Track cleaning wagons - what do you think? Which works?

[SamThomas]

7 hours ago, locomad2 said:

 

 

Exactly the same happened to us, currently on 7th layout (75 yards of OO track) having had a layouts for over 50 years. 

 

So gone though all the track cleaning "solutions", track cleaning wagons, rubbers, HF cleaners, wet & dry etc etc. Each layout got bigger more time spent cleaning track.

 

Track magic worked, providing track was clean at first, plus other stuff flat, live frogs, good connections etc etc.

 

Then somehow misslay the bottle, then told that "ATF" "Automatic Transmission Fluid was just as good, stuff found in car power steering so tried that.

 

And it works, its available, cheap, you only need a dab, trackcleaning almost a thing of the past and everything seems to work better

I've heard about using ATF, but reluctant to try it.

 

[Andymsa]

8 hours ago, locomad2 said:

 

 

Exactly the same happened to us, currently on 7th layout (75 yards of OO track) having had a layouts for over 50 years. 

 

So gone though all the track cleaning "solutions", track cleaning wagons, rubbers, HF cleaners, wet & dry etc etc. Each layout got bigger more time spent cleaning track.

 

Track magic worked, providing track was clean at first, plus other stuff flat, live frogs, good connections etc etc.

 

Then somehow misslay the bottle, then told that "ATF" "Automatic Transmission Fluid was just as good, stuff found in car power steering so tried that.

 

And it works, its available, cheap, you only need a dab, trackcleaning almost a thing of the past and everything seems to work better

 

track magic is a petroleum based product hence why it smells like lighter fluid, also ATF is oil based, both of these will affect locos fitted with traction tyres ie rubber and oil don’t mix. The reason why these products work is that a protective layer is placed on the rail head stopping oxidation and the black crud build up. I’m not going into the science of this black art as it’s covered in dept elsewhere on the forum.

[russ p]

8 hours ago, locomad2 said:

 

 

Exactly the same happened to us, currently on 7th layout (75 yards of OO track) having had a layouts for over 50 years. 

 

So gone though all the track cleaning "solutions", track cleaning wagons, rubbers, HF cleaners, wet & dry etc etc. Each layout got bigger more time spent cleaning track.

 

Track magic worked, providing track was clean at first, plus other stuff flat, live frogs, good connections etc etc.

 

Then somehow misslay the bottle, then told that "ATF" "Automatic Transmission Fluid was just as good, stuff found in car power steering so tried that.

 

And it works, its available, cheap, you only need a dab, trackcleaning almost a thing of the past and everything seems to work better

 

Doesn't ATF discolour ballast and smell? 

I'm wondering if one of those old triang cleaning wagons with this stuff in would work 

[boxbrownie]

36 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Doesn't ATF discolour ballast and smell? 

I'm wondering if one of those old triang cleaning wagons with this stuff in would work 

TBH I wouldn’t want to use ATF as at work when working with any lubrication oil gloves were required as it could over time cause eczema, I know we wouldn’t use much but it does smell ‘orrible as well and having a red dye could after time tint ballast.

[RobinofLoxley]

The thing about using material intended for another use is that it may contain stuff you don't want as well as the functional stuff. You are better off with something proprietary in a situation like this; however the possibility remains that the dedicated material is actually just something else relabelled.

[RobinofLoxley]

3 hours ago, Andymsa said:

 I’m not going into the science of this black art 

Lol Andy 

[locomad2]

Well I've heard all the advantages and disadvantages of ATF, almost daily my layout is in use and it seems to work but it's just a dab on a piece of track, then an engine runs it in (approx 15' x 10' oval). As for attacking rubber plent of "O" rings in my steering rake.

 

However I still occasionally use

 

 

My favourite it's a copy of the infamous Hornby dublo track cleaner, it tatty but it works, use to use "meths" but now its IPA. The original fag filters are hard to find so just use real ones and ignore the health warning. You don't have to replace the filters just cut off dirty ends with a sharp knife and push rest of filter though

 

For a bit more tougher jobs this 

 

Simple 600 wet and dry stuck under some foam under a HD weltrol, bit of weight dragged around with the track clean wagon 

 

For even tougher jobs try this

 

Kneelled wheels of standard triang bogie chassis, just run at at high speed and let it slip, acts like a file and grinds the the dirt off  course you have to keep the wheels clean but lot easier 

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 23/12/2021 at 01:25, locomad2 said:

Then somehow misslay the bottle, then told that "ATF" "Automatic Transmission Fluid was just as good, stuff found in car power steering so tried that.

