Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[beast66606]

Anyone know what the current restrictions are in Wales ? - is it what Drakeford dictates or what he does at parties ? - strangely silent in the West wing on this

[Neil]

Wales is currently in alert level 0 - this is the bet summary of what that means in practical terms. I can find nothing about  what Mark Drakeford does at parties.

[Neil]

A sorry tale from the USA. This is what happens when idiocy and libertarian dogma get the whip hand.

[Nearholmer]

The Daily Mail has a story about MD dancing while not wearing a mask at a Diwali party. It’s couched as a riposte to the “Boris not wearing a mask at a hospital” story. I don’t know what the rules in Wales are, but is dancing at a party while maskless either illegal, or in breach of guidance?

 

 

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

The Daily Mail has a story about MD dancing while not wearing a mask at a Diwali party. It’s couched as a riposte to the “Boris not wearing a mask at a hospital” story. I don’t know what the rules in Wales are, but is dancing at a party while maskless either illegal, or in breach of guidance?

 

 

 

My opinion. It's not helpful to the cause of combatting Covid for those in charge to do stuff which either breaks the guidelines in place for the rest of us or bends them to such an extent that the public heath message is weakened.

 

The relevant rules would be:

 

"Wearing face coverings is still a legal requirement in almost all indoor public places, including on almost all public transport and in shops and health and social care settings. The use of face coverings in education will be determined at a local level."

 

but also

 

"Face coverings will not be a legal requirement in hospitality settings, like restaurants, pubs and cafes, where food and drink is served."

 

though

 

"If a business is multi-purpose, with food & drink one of the many reasons for a visit (for example a hotel with a restaurant, an indoor attraction with a café, an events or conference centre with a restaurant, a cinema or theatre with a bar), face coverings must still be worn by staff and customers in all areas of the business apart from the specific areas where food & drink are consumed."

 

However we see politicians and public figures interviewed without masks, do TV studios and government buildings count as public spaces? I've yet to find specific regulations on mask wearing in the workplace, it appears to be down to employers risk assessments. Whether rules have been broken or not seems to be down to two interpretations, is where the event was held a public space or workplace and how do the hospitality rules match to what was taking place.

[Nearholmer]

I’m not sure where the party was, the rather grainy phone-came picture, snipped from a video by the looks of it, almost looked as if it might have been on the floor of the parliamentary debating chamber, so a ‘party’ as in the sense of a ‘party of visitors’, but it is really hard to tell, and nobody at all seems to be wearing a mask.

 

PS: it was at Cardiff Uni., so goodness knows what the rules are.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Nearholmer

[hayfield]

30 minutes ago, Neil said:

 

My opinion. It's not helpful to the cause of combatting Covid for those in charge to do stuff which either breaks the guidelines in place for the rest of us or bends them to such an extent that the public heath message is weakened.

 

The relevant rules would be:

 

"Wearing face coverings is still a legal requirement in almost all indoor public places, including on almost all public transport and in shops and health and social care settings. The use of face coverings in education will be determined at a local level."

 

but also

 

"Face coverings will not be a legal requirement in hospitality settings, like restaurants, pubs and cafes, where food and drink is served."

 

though

 

"If a business is multi-purpose, with food & drink one of the many reasons for a visit (for example a hotel with a restaurant, an indoor attraction with a café, an events or conference centre with a restaurant, a cinema or theatre with a bar), face coverings must still be worn by staff and customers in all areas of the business apart from the specific areas where food & drink are consumed."

 

However we see politicians and public figures interviewed without masks, do TV studios and government buildings count as public spaces? I've yet to find specific regulations on mask wearing in the workplace, it appears to be down to employers risk assessments. Whether rules have been broken or not seems to be down to two interpretations, is where the event was held a public space or workplace and how do the hospitality rules match to what was taking place.

 

The biggest issue is that all 4 devolved governments have differing rules, as for not following his own rules, I guess no one is free from lapses

 

I had to smile when a certain person was complaining that the eastern section of HS2 was not going to happen, when he was reminded he campaigned against it. Embarrassing and inconsistent ? sooner or later everyone trips up.  We forget they are human 

[Nearholmer]

I actually believed BJ yesterday when he said that the hospital incident involved him genuinely forgetting for thirty seconds that he had taken his mask off. I’ve done it.

[hayfield]

 

I see Austria is going into full lockdown on Monday and making vaccination compulsory (a legal requirement)

 

Germany and some eastern European countries are increasing restrictions.  Covid rates are also increasing alarmingly in Europe, except for some southern countries

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

I actually believed BJ yesterday when he said that the hospital incident involved him genuinely forgetting for thirty seconds that he had taken his mask off. I’ve done it.

Agree, the other morning, I got half way down the first aisle in Tesco before remembering I was unmasked, having just used the hand sanitiser on the way in! Easily done.

 

John

[Nearholmer]

I’m now thrice-stabbed, six months and one day from the second.

I’d already booked at a vaccination centre of my own volition, but the surgery was ‘on the case’, sending me a text this morning reminding me that six months was up, and giving a link to their own booking system. Top marks.

[monkeysarefun]

48 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Agree, the other morning, I got half way down the first aisle in Tesco before remembering I was unmasked, having just used the hand sanitiser on the way in! Easily done.

 

John

I'm the opposite, wearing a  mask at work, forgetting it's on and pouring coffee down the front of it when taking a  sip.

 

[TheQ]

38 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I’m now thrice-stabbed, six months and one day from the second.

I’d already booked at a vaccination centre of my own volition, but the surgery was ‘on the case’, sending me a text this morning reminding me that six months was up, and giving a link to their own booking system. Top marks.

