Lockdown’s Last Lingerings - (Covid since L2 ended)

[John M Upton]

Needless to say the boss of Weatherspoons has now resurfaced and demanded pubs reopen with non essential shops.

 

Nothing to do with lining his pockets I am sure....

[Hobby]

8 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

July  last year. Melbourne had up to 700 new cases a day, UK had  as few as 400. Melbourne locked down and did the above and got the numbers down to zero. The UK could have done it then too.

 

I would respectfully suggest that we couldn't have done that. We've discussed this before, Monkey, the circumstances of the UK are nothing like that of sections of Aus, both from population density/movement/work and attitudes of the population in a small crowded island like ours. Had our population had a similar "attitude" (wrong word, but it'll do) to those countries such as Japan and other Far East countries then perhaps we could have but for reasons peculiar to Western Europe (and the USA) that was never going to happen. 

 

Please stop comparing apples and pears and suggesting they are the same!

[Hobby]

2 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Needless to say the boss of Weatherspoons has now resurfaced and demanded pubs reopen with non essential shops.

 

You really don't like him, do you...

 

I think we've all got the message now... 

[Nearholmer]

8 hours ago, LBRJ said:

All of those used to use the pub on the end of my street most days....

Now they cant

so they do whatever...

which will often be far worse from a COVID spreading point of view....

Are you serious, or are you winding us up, or being a bit loose with the actuality?

 

I ask, because, as I’m sure you know, right now, all these socialites should be staying at home, not mixing between households.

 

My question is a genuine one, because it seemed to me that last year there were very different attitudes and levels of adherence to distancing rules in different places.

[beast66606]

5 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Needless to say the boss of Weatherspoons has now resurfaced and demanded pubs reopen with non essential shops.

 

Nothing to do with lining his pockets I am sure....

 

Probably doesn't care about the staff that aren't being paid either - or suppliers who he currently doesn't need and are therefore struggling to stay in business etc. etc.

 

 

[John Harris]

13 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

I would respectfully suggest that we couldn't have done that. We've discussed this before, Monkey, the circumstances of the UK are nothing like that of sections of Aus, both from population density/movement/work and attitudes of the population in a small crowded island like ours. Had our population had a similar "attitude" (wrong word, but it'll do) to those countries such as Japan and other Far East countries then perhaps we could have but for reasons peculiar to Western Europe (and the USA) that was never going to happen. 

 

Please stop comparing apples and pears and suggesting they are the same!

 

Regarding the attitudes to 'lockdown' in Australia, there was an illuminating piece on the BBC last night, albeit nothing to do with Covid.

 

In Queensland, that was the example quoted, police do vehicle checks where everyone on a particular road is stopped and breathalysed.  On average a motorist in Queensland get stopped twice a year, as a comparison I've driven for over 40 years in the UK and I was stopped once in a "routine vehicle check". 

 

It suggests, as Hobby asserts, that things are very different in Australia.

 

jch  

[beast66606]

7 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Are you serious, or are you winding us up, or being a bit loose with the actuality?

 

I ask, because, as I’m sure you know, right now, all these socialites should be staying at home, not mixing between households.

 

My question is a genuine one, because it seemed to me that last year there were very different attitudes and levels of adherence to distancing rules in different places.

 

Except when shopping, as we all know the virus does not transmit when shopping, or working, or volunteering, or .... - the virus is clever enough to know when you are following a guideline activity and it will stay clear, break the guideline and you're done for.

 

 

[snitchthebudgie]

26 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Needless to say the boss of Weatherspoons has now resurfaced and demanded pubs reopen with non essential shops.

 

Nothing to do with lining his pockets I am sure....

 

At the risk of being overly political, he's probably sponsoring 63 Tory MP's.  Hat, coat, and back to the loft!

[Pete the Elaner]

15 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

The evidence suggests that it reduces the chances of passing it on quite significantly.

 

Yes, but no details of this, probably because it is not fully understood.

It is likely that the vaccine reduces the time it takes for the virus to get beaten once it enters the body.