So any old bottle from Halfords will work?

I'm always up for trying new things.

[locomad2]

1 minute ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

So any old bottle from Halfords will work?

I'm always up for trying new things.

Don't even need to do that, just open the top of the power steering bottle in the car, dab a bit on some tinfoil or old bottle top and dab a bit on the track, then run a loco over it couple of times spreading it along the track.

 

Other oil tips try "airline 10" used for lubrication of air tools, very fine idea for general lubrication about £5 for 5 litres, general motor oil synthetic idea for gears, "pin & axle" used for 5th wheel tractors, excellent grease for metal gears dirt cheap.

 

All above used in last 10 years, transfer to those little jars you get jam in at morning breakfast in hotels or buy jars at crapland range etc 20 for a £1, I don't use Peco lube it just causes electrolite rot between different metals

[stewartingram]

Just a word of caution with ATF.

I've run Rover 800 & 75 autos for many years. Always had to be cautious about the type of ATF in the boxes, as the "normal" type from various manufaturers destroys the gearbox (over a period of time). Not sure of the exact fault, but something to do with attacking non-metallic parts inside. We've always had to use specific (& hard to find/more expensive) types of fluid. It isn't a con to sell the "special brew", I have personally experienced the fault and know of others through the owners clubs. I would be very hesitant about using the normal ATF for track cleaning because of this, let alone the expensive variety.

Non scientific I know, but just saying....

Edited December 30, 2021 by stewartingram

[SamThomas]

3 hours ago, locomad2 said:

Don't even need to do that, just open the top of the power steering bottle in the car, dab a bit on some tinfoil or old bottle top and dab a bit on the track, then run a loco over it couple of times spreading it along the track.

 

Unless the fluid is fresh it will have contaminatates mixed in it.

 

I can't believe how cheapskate some peopl can be - they spend a lot of money on things you can see like locomotives & rolling stock but little on what you can't see like wiring & some track cleaning/maintenence stuff. I just don't understand the logic.

[locomad2]

28 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Unless the fluid is fresh it will have contaminatates mixed in it.

 

I can't believe how cheapskate some peopl can be - they spend a lot of money on things you can see like locomotives & rolling stock but little on what you can't see like wiring & some track cleaning/maintenence stuff. I just don't understand the logic.

 

Well it seems to work, we are talking about a dab probably no more a tenth of a ml blob about 1mm in diameter. 

 

It's been discussed in previous posts, most likely works as it stops peco nickel silver rails from oxidation, brand new its clean but after a few years goes green, very old stuff say 50 years old very green, bit like 2p's which I believe have nickel in too.

 

As for spending money just because it costs a lot doesn't mean its has any quality, my late father spent a lot of money buying so called "acid free paper" wrapping his collection of O gauge stock only for us to find it all went rusty while in contact with "acid free paper". Tests on the paper showed it was more acid than ordinary newspaper 

[SamThomas]

9 hours ago, locomad2 said:

 

As for spending money just because it costs a lot doesn't mean its has any quality, my late father spent a lot of money buying so called "acid free paper" wrapping his collection of O gauge stock only for us to find it all went rusty while in contact with "acid free paper". Tests on the paper showed it was more acid than ordinary newspaper 

I did not say that at all - I said a little money.

 

Often, I meet people who have invested many 1,000's of pounds on their locomotives, rolling stock & track, but won't (particually with DCC) spend twenty quid or so on a couple of rolls of new cable, prefering to go (as our North American friends call it) dumpster diving **. Then, they wonder why their £200 locomotive launched itself.

 

** Cue someone who found a couple of new or part full coils of cable from a shopfit or something.

[Andymsa]

 

found this recently uploaded to YouTube and certainly very scientific, especially after a debate  by a user who wanted such evidence. The video comprises of two elements cleaning and keeping things running. The first part gives the science behind the using certain types of cleaners and should be watched with the other video mentioned. The second part on the grease is very good and it’s use should be weighed up against what is lost, I did note no mention of its effects on rubber traction tyres degradation.

