Hornby 2021 - SR Bogie Luggage van

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

 

However you need to remember that 'Pullman' gangways are installed where buckeye couplers are fitted and the gangway takes the place of the side buffers for the coach!

 

The old LSWR underframes would have been fitted with screw link couplings and probably not beefy enough for buckeyes to be retro fitted without strengthening, while the as built body may not have been strong enough to cope with the buffering forces either.

 

Bering in mind the whole reason the GBLs were built using recycled underframes was to keep costs down using 'British Standard' gangways is a pragmatic solution - and its still possible that the canny SR was able to procure some 2nd hand ones from somewhere.

Quite possibly off the same coaches the underframes came from; the lengths being over 50' suggest they would have been earlier LSWR gangwayed types.

 

Loose vans would have carried Pullman adapters semi-permanently but those incorporated in rakes (e.g. Newspaper trains) wouldn't need them other than at the outer ends of the formation.

 

John

[bude_branch]

8 hours ago, Combe Martin said:

 

I don't have my copy of the Gould book with me at the moment (most of my books are in storage at the moment mid moving) but as I recall (and I might be wrong), because there are no repainting records things were a bit vague, and he couldn't be definite about which were re-painted green. 

 

I do appreciate the difficulties of clearly identifying which, if any, individual vans ran in BR(S) green.  However, based upon what happened with other SR loco hauled stock, it does seem likely that at least some vans would have run in re-varnished malachite green with BR numbers and lettering.

 

I can remember these vans in Clapham Yard in the early 50's and I'm sure some, if not all, of them were in green.

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

38 minutes ago, bude_branch said:

 

I do appreciate the difficulties of clearly identifying which, if any, individual vans ran in BR(S) green.  However, based upon what happened with other SR loco hauled stock, it does seem likely that at least some vans would have run in re-varnished malachite green with BR numbers and lettering.

 

I can remember these vans in Clapham Yard in the early 50's and I'm sure some, if not all, of them were in green.

 

 

In the early 1950s, any green ones would definitely have been SR green with new BR markings. The reversion to green (the BR shade) wasn't authorised by the BRB until 1956. 

 

There was a supposed ten-year repainting cycle for coaching stock (with two-yearly re-varnishing) but AIUI, that could be deferred on NPCCS if it were considered that re-varnishing would suffice.  

 

I have an SR-liveried one awaiting "the treatment". Gould is fairly definite that few, if any of these vans received the lighter Bulleid green until after WW2. It's therefore likely that vans repainted during the latter half of the war retained Maunsell green until about 1955. In all probability, the few that were repainted into BR green had never carried crimson.

 

John

Edited January 11, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Jack P]

I managed to confirm that there was at-least some plausibility that 2456 was painted malachite

 

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Jack P said:

I managed to confirm that there was at-least some plausibility that 2456 was painted malachite

 

 

Are you sure?

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Jack P said:

I managed to confirm that there was at-least some plausibility that 2456 was painted malachite

 

 

Though there appears to be some debate as to whether it happened before or after nationalisation.

 

[The Johnster]

If one of these vans was repainted between 1/1/48 and 31/5/48, it should in theory have been painted in malachite green with 'sunshine' letters and numbers, but no 'Southern' branding and an S prefix to the number.  Any repainted after 1/1/48 up to  the 1956 livery instruction,  should in theory have been painted in BR crimson with Glll Sans letters and numbers, and an S suffix added after the introduction of BR mk1 stock in 1950.  But the first 6 months of 1948 were a time of considerable confusion and insecurity of paint sourcing in a period of deep economic austerity, and I would be reluctant to assert that what should have happened in theory always translated exactly into what happened in reality...

 

I would assume, but do not know for certain, that the deconverted hospital vehicles were repainted in Southern Rly. malachite with sunshine lettering and numbers when they were returned to revenue service after the war.

[Butler Henderson]

The Railway Executive did not decide on what colours were to be applied until the Spring of 1949 so any repainted after 1/1/48 until then would have been malachite as well.

[Dunsignalling]

The dates when the directive on crimson and crimson/cream came into force and when it actually started being applied at a particular works to particular categories of stock may not have aligned precisely. 

 

New express stock obviously got priority for the latest livery and lesser coaches and NPCCS may not have begun receiving it for some time afterwards. There seem to be no references to new liveries in text relating to 1948 apart from the experimental ones.

 

Gould (p.22) refers to new BRCW-built Bulleid coaches being turned out in Malachite as late as April 1949  and I doubt that lowly NPCCS would have received greater priority for crimson. In any event, the SR and BR(S) were both notoriously tight where paint was concerned. Only vans in real need of full repainting got it, even in less straitened times, so there probably weren't many done anyway. 

 

First stock that definitely was in crimson and cream were the Tavern Car sets.

 

John

Edited January 12, 2022 by Dunsignalling