AMJ Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 17 hours ago, ClikC said: Class 81 I'd be rather surprised if that took to the rails as Bachmann has done the 85. When you look at the dimensions of classes 81-85 they could probably be modelled using the same mechanicals as the 85 with a new body bogie side frames 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo675 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 19 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: I think we're looking at a number of different things here. What we don't know is if the 'Atholl' was toe in the water test for a production method as well as a nostalgia trip (of a sort)? Similarly we don't know to what extent dies cast technology has changed but in view of the fact that the Chinese seem to be rather good at it for small parts for the motor industry. (e.g. as from a factory in the Kader group) it would appear to be readily adaptable to model railway use but no doubt at a cost. I suspect that what matters is going to be customer acceptance with past horror stories of mazak failure in our minds plus the impact it might or might not have on price. But one things we should not overlook is that there are railway models coming out of China with diecast driving wheels and when I asked another UK 'manufacturer' about the quality of the metal being used for that purpose I was told that they have in place specifications and assurance processes to ensure that the correct material is used. Hi Mike, Interesting point there, is there any truth that when in Margate Hornby used their injection moulding machines to produce plastic parts and tooling for the automotive industry such as door handles and bits of dashboard as extra income. I ask as it was something once mentioned to me years ago which seemed reasonable regarding the skills and equipment in their factory. Gibbo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClikC Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, AMJ said: I'd be rather surprised if that took to the rails as Bachmann has done the 85. When you look at the dimensions of classes 81-85 they could probably be modelled using the same mechanicals as the 85 with a new body bogie side frames We wondered this when the 85 first appeared, with wild speculation that an 86 and or an 81 may soon appear, instead we got the class 90 from Bachmann and the 87 from Hornby. Technically, yes you could just change the body of the 85 to an 81. But, there are differences between the bogies on 81 and 86, namely to do with cable and hose routing. Regardless of people’s personal views on if that would constitute a valid criticism, it would still be an error. I strongly suspect caution is being excised in all areas OHLE, following the fallout of the Heljan 86/2, which at the time threatened Heljan never making another AC electric locomotive again. Luckily, it seems that last part has not become true, and we have the 86/0’s coming next year and even the possibility of retooled 86/2’s. (Lord knows how my credit card will survive 2021.) OHLE modelling has always suffered from an odd perversion of the ‘Chicken and the Egg’ concept. No one makes the OHLE infrastructure, so no one makes OHLE locomotives, because no one makes OHLE locomotives, no one makes OHLE infrastructure. But, this is changing. Dare I say it but we’ve _____ had it __ good. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said: AIUI, diecast moulds are cheaper to make than those for plastic injection moulding (which have to withstand higher pressures) but the production process is slower, which isn't really an issue with small runs. It may also be that, if the intention is to produce only a small quantity of castings, moulds can be made from cheaper, more easily worked, materials that wear out faster. That was my thinking, they are effectively charging £60 for a body (at RRP, we don't know if the dealer margin was less). So £60x500 is £30000 which I'd expect would comfortably cover costs if the cast wasn't designed to last for thousands of models. I was interested to read in BRM (and apologies if this is old news) that the steampunk range was done with resin bodies to reduce investment, which adds to my thoughts they were a cheap dangling carrot. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said: I was told that they have in place specifications and assurance processes to ensure that the correct material is used I think that despite a lot of the mazak rot sufferers being out of warranty and therefore not being eligible for replacement (i.e. not necessarily directly costing anybody but the customer) I think the negativity around it would have given the manufacturers enough of a kick to make sure that is the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted December 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said: when I asked another UK 'manufacturer' about the quality of the metal being used for that purpose I was told that they have in place specifications and assurance processes to ensure that the correct material is used. Well yes, they all say that; the reality can be somewhat different (from direct personal experience in my day job). Personally I see diecast bodies as a retrograde step by and large (can be a necessary evil on small locos for adhesion weight) so I'm hoping they're not going to see widescale use. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, spamcan61 said: Well yes, they all say that; the reality can be somewhat different (from direct personal experience in my day job). Personally I see diecast bodies as a retrograde step by and large (can be a necessary evil on small locos for adhesion weight) so I'm hoping they're not going to see widescale use. And I expect those assurances could have been made before the problem but surely (as per my last post) having been burnt by this in one way or another they will be extra careful? I also know from my work that telling people what to do/what you expect and getting it are too different things, but normally if problems have happened then suppliers tend to be extra careful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockalaucher101 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, TomScrut said: I think that despite a lot of the mazak rot sufferers being out of warranty and therefore not being eligible for replacement (i.e. not necessarily directly costing anybody but the customer) I think the negativity around it would have given the manufacturers enough of a kick to make sure that is the case. You mentioning mazak rot has just got me thinking... I think we are getting a retool on the rebuilt merchant navy. Why? Because I just bought one... Set to arrive on the 6th, one day after the reveal. Calling it now Edited December 31, 2020 by Rockalaucher101 more sods law discovered 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Rockalaucher101 said: You mentioning mazak rot has just got me thinking... I think we are getting a retool on the rebuilt merchant navy. Why? Because I just bought one... Set to arrive on the 6th, one day after the reveal. Calling it now Hopefully, if they do, there'll be at least one new tender and locos numbered between 35001 and 35010, so we can all have a bit of a change from the alternating "one loco, two tenders" cycle which got stale for me several years ago. John 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockalaucher101 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: Hopefully, if they do, there'll be at least one new tender and locos numbered between 35001 and 35010, so we can all have a bit of a change from the alternating "one loco, two tenders" cycle which got stale for me