Chuffnell Regis

[MrWolf]

I remember bodges like your mother's house were quite common in the 80s @5BarVT. It was quite common for landlords to do that in order to get approval for renting out to five or six students.

The joke was when I was at university being that you plugged in the two bar electric fire and all huddled round the plug socket.

One place I lived in, one of the girls said that the fridge door was stuck. It wasn't, it had started to go through the floor and only the lino was supporting it!

 

[5BarVT]

45 minutes ago, Graham T said:

Happy to confess that I'm completely out of my depth here!

 

38 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Your not alone.

Sorry!

Whilst you can’t electrocute yourself on low voltages, Rob is right that it doesn’t mean you can’t do harm in the wrong circumstances.

The main thing to take from this is for point motors using a commercial CDU, it’s safe to use trial and error to see if your wire size is big enough.  Bigger is always better though.

Paul.

 

[Graham T]

7 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

 

Sorry!

Whilst you can’t electrocute yourself on low voltages, Rob is right that it doesn’t mean you can’t do harm in the wrong circumstances.

The main thing to take from this is for point motors using a commercial CDU, it’s safe to use trial and error to see if your wire size is big enough.  Bigger is always better though.

Paul.

 

 

Thanks Paul, that's put my mind (such as it is) at rest.

 

My main concern was the wiring under the baseboards doing a Keith Flint impression when I wasn't looking!

[Graham T]

Strangely busy at Chuffnell R this morning.  I wonder what's going on?

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Graham T

[Graham T]

Evening all.  Well, to answer my own question, not a lot has been going on, at least on the surface.  Underground, it's been a different story.  After a pleasant day wandering along the Danube with the boss, and enjoying a picnic in the sunshine, I spent the evening installing the PL-1000 point motors below the baseboards.  I've now got most of them attached (albeit with copious profanities), although not yet wired up.  I'm saving that fun for another day.  You can have too much of a good thing!

 

Unfortunately, I've now run into a snag.  Quelle surprise...  At the station throat I have two points right next to each other, as per the photo below.  The furthest from the camera feeds the main platform and the bay.  I've attached a motor to the nearer point, but as they are right next to each other there's not enough room under the baseboard to fit the other motor...

 

I've been racking my brains but can't think of a way to use the PL-1000 with it offset from the point; anyone got any ideas on how that might be done?  Or else a recommendation for a point motor than can be offset from the point?  (And doesn't require an engineering degree to set up, preferably...)  Thanks

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Graham T

[MrWolf]

IIRC, the PL1000 can be surface mounted (on a little bracket available from Peco) so that it pulls the tiebar from the end.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't surface mount the motor underneath the baseboard and bend up a stiff bit of wire to go up through the baseboard to the tiebar in the normal way. The stiff wire can be attached to the motor drive rod using a chocolate block electrical connector. 

You then have a remote point motor.

[Graham T]

6 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

IIRC, the PL1000 can be surface mounted (on a little bracket available from Peco) so that it pulls the tiebar from the end.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't surface mount the motor underneath the baseboard and bend up a stiff bit of wire to go up through the baseboard to the tiebar in the normal way. The stiff wire can be attached to the motor drive rod using a chocolate block electrical connector. 

You then have a remote point motor.

 

Thanks Rob, that's an interesting idea - I'll do some exploring.  I also thought that perhaps I could put the operating rod into the far end of the tiebar, but there isn't an awful lot of plastic there to work with.

[5BarVT]

32 minutes ago, Graham T said:

I've been racking my brains but can't think of a way to use the PL-1000 with it offset from the point; anyone got any ideas on how that might be done?

I had that problem with tortoise machines and resolved it by drilling a hole near the end of the tiebar.  Works nicely.  I had pre-emptied the issue by drilling an offset hole through the baseboard before track laying.  It is possible to drill from below very carefully but I gather the success rate is not encouraging.

How much spare rod are you cutting off?  Could you put some plywood packing so that the second motor is ‘below’ the first and still reach the point with the drive rod?

Paul.

