Formula 1 2021

[298]

23 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Video released and he doesn’t ease off the steering lock as far as I can see. 
 

 

 

 

I wasn't expecting the same as Hammond on Clarkson at Lydden Hill (Top Gear rallycross on a budget), but it looks like wouldn't have made the corner anyway. Certainly not the Gentleman racing we were promised.

 

I've found Verstappen morphing into a Vettel (who is now a very entertaining driver) when he was a RB puppet, fine when ahead but couldn't deal with being challenged and lacked the intelligence to make the best of a situation, such as the pressure from Hamilton catching up at the last race and fretting about a back marker instead of using it for a tow and DRS.

[57xx]

6 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

The onboard footage is irrelvant. I don't know why so many people are talking about it.

Verstappen was slightly behind in the braking zone & re-took the position by going off the track. He didn't go just off either; he was well over 2 car widths wide of the track limit. This was quite clear from the outside view & is more than worthy of a penalty.

Norris forced Perez off earlier this year (I think in Austria) & got a penalty even though he didn't leave the track himself.

You don't need to see Verstappen's on-board camera to see any of that.

 

When I refer to onboard footage, I am speaking in general, not about this incident. Thought I made that clear in the second half of the post where I say you don't need the footage to see what happened.

 

Anyhow, the "lost" footage the FIA had allegedly destroyed whilst also forcing people to have vaccines and suppress climate change has been released.

 

[57xx]

33 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Video released and he doesn’t ease off the steering lock as far as I can see. 
 

 

He needs to apply steering lock first to ease off it. He didn't make any attempt to turn until well across the track. So much for trying to hit the apex.

[woodenhead]

The FIA did say they would look again once the in car footage was released, I guess is has been released now.

 

Will be interesting to see how they react, if they react at all.

 

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, 298 said:

I've found Verstappen morphing into a Vettel (who is now a very entertaining driver) when he was a RB puppet, fine when ahead but couldn't deal with being challenged and lacked the intelligence to make the best of a situation

 

Must be something in his cockpit water supply, inducing Red(Bull)Mistitis. Symptoms include erratic cornering when under pressure...

[Andrew P]

Could it be just 2 MORE RACES?

 

Saudi 'up against it' to have F1 venue ready for Dec. 5 race.

https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/32643451/saudi-to-f1-venue-ready-dec-5-race

 

[ejstubbs]

Sao Paulo Grand Prix: Mercedes ask for review of Max Verstappen manoeuvre

 

Quote

 

Mercedes have asked for a review of the decision not to penalise Red Bull's Max Verstappen for forcing Lewis Hamilton wide in the Sao Paulo Grand Prix.

The incident on lap 48 of the race was "noted" by the stewards but no investigation was carried out.

Mercedes have lodged a "right of review" after new evidence emerged that was not available at the time.

 

 

[Andrew P]

I thought he'd had a good season.

 

So, All new at Alfa for 2022.

Antonio Giovinazzi on Alfa Romeo exit: Money rules in F1

https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/32643366/antonio-giovinazzi-alfa-romeo-exit-money-rules-f1

[ess1uk]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59310486

[didcot]

Verstappen clearly knows where Hamilton is as you can see his head turning to the right mirror along the straight and until the point he is past. He missed the apex of the curve and doesn't apply full lock until the point they almost touch, which is when he is about a cars width ish from the outside of the curve. 

If Verstappen was "sliding " due to his tyres more turning would have been required earlier in the corner. But the fact he missed the apex on turn in would suggest otherwise.

[Andrew P]

 

[jcredfer]

45 minutes ago, didcot said:

Verstappen clearly knows where Hamilton is as you can see his head turning to the right mirror along the straight and until the point he is past. He missed the apex of the curve and doesn't apply full lock until the point they almost touch, which is when he is about a cars width ish from the outside of the curve. 

If Verstappen was "sliding " due to his tyres more turning would have been required earlier in the corner. But the fact he missed the apex on turn in would suggest otherwise.

 

Clearly Lewis' fault, as he plainly got in front and led Max in a straight line off the track.  Max had no option but to be drawn away from negotiating the corner.  What's more, Lewis obviously knew Max was missing the corner and went really wide, so as to make sure Max had as much room as possible to go as far off the track as was possible.

 

Now that's clear, they won't have to cancel any races to lessen the chance that Lewis can get sufficient catch-up points.

 

Given the shortage of people taking up jobs, after the Covid lockdowns, I may just have the right qualities to apply for a Steward's job next year.  On the other hand, I would still have to look at myself in the mirror to shave, in the mornings, so I will probably give the opportunity a miss.   

 

 

[Zomboid]

Do they ever change anything retrospectively?

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs, it isn't a clever look for any team to be moaning about the refereeing after the event, particularly after they won anyway.

[woodenhead]

Just now, Zomboid said:

Do they ever change anything retrospectively?

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs, it isn't a clever look for any team to be moaning about the refereeing after the event, particularly after they won anyway.