several years ago. John I agree and you know why we're going to get the missing tender types? Because the one I've ordered is getting it's tender cut up to represent the 5250 gallon type. Sometimes you need to invoke sods law to get something done 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2020 I do not think there is any inherent superiority in die cast metal over plastic or the other way around. This harks back 60+ years to the Hornby Dublo/Rovex Triang rivalry. Even HD used plastic for locos by the 60s, alongside diecast. There is a distinct weight advantage to diecast, especially for smaller locos and it is my view that the new 78xxx will benefit greatly from it. I see no advantage in diecast as a marketing exercise, for diecast’s sake, any more than I would for plastic, brass, unobtainium; in a perfect world, a production engineer should be able to choose freely to establish the best compromise (and it’s always a compromise) available between materials, availability, unit cost, skillsets within the workforce and probably a load of other things I don’t know about; I’m not a production engineer. And the world is imperfect, so our production engineer is subject to the demands of marketing, company policy, capital, material availability and it’s fluctuating cost, some of which cannot be accurately predicted at the tome that his decision is made. Production engineers get paid more than me, but I’m glad I’m not one... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Downer said: There were less than fifteen J21s left in 1955. Okay... fair enough but that was a stupid decision at the time. Gorgeous kit thats just like J25. So Hornby should make it anyway... (Thats my normal stance in its much reduced version! ) Edited December 31, 2020 by The Black Hat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted December 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2020 3 hours ago, TomScrut said: And I expect those assurances could have been made before the problem but surely (as per my last post) having been burnt by this in one way or another they will be extra careful? I also know from my work that telling people what to do/what you expect and getting it are too different things, but normally if problems have happened then suppliers tend to be extra careful. Happens in the big world to, a few years back several mainline steam locos were sidelined due to incorrect spec copper rivets iirc. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Im hoping they do some for TTS soundfiles. A railroad class 25 with a 25 TTS soundfile would be great as it could be used with 24 26 and 27 as well A railroad 121/122 with TTs would be great also as it could be used with a few other first gen dmus 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, The Johnster said: I do not think there is any inherent superiority in die cast metal over plastic or the other way around. It might just be how they have opted to finish it, but Duchess Of Atholl seems to have a nicer paint finish than the plastic class mates IMO. But that might be nothing to do with the material. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Train wasp Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) Still hoping for Bulleid W/C 34105 Swanage or Urie S15 in BR black 30506 or 499 in LSWR colours with stove pipe chimney. Edited December 31, 2020 by Train wasp 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted December 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2020 10 hours ago, Downer said: There were less than fifteen J21s left in 1955. But some did survive to 1959, I think, and there is one "preserved" (sort of). It's also an ideal companion to the G5. There were certainly more of these in 1955 than the W1 or P2… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Train wasp said: Still hoping for Bulleid W/C 34105 Swanage or Urie S15 in BR black 30506 or 499 in LSWR colours with stove pipe chimney. Following on from that, all but a handful of wide-cab non-rebuilt WCs ended up with cut-down 4500 gallon tenders, a combination Hornby have never produced. They've also yet to do 34011/43/65 (post-1952) or any of the last ten as-built with the BR pattern ashpans as later also fitted to the rebuilt locos. My pick would be 34106 'Lydford' which seemed to turn up every time I went spotting! John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 10 hours ago, Downer said: There were less than fifteen J21s left in 1955. There were just 3 Adams radials in 1955 being used on a very specific branch line, didn't stop Hornby AND Oxford Rail doing them... You know what really grinds my gears? When a suggestions gets poo-pooed because a class didn't even last into the BR period... Balls to the BR era I say :p It never seems to be applied in reverse though, 9Fs for example, pretty limited life span outside of preservation, and yet... 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo675 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said: There were just 3 Adams radials in 1955 being used on a very specific branch line, didn't stop Hornby AND Oxford Rail doing them... You know what really grinds my gears? When a suggestions gets poo-pooed because a class didn't even last into the BR period... Balls to the BR era I say :p It never seems to be applied in reverse though, 9Fs for example, pretty limited life span outside of preservation, and yet... Hi Mr Giraffe, Quite right ! I want one of these: Gibbo. 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, GreenGiraffe22 said: There were just 3 Adams radials in 1955 being used on a very specific branch line, didn't stop Hornby AND Oxford Rail doing them... You know what really grinds my gears? When a suggestions gets poo-pooed because a class didn't even last into the BR period... Balls to the BR era I say :p It never seems to be applied in reverse though, 9Fs for example, pretty limited life span outside of preservation, and yet... Absolutely, how many liveries did Rocket get. Certainly didn't make it into BR livery. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, rovex said: Absolutely, how many liveries did Rocket get. Certainly didn't make it into BR livery. It skipped a few and ended up in Network Rail yellow............... 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pmorgancym Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Has to be a Blue Pullman HST 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Gibbo675 said: Hi Mr Giraffe, Quite right ! I want one of these: Gibbo. Ah but I think the later development of the type would be much more useful. You can never have enough North Eastern 0-6-0s.... Taken in the early seventies before Locomotion and Derwent were moved away from their long-time use as the ultimate DMU crash barrier. Maybe about 1974 when I was travelling by train between Hartlepool and Darlington on a fairly regular basis. Les 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutyDruid Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 3 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said: There were just 3 Adams radials in 1955 being used on a very specific branch line, didn't stop Hornby AND Oxford Rail doing them... You know what really grinds my gears? When a suggestions gets poo-pooed because a class didn't even last into the BR period... Balls to the BR era I say :p It never seems to be applied in reverse though, 9Fs for example, pretty limited life span outside of preservation, and yet... As it's New Years Eve and others are doing it, I want a model of one of my wife's ancestor's engine. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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