[Graham T]

1 minute ago, 5BarVT said:

I had that problem with tortoise machines and resolved it by drilling a hole near the end of the tiebar.  Works nicely.  I had pre-emptied the issue by drilling an offset hole through the baseboard before track laying.  It is possible to drill from below very carefully but I gather the success rate is not encouraging.

How much spare rod are you cutting off?  Could you put some plywood packing so that the second motor is ‘below’ the first and still reach the point with the drive rod?

Paul.

 

Unfortunately the operating rod isn't long enough to do that.  I'm looking into Rob's suggestion at the moment, and am also considering drilling through the end of the tiebar as an option (the motor would fit in place then), but as I mentioned there isn't much plastic in the end of the tiebar.  No room for error, and I wonder how strong it would be?

[MrWolf]

29 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

I had that problem with tortoise machines and resolved it by drilling a hole near the end of the tiebar.  Works nicely.  I had pre-emptied the issue by drilling an offset hole through the baseboard before track laying.  It is possible to drill from below very carefully but I gather the success rate is not encouraging.

How much spare rod are you cutting off?  Could you put some plywood packing so that the second motor is ‘below’ the first and still reach the point with the drive rod?

Paul.

 

That too is a very simple idea, it saves having to buy a Peco base. Drilling up through the baseboard is something that I have attempted in the past because I forgot to drill out for a point motor drive rod. 

As you say though, the success rate is less than encouraging. In my case, the drill grabbed as it broke through and smashed the #### out of the points.

Which is why I was so careful with the measurement, drilling and cutting when I built my current layout.

Yet I still had a set of points fall to bits, after of course, I had soldered everything up to ensure good connectivity.

 

Grr.

[Graham T]

3 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

That too is a very simple idea, it saves having to buy a Peco base. Drilling up through the baseboard is something that I have attempted in the past because I forgot to drill out for a point motor drive rod. 

As you say though, the success rate is less than encouraging. In my case, the drill grabbed as it broke through and smashed the #### out of the points.

Which is why I was so careful with the measurement, drilling and cutting when I built my current layout.

Yet I still had a set of points fall to bits, after of course, I had soldered everything up to ensure good connectivity.

 

Grr.

 

This is the point (ahem) where I'm wishing I still had a good, old-fashioned hand-powered drill...

[MrWolf]

A Dremel might be a little more controllable perhaps?

[Graham T]

Just now, MrWolf said:

A Dremel might be a little more controllable perhaps?

 

I was thinking of buying one actually, so that gives me another excuse justification

[MrWolf]

I keep meaning to buy one, I have a die grinder with about a four foot flexible shaft on it for cleaning up parts and dressing welds on motorcycle parts, but it's a mite brutal for model making purposes. 

[Graham T]

4 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

I keep meaning to buy one, I have a die grinder with about a four foot flexible shaft on it for cleaning up parts and dressing welds on motorcycle parts, but it's a mite brutal for model making purposes. 

 

That does sound a bit of a nuclear option for 4mm scale!

[MrWolf]

This is what I was thinking, it uses stuff you probably have. I have no idea why the picture is sideways though!

 

[Graham T]

A sitrep from Chuffnell Regis.  I decided to try the simpler option first, and managed to drill a 1mm hole through the tiebar and into the baseboard.  I then used that as a pilot hole to - very carefully - drill a 6 mm up from below the baseboard, for the operating rod from the motor.  That was a bit nerve-wracking, but it worked.  Trying to actually see what's going on when I was contorted under the baseboards was a bit of a challenge, so I threaded a length of brass rod down through the tiebar so that I could at least see the centre hole that I was aiming for.

 

There is now enough room underground for the two point motors to sit next to each other.  I still need to firtle the hole for the operating rod a little before I can finish the installation.

 

Oh, and of course the operating rod on the point motor was too thick too fit through the 1mm tiebar hole.  There wasn't enough plastic left to consider opening out the hole any further, so I had to take a file to the end of the operating rod.  A bit of elbow grease later, and it fits...

 

More to follow later!

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Graham T

[Graham T]

Seems to be a case of one step forward, followed by a giant leap backwards, here at Chuffnell R today.  Inevitably the end of the tiebar parted as I was trying to locate the operating rod in it from under the baseboard.  No problem I thought, I'll make sure the rod's in the right place, then superglue it to the end of the bar.  Job done.  But now the point won't throw fully over in one direction, and so isn't making electrical contact on that switch rail.  Grrr.

