Lockdown’s Last Lingerings - (Covid since L2 ended)

[Andy Hayter]

That agrees with my simplistic spreadsheet for how the virus develops.  

[chris p bacon]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

But watching TV news interviews it is also seemingly an educational thing with the white community, with those kess well educated being more informed from social media than reliable sources.

 

I have two ex work colleagues, both older generation and extremely nice people, but some how they have fallen into the conspiracy theory camp and both being very anti vaccine, one even calling it snake serum !!.

 

That is not always a good thing.

 

Sadly I heard earlier from someone who gets all their news from Facebook (and the like) is early 30's that he's not having it as it's made from pigs and doesn't want that in his body. I pointed out to him that all the vaccines are different being either genetically modified or some other way of manufacture so that no 2 are seemingly the same. He had no answer to this so just went down the "we're being given it to control us" cr@p.

 

This is someone who you would ostensibly think was white and educated.....sadly not it seems......

 

[KeithMacdonald]

3 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I suppose that all depends on how you look at it.

A large percentage of people from African backgrounds are frightened of being vaccinated. If you look into the underlying reasons why many are worried you will find that they know of direct cases of drug trials that went wrong. The developed world exploited them in the past. Do we not have a duty to try to make amends for these former practises now that we have a situation where we can help?

Bernard

 

Sadly, very true. The WHO polio vaccine is one well-documented example.

 

Quote

In a revealing comment, a CDC virologist involved with WHO and Gates Foundation in the Africa mass polio vaccination campaign, part of something called the Global Polio Eradication Initiative, admits the vaccine is creating significantly more cases of polio paralysis than the deceptively named “wild polio” disease. “We have now created more new emergences of the virus than we have stopped,” virologist Mark Pallansch of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention admitted. The Global Polio Eradication Initiative (GPEI) is a combined effort of the WHO, UNICEF, the U.S. CDC, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and Rotary International.

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/07/surging-cases-have-dashed-all-hope-polio-might-be-eradicated-2019

 

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/sep/02/vaccine-derived-polio-spreads-in-africa-after-defeat-of-wild-virus

 

Another cause of trouble is the lingering colonial attitude.

 

Quote

The head of the World Health Organization (WHO) has condemned as "racist" the comments by two French doctors who suggested a vaccine for the coronavirus could be tested in Africa. "Africa can't and won't be a testing ground for any vaccine," said Director General Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus. The doctors' remarks during a TV debate sparked outrage, and they were accused of treating Africans like "human guinea pigs".

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-52192184

 

There's also still a widespread belief that women were being sterilised by an anti-tetunus vaccine, despite it being "fact checked". Please note, I'm not saying I believe that, just that it's still a widespread belief.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tetanus-vaccine-sterilization/

[jonny777]

10 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

 

 

Speaking of that country, or at least Hong Kong, we had a member called Lantavian living there, in Lantau, obviously. With political suppression having been prevalent there recently, and him being apparently absent from RMweb, or at least the bits I frequent, I hope his role as a broadcast journalist hasn't resulted in him being 'leant upon'.

 

 

I remember him, and he made me very suspicious; mainly because the style of his replies and his wording was almost identical to many 'sudden' arrivals on other forums (mainly unmoderated political discussions where nothing was out of bounds) who we regulars began to suspect were government shills. 

 

I have searched through the initial Feb/Mar coronavirus thread, and all Lantavian's posts have been removed without trace.  I'm not sure whether other peoples' replies quoting him have also been removed, but I couldn't find any when I was looking; except for a reference to @Lantavian. 

 

You may think this is the idea of a madman (and you could be right), but before jumping to a guilty verdict please read up on the 77th Brigade. 

[hayfield]

59 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

That is not always a good thing.

 

Sadly I heard earlier from someone who gets all their news from Facebook (and the like) is early 30's that he's not having it as it's made from pigs and doesn't want that in his body. I pointed out to him that all the vaccines are different being either genetically modified or some other way of manufacture so that no 2 are seemingly the same. He had no answer to this so just went down the "we're being given it to control us" cr@p.

 

This is someone who you would ostensibly think was white and educated.....sadly not it seems......

 

 

Perhaps I should have put Fake in brackets in front of news. sadly whilst the internet can be used for good purposes, it also attracts those who wish to either steal or distribute falsehoods. Rather that someone told me down the pub, its I saw this on the internet.

[LBRJ]

I may have mentioned this before...

 

At and around Christmas 2019 I had a rather bad case of something, which I assumed was one of the myriad winter flu / other viruses that always seem to be about.