I'd like to book my vaccination but the NHS website thinks Sheffield is suitable for someone on the coast of Norfolk.. All the sites  offered are double or more the mileage they quote.. The nearest  is about a 80 mile round trip...

 

Meanwhile from my local surgery....  Silence.... They are in a group of surgeries using a village hall 10 miles away, SWMBO is booked into the surgery (4 miles away) for a flu Vaccine in a weeks time.. She will bend  some ears...  (we are both classed as vulnerable..)

 

Oh I keep taking the mask off when I want to remove my glasses ... and the other way around..

Edited November 19, 2021 by TheQ

[Nearholmer]

That is not good at all. Fingers crossed that you get sorted swiftly.

 

We we’re flu-jabbed in September, because the surgery wanted it off the ‘to do’ list as early as possible.

 

 

[Jonboy]

A colleague text me this morning to say they had a positive LFT, and were awaiting a PCR result.

 

My phone offered 3 one click auto answers “great”, “ok thanks” or “that’s great news”….!

[Hobby]

6 hours ago, hayfield said:

The biggest issue is that all 4 devolved governments

 

Erm, actually three? England doesn't have it's own government as Welsh, Scottish and NI MPs can still vote on any matters relating purely to England... The West Lothian Question!  

Edited November 19, 2021 by Hobby

[beast66606]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

That is not good at all. Fingers crossed that you get sorted swiftly.

 

We we’re flu-jabbed in September, because the surgery wanted it off the ‘to do’ list as early as possible.

 

 

I'm double jabbed, boosted and had the flu jab back in September, the Mrs is double jabbed, flu jabbed and will be boosted a week today - for the last few days we have been plagued with NHS reminders to get the booster, both by text and email - for example I've had 2 texts and an email today, she's had 3 texts and hasn't checked her emails yet.

 

[hayfield]

3 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

Erm, actually three? England doesn't have it's own government as Welsh, Scottish and NI MPs can still vote on any matters relating purely to England... The West Lothian Question!  

 

Quite correct but England has its own rules, so there are 4 differing sets of rules

[Neil]

9 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

The biggest issue is that all 4 devolved governments have differing rules, ....

 

During the earlier stages of the pandemic the situation was even more fractured as various bit of England, Scotland and Wales (not sure about NI) were in different tiers, with different restrictions.

 

There's an argument that it's just a reflection of the democratic process that we have differing rules. I'd guess that as health is a devolved issue then the devolved governments would argue that as they were expected to deal with the repercussions of Covid then they should be able to manage as best they could what those repercussions might be.

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

Quite correct but England has its own rules, so there are 4 differing sets of rules

 

The point I was making is that MPs from the other countries can influence (and have, I think) Covid decisions which affect just England, in the last parliament the SNP were very active in English only matters even though they represented no-one from that country. It's something that was supposed to have been sorted several years ago, but hasn't, and it really p's me off that it hasn't been!  

 

 

 

 

On a separate note I see that Austria has complete lockdown... The way things are going our railway trip to Slovakia next year could also be in jeopardy... What the heck is going on over there?!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59343650

[Nearholmer]

The Euro-lockdowns seem to be about intensive care bed capacity. A speaker from the Netherlands said on the radio earlier that they have c1000 ICU beds in the country, already c500 filled with Covid patients, and they can’t send patients to Germany as happened before, because Germany is also close to full (and they have a very high per capita number of ICU beds).

 

We seem to be less badly placed because people are getting ‘boosted’ quicker here, and maybe because so many children have immunity from catching it - let’s hope/pray that our vaccine protection on its own is enough.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Nearholmer

[fulton]

We should be pleased with only four sets of rules, Germany has sixteen, each federal state trying to go its own way, Merkels central government trying to bring order, herding cats comes to mind, after the war it was deliberately set up this way so that a central government could not become too powerful but in this pandemic it is not a help. After last Christmas when we got caught up with the French closing the border, we had hoped this year would be better but it is looking more doubtful by the day.

[beast66606]

9 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The Euro-lockdowns seem to be about intensive care bed capacity. A speaker from the Netherlands said on the radio earlier that they have c1000 ICU beds in the country, already c500 filled with Covid patients, and they can’t send patients to Germany as happened before, because Germany is also close to full (and they have a very high per capita number of ICU beds).

 

We seem to be less badly placed because people are getting ‘boosted’ quicker here, and maybe because so many children have immunity from catching it - let’s hope/pray that our vaccine protection on its own is enough.

 

Shooting protestors seems to be somewhat at odds to trying to reduce ICU bed occupancy, the world is on fire - and I'm not talking blah blah blah.

 

[Nearholmer]

It was bound to get nasty, see earlier comments about Austria, and about what it would lead to if a “differential lockdown” (or maybe any form of hard lockdown) had to be reintroduced here.

 

Certain elements have been spoiling for a serious fight for a while, and now they’ve got their pretext.

 

My gut feeling is that the broader population will support police actions to contain rioting, but resorting to shooting people (it isn’t clear in the report I read whether that was with lead bullets, or “batton rounds”) does make you wonder. 
 

For the long and dishonourable history of certain elements grabbing any pretext to riot in Rotterdam, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Rotterdam_riots The police shot four rioters on that occasion.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Nearholmer

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, beast66606 said:

 

Shooting protestors seems to be somewhat at odds to trying to reduce ICU bed occupancy, the world is on fire - and I'm not talking blah blah blah.

 

 

I like I assume the vast majority would be appalled at such use of force was used. However by condemning it we must be careful not to condone the use of rioting as a legitimate activity.

 

In an orderly society we must never accept rioting as a justifiable course of action. All those taking part in rioting should face the full force of the law and should be made to pay for the destruction they have made. Clearly a small number of those rioting have a different agenda, the mass then feel they are entitled to join in. This should never be tolerated as it leads to anarchy