[Hobby]

4 minutes ago, snitchthebudgie said:

At the risk of being overly political, he's probably sponsoring 63 Tory MP's.  Hat, coat, and back to the loft!

 

So what, my union is probably sponsoring several hundred! 

 

I have no strong feelings one way of the other about him, he's just doing what you'd expect of a person in his position and no different, though from opposite sides, as my union.

[beast66606]

7 minutes ago, snitchthebudgie said:

 

At the risk of being overly political, he's probably sponsoring 63 Tory MP's.  Hat, coat, and back to the loft!

 

Like to back that up with some direct links to facts ? sadly there's no vaccine for (any) derangement syndrome yet.

[Nearholmer]

16 minutes ago, beast66606 said:

Except when shopping, as we all know the virus does not transmit when shopping, or working, or volunteering, or .... - the virus is clever enough to know when you are following a guideline activity and it will stay clear, break the guideline and you're done for.

Do you not get the “we can afford a certain amount of transmission, but no more, so can afford certain activities, but no more” logic?

[Not Jeremy]

2 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Do you not get the “we can afford a certain amount of transmission, but no more, so can afford certain activities, but no more” logic?

 

Just where is that "irritatingly sanctimonious" button when you need it?

[Pete the Elaner]

2 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Do you not get the “we can afford a certain amount of transmission, but no more, so can afford certain activities, but no more” logic?

 

Or to put it another way...

 

We can manage without pubs or that new bit of hifi that we would really like. We can also manage for a few months without new clothes by washing what we already have. As an emergency measure, these can all close temporarily.

 

We can't manage without a supply of food. Online shopping helps but it still involves having people walking around a shop to make up the orders & the capacity is not there for everybody to shop this way.

Keeping food shops open is a necessity.

[hayfield]

14 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Is there really a lot of clamouring from the hospitality sector about opening up - or is it the media pushing them to say so (ie biased reporting just to make a story).

I get the feeling it is the latter, though obviously, ask a landlord about it and he will state his case, which makes an ideal spot for the broadcast.

 

 

I think there are a lot of businesses out there who are desperate to start working again, not just the hospitality sector. I thinh many would view the survival of their businesses are as equally important as children's education, with most carrying far less covid transmission risk than schools or collages 

 

As for the hospitality sector. This is a massive sector but the risk of covid transmission varies greatly from limited to high risk. In my opinion it will have to be split up into smaller sections allowing lower risk operations to operate first, but resist operations which could be see as medium to super spreaders and those which cause concern where large groups are likely to form

[boxbrownie]

9 hours ago, LBRJ said:

 

The only real clamouring as you put it that I hear of is from the "older generation" - Its where they go to see their friends and talk about whatever they talk about, and be in a social environment.

 

 

 

Almost every night on the local news there are “representatives” from the hospitality trade saying they are a special case and are suffering or about to close/collapse and they should be allowed to open because they spent so much money making the venues Covid safe........during the easing of restrictions down here we had a sudden influx of “holiday makers/customers” (most of whom had come down speculating they would be able to find accommodation) at pubs and it was frightening to see the groups standing on the pavements outside drinking, maybe the “older generation” were inside sitting down but outside it was young and middle aged making merry.

[Neil]

33 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

So what, my union is probably sponsoring several hundred! 

 

I have no strong feelings one way of the other about him, he's just doing what you'd expect of a person in his position and no different, though from opposite sides, as my union.

 

There is a significant difference, your union will have the best interests of thousands of members at it's heart, Tim Martin just one.

[Nearholmer]

10 minutes ago, hayfield said:

In my opinion it will have to be split up into smaller sections allowing lower risk operations to operate first

Must be the case. Last summer, plenty of cafes did a good job serving out of windows/hatches to customers who were outside and well-separated, which is about as far from a crowded city centre pub in risk terms as you can imagine.

[Hobby]

So an obvious question (to David), where were the police, also why did the publican allow it? Our local bobbies put a stop to that when we were in tier 2 (I expect you were 1, though there was nothing to stop the local force/publicans doing the same).