Something that now appears to be so like a medium level dose of Covid 19, I can only assume it was a dose of Covid

Wither that or there already was a Mk II version out there !

[john new]

50 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

I may have mentioned this before...

 

At and around Christmas 2019 I had a rather bad case of something, which I assumed was one of the myriad winter flu / other viruses that always seem to be about.

Something that now appears to be so like a medium level dose of Covid 19, I can only assume it was a dose of Covid

Wither that or there already was a Mk II version out there !

The problem with these mentions of similarity attacks is just that. For example, going back 3-4 years I caught a dose of something several times which to me coincided with working in our garage and I eventually decided it was caused by breathing in spores of a white mould* appearing in there. I also suffer from a reaction to some form of pollen during August and early September, but that is undoubtedly a form of hay-fever.  I now wear an industrial dust mask when working and tidying in the garage and have not had a repeat of that issue - it may be a coincidence but?

 

It is only this week that a new reptile species has been found. I am definitely not claiming I had COVID 3 years ago but the Doctor I saw at the time had no idea what I specifically had, dismissed my idea it was connected to interaction with the mould, and prescribed general stuff. However, since taking the mask precautions that particular debilitating bug has not recurred. (The hay-fever does annually!). I think, rather like the new reptile in Madagascar, scientists globally have no true idea of the number of these bugs and viruses that are out there are and so it is unsurprising that mystery variants and mutations occasionally arise. 

 

From what has been in the news the Wuhan market looked like a cauldron for spreading the something now identified as COVID from one or more infected people to others, but who took it into there in the first place and where from? That is what we hope WHO may find out, and that high-level international secrecy protocols won't prevent details being made public. 

 

* see this link about white mould issues

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by john new
added the asterisked footnote

[EddieB]

14 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Speaking of that country, or at least Hong Kong, we had a member called Lantavian living there, in Lantau, obviously. With political suppression having been prevalent there recently, and him being apparently absent from RMweb, or at least the bits I frequent, I hope his role as a broadcast journalist hasn't resulted in him being 'leant upon'.

As I understand it, he attracted a lot of adverse comments here, not without cause, and left in something of a huff, deleting all his posts.  I think it a little flattering to call him a “journalist”, as he was a news reader - a voice reading others’ material.  I say that because of the way he defended “official” sources, that appeared not to show depth of appreciation for “alternative facts”, in other words the challenges to the CCP party line that real journalists (even the BBC) are now uncovering and reporting.

[lapford34102]

26 minutes ago, john new said:

The problem with these mentions of similarity attacks is just that.

 The main flu variant for the 19/20 season was an H3 variant that could give rise to moderate/severe symptoms though if I've read the stuff correctly the vaccine was pretty effective. I too have heard tales of people suffering something over Xmas 19 and early 20 that could in hindsight have been covid. The problem is without a test to confirm we'll never know, it's simply speculation.

It really bothered me early on in the pandemic that they used the phrase "flu like sysmptoms" as I personally thought it sent a mixed message. The casual term "flu" now seems to cover a very wide of conditions though anyone who has had influenza knows it's no joke.

Also will we get a flu jab for 21/22 with the demand for Covid vaccines taking production capacity.

Stu

Edited February 6, 2021 by lapford34102
Missing the 9 key

[EddieB]

19 minutes ago, john new said:

 From what has been in the news the Wuhan market looked like a cauldron for spreading the something now identified as COVID from one or more infected people to others, but who took it into there in the first place and where from? That is what we hope WHO may find out, and that high-level international secrecy protocols won't prevent details being made public.

 

Among the live animals, the Wuhan wet market appears to have been well stocked with red herrings.  How it can be overlooked that the city hosts a secretive research facility, known to be investigating coronaviruses in bats?

 

Until the WHO appoints a new head, who is not a lackey of the CCP, don’t expect any earth-shattering revelations.

['CHARD]

11 minutes ago, EddieB said:

Among the live animals, the Wuhan wet market appears to have been well stocked with red herrings.  How it can be overlooked that the city hosts a secretive research facility, known to be investigating coronaviruses in bats?

 

Until the WHO appoints a new head, who is not a lackey of the CCP, don’t expect any earth-shattering revelations.

 

Nail. Please meet Head. 

[Pete the Elaner]

50 minutes ago, john new said:

 

From what has been in the news the Wuhan market looked like a cauldron for spreading the something now identified as COVID from one or more infected people to others, but who took it into there in the first place and where from? That is what we hope WHO may find out, and that high-level international secrecy protocols won't prevent details being made public. 

