LNER Banana Van announced!!

[31A]

Thank you for showing us how you corrected the brakes on these vans, I look forward to doing the same when the BR versions become available.

 

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, 31A said:

Thank you for showing us how you corrected the brakes on these vans, I look forward to doing the same when the BR versions become available.

 

I like your confidence that Oxford won't have learned from their mistakes!

[Dominion]

Unlikely with these I would have thought. It’s not an assembly issue. It is in the tooling. But they are still very nice models. 

[Wickham Green too]

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I like your confidence that Oxford won't have learned from their mistakes!

Hmmmmm ........ I wonder how long the axles are this time ? 

[Dominion]

I have just been reading an interesting  2 page article titled "Yes We Have No Banana Vans" by John Watling. It is in the Great Eastern Railway Society Journal number 61, from January 1990. It starts with some information on the traffic before the first World War, including a description of the MR vans being used before the GER built theirs.

It then moves to the GE vans.  There is a full size line drawing of the GE banana van, a picture of a van in BR livery and a picture of the similar General van in NE livery. There is also a discussion of some of the vans being lent to the Southern, and reference to the location of 2 pictures showing the vans labelled SR.

[Graham_Muz]

A sneak preview of a future post on my blog, regrading those loaned to the SR and lettered on a patch covering the NE... she is just waiting on the replacement Morton Clutch lever to arrive (I was sure I had some in the spares box..) 

 

 

[Dominion]

Looks good Graham. I would love a southern designed Banana van to go with my GE/NE ones. Do those knowledgeable about the Southern think that the Diagram 1479 van wore the stone livery with red lettering, as depicted on the Parkside 7mm Diagram 1478 model or would the 1479 ones have been brown by the time they were built ? I have only found pictures in BR livery. Any guidance appreciated. Tom

[Graham_Muz]

4 minutes ago, Dominion said:

Looks good Graham. I would love a southern designed Banana van to go with my GE/NE ones. Do those knowledgeable about the Southern think that the Diagram 1479 van wore the stone livery with red lettering, as depicted on the Parkside 7mm Diagram 1478 model or would the 1479 ones have been brown by the time they were built ? I have only found pictures in BR livery. Any guidance appreciated. Tom

 

I can confirm both the SR diagram 1478 (built 1935)  and 1479 (built 1938) would have been in SR stone with venetian red lettering, the difference would be that the D1479 were all in the post SR lettering style of the smaller 5" SR in the bottom left hand corner stacked above the 10T and the number and not the larger pre 1936 18" SR style.

 

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, Dominion said:

I have just been reading an interesting  2 page article titled "Yes We Have No Banana Vans" by John Watling. It is in the Great Eastern Railway Society Journal number 61, from January 1990. It starts with some information on the traffic before the first World War, including a description of the MR vans being used before the GER built theirs.

It then moves to the GE vans.  There is a full size line drawing of the GE banana van, a picture of a van in BR livery and a picture of the similar General van in NE livery. There is also a discussion of some of the vans being lent to the Southern, and reference to the location of 2 pictures showing the vans labelled SR.

 

ISTR reading somewhere that the "some" was about 200 vehicles. AIUI, a banana importer that had been expected to land cargoes at a port served by the LNER switched to using Southampton.

 

The LNER had no work for the vans and the Southern didn't have enough of their own to deal with the extra traffic, so a hire arrangement suited both parties.

 

John

Edited February 12, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Graham_Muz]

1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

ISTR reading somewhere that the "some" was about 200 vehicles. AIUI, a banana importer that had been expected to land cargoes at a port served by the LNER switched to using Southampton.

 

The LNER had no work for the vans and the Southern didn't have enough of their own to deal with the extra traffic, so a hire arrangement suited both parties.

 

John

Hi John, you are correct and I will be including all the details, and a couple of photos of the vans at Southampton,  in a future post on my blog as soon as I can finish off correcting this GER banana van. 

[Dunsignalling]

On 08/02/2022 at 20:18, Wickham Green too said:

Hmmmmm ........ I wonder how long the axles are this time ? 

Fortunately, although (up to now) Oxford's axle lengths have been non-standard, the diameter is the usual 2mm. 

 

I just swap Gibsons onto the Oxford axles and Robert's your mum's brother.

 

John  

Edited February 12, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Dominion]

Peter Tatlow in book 4A says the arrangement was for 225 vans, ex NER, GC, and GER.

I have not found a picture yet of a GC one.  In Tatlow Volume 1 there is a fitted GC van with a light coloured circle like the GW used then for Banana vans, but it is not labeled on the van or the caption as Banana (Pg 126).

I wonder if any GN Banana vans were included in those lent to the Southern. There is a picture of a former GN Banana van in the same volume, pg. 55. It would be interesting to see how many of those types are in Graham's pictures.

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Fortunately, although (up to now) Oxford's axle lengths have been non-standard, the diameter is the usual 2mm. 

I just swap Gibsons onto the Oxford axles and Robert's your mum's brother.

Yes, been there done that, BUT have found - on some wagons at least - that Gibson's interpretation of 2mm ain't the same as Oxford's interpretation of 2mm and the concept of a standard diameter has to be taken with a pinch of salt .... or at least a smear of superglue ( best not to pinch superglue ). 

[Dunsignalling]

9 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Yes, been there done that, BUT have found - on some wagons at least - that Gibson's interpretation of 2mm ain't the same as Oxford's interpretation of 2mm and the concept of a standard diameter has to be taken with a pinch of salt .... or at least a smear of superglue ( best not to pinch superglue ). 