 

 

On a separate note:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/how-the-covid-pandemic-could-end-–-and-what-will-make-it-happen-faster/ar-BB1dGXYY?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBoPWjQ

Edited February 15, 2021 by Hobby

[beast66606]

Just now, Nearholmer said:

Do you not get the “we can afford a certain amount of transmission, but no more, so can afford certain activities, but no more” logic?

Rude.

 

So how much transmission is allowed ? and where is this documented ? - I need to check if my wife is on the expendable occupation list.

 

Or is it actually that the aim is to reduce overall transmission across the board by encouraging / forcing social distancing, whether at work or not while accepting that some activities must continue.

 

[Hobby]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

 

There is a significant difference, your union will have the best interests of thousands of members at it's heart,

 

 

That's the funniest post I've read all day!! You've read too much of their propaganda! They have their uses, but the majority of those in charge are in there for political purposes, just the same as Tim and his fellow capitalists...

[boxbrownie]

2 minutes ago, Hobby said:

So an obvious question, where were the police, also why did the publican allow it? Our local bobbies put a stop to that when we were in tier 2 (I expect you were 1, though there was nothing to stop the local force/publicans doing the same).

 

 

On a separate note:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/how-the-covid-pandemic-could-end-–-and-what-will-make-it-happen-faster/ar-BB1dGXYY?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBoPWjQ

If your reacting to my post, the Police are miles away........in our little “fishing port” there is a police station which is now permanently staffed by the NHS nurses and carers (as the doctors surgery has no room) there is a Police Connect van going green in the car park and the only regular “patrols” we have is the local harbour authority parking attendants walking around, there is one hell of a shortage of police numbers down here I am afraid.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

 

I would respectfully suggest that we couldn't have done that. We've discussed this before, Monkey, the circumstances of the UK are nothing like that of sections of Aus, both from population density/movement/work and attitudes of the population in a small crowded island like ours. Had our population had a similar "attitude" (wrong word, but it'll do) to those countries such as Japan and other Far East countries then perhaps we could have but for reasons peculiar to Western Europe (and the USA) that was never going to happen. 

 

Please stop comparing apples and pears and suggesting they are the same!

 

The key difference would be leadership. Population density is misleading, overall Australia has a density of 3.2 people per square km, the UK 275 per square km. However if you look at the cities where the majority live places like Sydney come in at 430 people per square km. We could have done things differently and saved a whole world of pain: the high number (100,000+) of deaths wasn't inevitable. I frankly get cheesed off when excuses are made for others who should take responsibility for their actions.

 

[Hobby]

 

8 minutes ago, Neil said:

 

The key difference would be leadership. Population density is misleading, overall Australia has a density of 3.2 people per square km, the UK 275 per square km. However if you look at the cities where the majority live places like Sydney come in at 430 people per square km. We could have done things differently and saved a whole world of pain: the high number (100,000+) of deaths wasn't inevitable. I frankly get cheesed off when excuses are made for others who should take responsibility for their actions.

 

 

Population density is relevant, as pointed out in previous posts many pages ago we have many centres of large populations all very small distances from each other, several miles rather than hundreds/thousands of miles so a direct comparison with Sydney is simply not relevant. I would agree with your last sentence, however not the first, the leadership is only one part, people's attitudes (eg instead of using someone as an excuse to break the rules do the opposite and say he shouldn't have done that therefore I won't - something not seen in certain sections of the UK populace), ethnicity and many other things come into play and where there is a large population crammed into a small space and they don't want to play ball for whatever reason you get what's happened in the UK.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Hobby

[jonny777]

In my opinion, and hopefully not too political, the hospitality/catering/holiday sectors form a large section of the UK economy, ever since our industrial base was dismantled and we chose to rely on cheap (but increasingly unreliable) imports from areas of the world where wages and working conditions were very poor. 

 

Therefore, I presume, unless we are going to encourage the use of British made products across the board, we are going to have to suffer the continued downturn of an economy based mainly on pubs, restaurants and fast food joints.