 

In an effort to stop beating my head against the wall I switched targets, and wired up one of the motors in the goods yard.  That one works at least, so a little bit of progress made.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Graham T
typo

[MrWolf]

Been there.

 

If it helps, I can send you a list of Profanity in German, Norwegian, Italian, Slovene, Russian, Croatian and several African languages such as Swahili and Bantu....

 

In case you run out.

 

It was a close run thing with my points.

 

KBO old chap, KBO.

[Graham T]

Please send profanity reinforcements!  We're in danger of being overrun

[MrWolf]

I'll have a word with my neighbor, he's from Kyrgyzstan. 

He's busy pretending to be a barber from Turkey, so that could be two more sources of untapped profanity...

[Graham T]

6 hours ago, Graham T said:

Seems to be a case of one step forward, followed by a giant leap backwards, here at Chuffnell R today.  Inevitably the end of the tiebar parted as I was trying to locate the operating rod in it from under the baseboard.  No problem I thought, I'll make sure the rod's in the right place, then superglue it to the end of the bar.  Job done.  But now the point won't throw fully over in one direction, and so isn't making electrical contact on that switch rail.  Grrr.

 

In an effort to stop beating my head against the wall I switched targets, and wired up one of the motors in the goods yard.  That one works at least, so a little bit of progress made.

 

 

So, I've managed to get the throw right on this point now, with some demented firtling, and stock will run through it properly in all directions.  But superglue isn't working for connecting the motor operating rod to the end of the tiebar.  I might try some impact adhesive next, unless anyone has a better suggestion?

 

In slightly more positive news, I've now got three of the motors wired up in the goods yard.  Only eight to go...

[5BarVT]

10 hours ago, Graham T said:

 

So, I've managed to get the throw right on this point now, with some demented firtling, and stock will run through it properly in all directions.  But superglue isn't working for connecting the motor operating rod to the end of the tiebar.  I might try some impact adhesive next, unless anyone has a better suggestion?

I think you might struggle with glue as (I think) there will be slight rotational movement between the tiebar and the drive which will stress any bond.

All rather difficult with the point in situ, but could you creat a ‘new’ loop out of wire and glue that to the tiebar?  Even better if you could strap it to the tiebar with other wire then glue the whole lot solid.

Easy to say, more difficult to do.  How are your fine motor skills?!

Paul.

[Graham T]

Interestingly, I was thinking along the same lines.  There will be some flexing at the joint between the rod and the tiebar, so any bond will eventually fail.  I'd been pondering a loop of some kind, but hadn't thought about using wire - that's a good idea, and I will give it a go.

 

The fine motor skills are ok, but the eyesight isn't as great as it used to be!  I just pop on a pair of reading glasses and that helps a lot.  I used to try modelling under a magnifying glass on a stand (the ones that have clips for holding the part you're working on), but I couldn't get on with it; I found that you had to have your head in one particular spot for everything to stay in focus.

[Graham T]

The one step forwards, two back saga continues at Chuffnell Regis.  I've now successfully got six point motors installed and working properly - so I'm over halfway there.  I know some might think the Peco switches are a bit "train set", but I like them, and more importantly I'm pretty sure that my girls will too when they come to visit at Christmas.

 

As to the steps backward.  You'll see that the "lever frame" is currently hovering above a piece of ply.  Which of course it's supposed to be screwed down onto.  With the first attempt at this I cut out an oblong in the centre of the ply for the wiring, but that made it too weak.  So I thought I would just drill a row of holes for the wires instead.  A good idea, eh?  Turns out that no, it wasn't.  I've soldered the wires onto the switch contacts to make sure I have good connectivity, so there's not enough flex on the cables now to get the frame all the way down onto the ply...

 

So.  I think I will have to use my hacksaw to connect the row of holes; that should still leave the ply strong enough, and allow me to route the cables.  The problem of course is that I will have to disconnect everything, modify the ply, and then reconnect all the wiring.  Chances of me getting something crossed?  Outstandingly high I'd imagine!

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Graham T