 

Whenever mixing wheels and axles, I always take that precaution; there is always a possibility that one loosens the fit in the exchange process. Gibsons are my preferred wheels on all wagons, as their "detailed" centres look so much better IMHO.

 

My other common swap has been fitting Markits tender wheels to my Bachmann WD, BR5's, and Collett 0-6-0s (which have stepped axles). For some reason, the original wheels on my examples tended to "kick" on Code 75 points where none of my other Bachmann tenders (including BR4's and 9F's) have ever done so.  

 

I recently test-fitted a set of Gibsons to one of my Accurascale 21t minerals. These have much thinner axles, making the "Oxford" solution impossible. It took an awful lot of work with the Truck Tuner to get the axleboxes to accommodate the chunkier pin-points. The profiled centres of the Gibson wheels do improve the wagon's  appearance, but I seem to be putting off doing the other two....

 

John

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

I found my Truck Tuner to be the solution for Accurascale 21 tonners too - but SLIGHTLY deepening the bore with a small ( 0.5mm ? ) drill beforehand - maybe three or four turns with gentle pressure - made it simple. ( The Truck Tuner will not deepen the hole by itself.)

 

One day I'll finish my Dub-Dee ..... a DJH kit on Sharman wheels - all with 1/8'' bore so pony & tender wheels had to be bushed ! [ Raised balance weights - not provided in the kit - look like they'll make the motion particularly challenging ! ]  

[Tony Cane]

I have  a special use for my Oxford banana van. This is as the stores van for casualty evacuation train 334.

[MartinTrucks]

On 12/02/2022 at 18:02, Graham_Muz said:

Hi John, you are correct and I will be including all the details, and a couple of photos of the vans at Southampton,  in a future post on my blog as soon as I can finish off correcting this GER banana van. 

Hello Graham,

Unfortunately GERS Journal No.61 was issued during a gap in my GERS membership (I have Journal Nos. 40 and 71) so I do not have access to John Watling's article.  Could you tell me please when the GE Banana Vans were returned to the LNER?

Thanks,

Martin

[Graham_Muz]

10 hours ago, MartinTrucks said:

Hello Graham,

Unfortunately GERS Journal No.61 was issued during a gap in my GERS membership (I have Journal Nos. 40 and 71) so I do not have access to John Watling's article.  Could you tell me please when the GE Banana Vans were returned to the LNER?

Thanks,

Martin

 

I do not have the John Wakling article either, however, the LNER requested the return on 24/11/37 but how long it took before they were all physically returned is anyone guess.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Graham_Muz

[PaulG]

12 hours ago, MartinTrucks said:

Hello Graham,

Unfortunately GERS Journal No.61 was issued during a gap in my GERS membership (I have Journal Nos. 40 and 71) so I do not have access to John Watling's article.  Could you tell me please when the GE Banana Vans were returned to the LNER?

Thanks,

Martin

Is this the article of John's,  which I published when GERS Journal Editor?

 

 

I also have the following notes, but to be honest not sure from where:

 

"The GER Dia 72 van formed the basis of 100 8-ton AVB fitted, steam heated, and insulated banana vans delivered to the LNER in 1923. The vans were loaned to the Southern and there are photos of them at Worting Junction with the “NE” being replaced by “SR”. In 1958, out of the 100 vehicles built, 85 were still in stock. See GERS Journal 61 article.

Further banana vans were required for the Jamaican banana imports through London Docks and built by the LNER in 1929/30. See LNER wagons.

On 1st March 1962 Geest opened a factory at Easton Lodge on the Braintree branch, for the import of green bananas, and amounted to 300tons of unripe fruit weekly."
 

 

Paul

Yes we have no banan vans.pdf

Edited February 15, 2022 by PaulG

[Dominion]

Hi Paul, the photo John Watling refers to in the text that you mention is actually on the top of the following page to the 2 you showed. My version of it is from a pdf of the journal from the GERS emporium, it is a bit too grainy to see any livery on the vans. I am wondering if your version of that photo may be better ? Tom

[PaulG]

2 hours ago, Dominion said:

Hi Paul, the photo John Watling refers to in the text that you mention is actually on the top of the following page to the 2 you showed. My version of it is from a pdf of the journal from the GERS emporium, it is a bit too grainy to see any livery on the vans. I am wondering if your version of that photo may be better ? Tom

 

Presumably you mean the Dr Ian Allen photo at Worting Junction (see my note above and Journal scan herewith, best I can do) of two GER banana vans?  If so, sorry, I don't have a copy, but in theory it is commercially available.

 

I guess you have seen these photos from Journal 80

 

Paul

[Dominion]

Ah great, thanks Paul. The photo I was referring to was on a third page from the Journal 61 article, I missed it the first time, as the article finishes its text on page 2, but has that photo over the page. It is the same photo you posted above of the S15 pulling the vans. Yes your version is much better definition than the earlier version I had referred to. Thank you.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Dominion
Typo and clarity

[Graham_Muz]

The S15 picture at Worting heading to Southampton Docks was taken after May 1935 when her 1928 fitted Maunsell style boiler was replaced with the Urie pattern boiler and smokebox door as shown in the picture.

[Graham_Muz]

Going GER Bananas... with an SR flavour...  my post on the GER vans on the SR can be read here https://southern-railway.com/2022/02/19/workbench-witterings15-going-bananas-with-a-great-eastern-flavour/

 

[markw]

But haven't you changed the wrong brake lever, the Morton clutch should be on the same side as the brake cylinder.