 

 

No news we get to see/hear is completely free from bias. It all needs to be taken with a pinch of salt & sanity checked.

 

I heard a report about the origin of the virus which stated that it couldn't possible be from a lab because it was too effective to have been a deliberate creation. Does that make any sense?

 

Could a virus as acutely transmissible as this be a product of chance developed in another creature?

Or is it a product of hard work to deliberately create something very effective? Investigating anti-virus products would require a potent anti-virus to work with.

Sanity check those 2 possibilities.

[APOLLO]

1 minute ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

No news we get to see/hear is completely free from bias. It all needs to be taken with a pinch of salt & sanity checked.

 

I heard a report about the origin of the virus which stated that it couldn't possible be from a lab because it was too effective to have been a deliberate creation. Does that make any sense?

 

Could a virus as acutely transmissible as this be a product of chance developed in another creature?

Or is it a product of hard work to deliberately create something very effective? Investigating anti-virus products would require a potent anti-virus to work with.

Sanity check those 2 possibilities.

 

Could be a bit of both, a meld of lab and natural, unplanned, a 1 in a billion chance.

 

I doubt we will ever find the true source, all evidence will have been scrupulously eliminated long ago if it was lab sourced.

 

We will have to learn to live with it, and it's present and future mutations, somehow.

 

I'll take the jab then I'm out. Getting lockdown crazy !!!!!!

 

Brit15

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, EddieB said:

Among the live animals, the Wuhan wet market appears to have been well stocked with red herrings.  How it can be overlooked that the city hosts a secretive research facility, known to be investigating coronaviruses in bats?

 

Until the WHO appoints a new head, who is not a lackey of the CCP, don’t expect any earth-shattering revelations.

 

Did it come from the Wuhan Virus research centre?

Possibly

Was it engineered in the Wuhan Virus research centre?

The scientific evidence suggests not.

 

DNA analysis of the virus shows a very close match (as in almost identical) to coronaviruses found in bats.  There are a few almost random differences.  This strongly suggests that the virus has evolved (mutated if you prefer) from a bat virus.

Gene engineering (as might be carried out in a research centre) would result in long strings in the DNA that were the same as the bat virus, then a sequence that was completely different (the engineered bit), then back to being the same as the bat virus.  This is a very different sequence to what has been found.

 

So it could be that the virus did emanate from the centre, but it is just as likely that someone could have imported it to Wuhan either with an infected animal or equally by being infected them self.   Wuhan is a major logistics hub and so lots of goods flow in and out and with that flow, lots of people driving trucks.  

[Bernard Lamb]

I have made the odd comment about the strange variation in the local figures, with some wards in the Borough being very high, while other have been exceptionally low.

With an interest in social and economic history I did a little experiment yesterday. With tongue very firmly in cheek. The latest figures were:-

The postcode for Waitrose 61 per 100k

Sainsburys 191

Tesco 241

The ward without a large supermarket situated between the last two 443

This last figure is causing quite some alarm within the community and a test centre was set up in the area last week.

Make of it what you will.

I could not possible comment, but I do know the area quite well.

Bernard  

 

[hayfield]

9 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

No news we get to see/hear is completely free from bias. It all needs to be taken with a pinch of salt & sanity checked.

 

I heard a report about the origin of the virus which stated that it couldn't possible be from a lab because it was too effective to have been a deliberate creation. Does that make any sense?

 

Could a virus as acutely transmissible as this be a product of chance developed in another creature?

Or is it a product of hard work to deliberately create something very effective? Investigating anti-virus products would require a potent anti-virus to work with.

Sanity check those 2 possibilities.

 

I think something escaping by accident from a research facility is far more likely than transmission from a wild animal from a district far away, if it were the latter surely there would also have been an outbreak in that district at the same time or earlier ? There have been mishaps from research centers all over the world, this one just got out of hand, or as we have seen normal bio protection has limited affect and the scientists just happened to stumble over something different to what they were used to.  

[hayfield]

20 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I have made the odd comment about the strange variation in the local figures, with some wards in the Borough being very high, while other have been exceptionally low.

With an interest in social and economic history I did a little experiment yesterday. With tongue very firmly in cheek. The latest figures were:-

The postcode for Waitrose 61 per 100k

Sainsburys 191

Tesco 241

The ward without a large supermarket situated between the last two 443

This last figure is causing quite some alarm within the community and a test centre was set up in the area last week.

Make of it what you will.

I could not possible comment, but I do know the area quite well.