[boxbrownie]

59 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

 

found this recently uploaded to YouTube and certainly very scientific, especially after a debate  by a user who wanted such evidence. The video comprises of two elements cleaning and keeping things running. The first part gives the science behind the using certain types of cleaners and should be watched with the other video mentioned. The second part on the grease is very good and it’s use should be weighed up against what is lost, I did note no mention of its effects on rubber traction tyres degradation.

Very interesting and actually a balanced test…..but I am going to wait until I am having issues before paying £37 for a small pot of the stuff (Amazon)  When our Gentleman tester bought it it appears to be only about £6 a pot……did somebody find a gold mine or what? 

Edited January 16, 2022 by boxbrownie

[Andymsa]

13 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Very interesting and actually a balanced test…..but I am going to wait until I am having issues before paying £37 for a small pot of the stuff (Amazon)  When our Gentleman tester bought it it appears to be only about £6 a pot……did somebody find a gold mine or what? 

I looked at this stuff sometime ago, it’s an American product and although cheep in the USA it does appear it’s sold at a premium here. What I thought most interesting was the first part of the video, and if you look at the list of products IPA is well down it for the best product to clean with. Also as I have been saying for some time using any sort of abrasive on the rail is bad which is stated in the video

[boxbrownie]

1 minute ago, Andymsa said:

I looked at this stuff sometime ago, it’s an American product and although cheep in the USA it does appear it’s sold at a premium here. What I thought most interesting was the first part of the video, and if you look at the list of products IPA is well down it for the best product to clean with. Also as I have been saying for some time using any sort of abrasive on the rail is bad which is stated in the video

Indeed, well I have been using Deluxe Material Track Magic and I think that smells of lighter fluid/kerosene a bit so might well be in the good area as well, seems to work but then maybe it does or maybe it doesn’t or maybe it’s black magic voodoo juice? 

[Chrisr40]

Can I add Goo Gone to the list of suggestions ? American product I believe, used on Everard Junction I seem to recall. Smells fruity does a good job but whatever you do don't drink it or rub it into your eyes.

[boxbrownie]

But you can buy two pots in the US via Amazon for $16………

https://www.amazon.com/2-ounce-NO-OX-ID-Special-Electrical-Contact/dp/B06Y6JSCZ3/ref=sr_1_3?crid=WT9IRXY44DUP&keywords=no-ox-id&qid=1642421330&sprefix=No-ox%2Caps%2C134&sr=8-3

[locomad2]

On 17/01/2022 at 12:24, boxbrownie said:

But you can buy two pots in the US via Amazon for $16………

https://www.amazon.com/2-ounce-NO-OX-ID-Special-Electrical-Contact/dp/B06Y6JSCZ3/ref=sr_1_3?crid=WT9IRXY44DUP&keywords=no-ox-id&qid=1642421330&sprefix=No-ox%2Caps%2C134&sr=8-3

 

Wonder if this stuff is very much like "Copper grease" used in car repairs for brake pin parts and battery terminals. Very cheap and available (sold in tubes in Hellfords), also used on bikes for inner cables 

 

I've used it in model railways on points on the inside rail contacts esp. Peco and lube the tie bars, also for lube in wire in tube for points.

 

It does conduct electy and prevents corrosion between different metals

[boxbrownie]

14 hours ago, locomad2 said:

 

Wonder if this stuff is very much like "Copper grease" used in car repairs for brake pin parts and battery terminals. Very cheap and available (sold in tubes in Hellfords), also used on bikes for inner cables 

 

I've used it in model railways on points on the inside rail contacts esp. Peco and lube the tie bars, also for lube in wire in tube for points.

 

It does conduct electy and prevents corrosion between different metals

I wouldn’t use it on the rail heads TBH as it really is a grease and not a contact cleaner which will evaporate quite quickly and leave a non greasy conductive residue, I used “copaslip” in the fishplates on our LGB garden railway and it remained untroubled without further attention* for 15 years…..good stuff.

 

*after winter all we did was run the LGB track cleaner Loco around a few times to make the rail heads shiney’ish again, but sometimes I just ran the Mallet around for a few hours and the track pick up wipers did the same job, brass track is really good stuff.

Edited January 19, 2022 by boxbrownie