They can with 'new' evidence, whether they will is another matter, but they rejected the RB appeal because it was manufactured evidence not new evidence.  The missing cockpit video should be new evidence that was not available at the time of the incident.

[black and decker boy]

5 hours ago, 57xx said:

 

When I refer to onboard footage, I am speaking in general, not about this incident. Thought I made that clear in the second half of the post where I say you don't need the footage to see what happened.

 

Anyhow, the "lost" footage the FIA had allegedly destroyed whilst also forcing people to have vaccines and suppress climate change has been released.

 

Well he didn’t turn towards HAM but by not trying to turn into the corner, he effectively did the same and ran him off the road.

 

it would be interesting to compare to his steering actions on a normal lap 

[Dunsignalling]

MV didn't exactly look like a man wrestling with a car on the edge of grip to me....

 

John

[EddieB]

Rather than apply a retrospective sanction, I'd prefer to see CH made to eat his words over the lesser incident at Silverstone and publicly apologise for his team's approach to sportsmanship.

[mudmagnet]

I think that the point Toto wants to make is that how can the stewards decide not to investigate when clearly do not have all the facts. If after investigation, they determine nothing wrong, then fine, but they did not appear to want to investigate.

 

If it was LH doing the same, then you would never hear the end of it from CH / RB

 

[RJS1977]

2 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Do they ever change anything retrospectively?

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs, it isn't a clever look for any team to be moaning about the refereeing after the event, particularly after they won anyway.

 

Yes, Mercedes/Lewis won. But Bottas was only three seconds behind Max at the end of the race, so a five second penalty would mean more points for Mercedes and fewer for Max/RB, which could be critical for both championships.

[57xx]

1 hour ago, mudmagnet said:

If it was LH doing the same, then you would never hear the end of it from CH / RB

 

If?  More like When, we didn't hear the end of it, we suffered weeks of them bitching and moaning about how LH was dangerous and should be banned. The only difference here is that Lewis was smart enough to avoid a collision and not turn in to Max, vi-sa-vi Copse

 

edit: Actually, there was another difference, Lewis made it round Copse without running off the track, despite having his trajectory altered by Max hitting him.

Edited November 16, 2021 by 57xx

[RJS1977]

On 15/11/2021 at 12:15, RJS1977 said:

My thought on the pushing wide incident:

 

When Max and Lewis collided at Silverstone, RB contested that had it not been for the collision, Lewis would have run out of road on the exit to the corner, pushing Max off the circuit.

 

The only difference between the two incidents as far as I can see is that at Sao Paolo, Lewis took evasive action to avoid Max, whereas Max didn't take evasive action at Silverstone.

 

Andrew Benson:

 

"At the British Grand Prix in July, Hamilton was given a 10-second penalty for causing a collision with Verstappen in an incident that has some parallels with the one at Interlagos.

In that one, Hamilton was trying to overtake on the inside of Copse corner.

He ran wide at the apex, just as Verstappen did in Brazil, but Verstappen did not take avoiding action as Hamilton did at Interlagos, they collided and the Red Bull crashed."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59310486

[57xx]

Quote

I can do that, because I did.

 

Nice one MB.

[Andrew P]

9 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Yes, Mercedes/Lewis won. But Bottas was only three seconds behind Max at the end of the race, so a five second penalty would mean more points for Mercedes and fewer for Max/RB, which could be critical for both championships.

 

9 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Andrew Benson:

 

"At the British Grand Prix in July, Hamilton was given a 10-second penalty for causing a collision with Verstappen in an incident that has some parallels with the one at Interlagos.

In that one, Hamilton was trying to overtake on the inside of Copse corner.

He ran wide at the apex, just as Verstappen did in Brazil, but Verstappen did not take avoiding action as Hamilton did at Interlagos, they collided and the Red Bull crashed."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59310486

 

IF, The Stewards now give a retrospective 5 or 10 second Penalty to Max, CH / RB / MV will then claim it UNFAIR as they will claim that MV would have pushed more HAD HE KNOWN and maintained a MORE THAN 5 second gap to Bottas. 

 

I can see this rumbling on from CH / RB / MV.

 

[Hobby]

18 hours ago, 57xx said:

 

He needs to apply steering lock first to ease off it. He didn't make any attempt to turn until well across the track. So much for trying to hit the apex.

 

More interestingly it's clear be made no attempt to brake as well, Lewis gets just past him and then brakes but Max just keeps going, at that speed he just wouldn't have made the corner regardless, though that's also clear from the overhead shots they had at the time, it just confirms it. Anyhow lets see what happens when the review it.

[Hroth]

46 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

 

 

IF, The Stewards now give a retrospective 5 or 10 second Penalty to Max, CH / RB / MV will then claim it UNFAIR as they will claim that MV would have pushed more HAD HE KNOWN and maintained a MORE THAN 5 second gap to Bottas. 

 

I can see this rumbling on from CH / RB / MV.

 

 

Perhaps a 10 second penalty, and a severe warning that it would be increased by 5 seconds each time they complain about it.

 

Works well with Primary school pupils, I am told.....