Bernard  

 

 

Bernard

 

During the first two spikes I have noticed and reported that adherence to the rules were far less if not ignored by those lower in the social economic groups and younger people who were relatively unaffected by the infection.

 

The other aspects we know is, the virus spreads more in crowded environments, especially with multi generational living. Poor sanitary conditions also takes its toll, add in poor health and the virus takes advantage

 

This third spike managed to side step several of the steps which held back the first two spikes

[jonny777]

9 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

I think something escaping by accident from a research facility is far more likely than transmission from a wild animal from a district far away, 

 

Especially as, at the time of the initial 'transmission', the said animals were hibernating in caves for the winter, as they do every year. 

[Fenman]

Yes, I’m sure it was all part of a Vast Conspiracy. 

 

Now, where did I put my tinfoil hat...?

 

Paul

[Nearholmer]

38 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

With an interest in social and economic history I did a little experiment yesterday. With tongue very firmly in cheek

Your ‘experiment’ might highlight nothing more than where critical workers live and shop.

 

It is broadly a fact that work-related exposure to risk of catching the virus increases as you move down the prosperity ladder, and, of course, the probability that an individual will live in ‘close packed’ housing (flats, tight terraces etc) does too.

 

Of course, doctors, and possibly to some degree teachers, constitute exceptions to the general correlation, but it exists nevertheless.

 

 

[lapford34102]

38 minutes ago, hayfield said:

I think something escaping by accident from a research facility is far more likely than transmission from a wild animal from a district far away,

Think it's more likely that the virus emerged when different animal species that would have not normally met in the wild being brought together in another totally un-natural environment; i.e. the market.

Stu

[Nearholmer]

Getting back to Lantavian, I thought that he made some very sound points, challenging things that weren’t based on solid facts and sources, but that he/she did it in a clumsily annoying way that killed conversations stone-dead.

 

Now, that might have been trolling, and I accused them of that at one point, but it could have had one of several other causes:

 

- cultural difference, in that not all cultures tolerate the promulgation of obvious nonsense as much as British and American cultures do;

 

- the zealotry of youth. My nephew is a very intelligent (First and Masters in pure maths, PhD in philosophy) chap who is a ‘truth zealot’ - he will lay into people who talk nonsense quite savagely, and some of his mates are the same. They are of a generation who are sick to death of seeing their peers steeped in ‘Facebook nonsense’;

 

- mild autism.

[Hobby]

35 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

Especially as, at the time of the initial 'transmission', the said animals were hibernating in caves for the winter, as they do every year. 

 

"The strongest evidence of the virus’s origin points to a section of the Huanan open-air market where more than 75 species of stressed wildlife were stacked in wire cages and slaughtered on-site for buyers. “You almost couldn’t design a more perfect setting for the transmission of disease,” says Teresa Telecky, HSI vice president for wildlife. “Animals are crowded together and you have all these fluids—blood, saliva, feces.” After the government closed the market, tests revealed the virus in the wildlife section. Two-thirds of the 41 earliest identified cases had direct ties to that part of the market. Most of the rest had indirect ties (for example, a woman married to a man who worked there). Scientists are searching for the “intermediate host” mammal that carried the virus from bats to Wuhan. In 2002, the SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) epide"mic began when civets infected with a closely related bat coronavirus brought it to a wildlife market in South China.

https://www.humanesociety.org/news/what-you-need-know-about-wildlife-markets-and-covid-19

 

Of course I can't confirm the validity or otherwise but it makes as much sense as the posts which insist it's man made in the lab (i.e. "The Chinese are out to get us" theory)... But until (if) there is a true independent report done on it we'll never know for sure... This may be of interest too, though again I can't confirm it's accuracy...

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK114494/

[Nearholmer]

8 minutes ago, Hobby said:

But until (if) there is a true independent report done on it we'll never know for sure... This

Precisely.

 

And, we either live comfortably with the uncertainty/ignorance that implies, or fill the vacuum with speculation which inevitably inflates to become pure nonsense.

 

Personally, I think that remaining knowingly ignorant will serve us better than accidentally starting QAnon-2.1.

[Hobby]

10 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

And, we either live comfortably with the uncertainty/ignorance that implies, or fill the vacuum with speculation which inevitably inflates to become pure nonsense.

 

For many people that's not an option. The "there has to be someone to blame" syndrome... Which usually means that people who were doing their best but didn't sort it get castigated, even though those doing the castigating couldn't have done any better... We've seen it already all over social media including this thread...

Edited February 7, 2021 by Hobby