Chuffnell Regis

[Graham T]

I've just noticed, when I take it all apart again I should try to remember to align all the switches the same way when I put it back together again...

[MrWolf]

I got all carried away and made a track diagram and let all the little Peco switches into it - they work,so why not? I then constructed an angled box to mount them and the controller all together. 

Fine until I remembered that I hadn't made any provision to mount it on the side of the layout. 

I had to clamp it in place and drill through both from the back, without the drill grabbing a big bunch of wires.

 

That was fun...

 

[Graham T]

I haven't given much thought to how I'll do the track diagram yet, to be honest.  I suspect it'll be something of a bodge job in true Chuffnell Regis style

[MrWolf]

I probably should have mentioned that when I said 'track diagram' I meant 'series of scratches on a piece of hardboard' not some fancy piece of engraved mica with the station name, up line, down line and a series of train in section warning lights plus overhead repeater...

[Graham T]

Mine is on a post-it note!

[Nick C]

13 hours ago, Graham T said:

The one step forwards, two back saga continues at Chuffnell Regis.  I've now successfully got six point motors installed and working properly - so I'm over halfway there.  I know some might think the Peco switches are a bit "train set", but I like them, and more importantly I'm pretty sure that my girls will too when they come to visit at Christmas.

 

As to the steps backward.  You'll see that the "lever frame" is currently hovering above a piece of ply.  Which of course it's supposed to be screwed down onto.  With the first attempt at this I cut out an oblong in the centre of the ply for the wiring, but that made it too weak.  So I thought I would just drill a row of holes for the wires instead.  A good idea, eh?  Turns out that no, it wasn't.  I've soldered the wires onto the switch contacts to make sure I have good connectivity, so there's not enough flex on the cables now to get the frame all the way down onto the ply...

 

So.  I think I will have to use my hacksaw to connect the row of holes; that should still leave the ply strong enough, and allow me to route the cables.  The problem of course is that I will have to disconnect everything, modify the ply, and then reconnect all the wiring.  Chances of me getting something crossed?  Outstandingly high I'd imagine!

 

Or another option - cut two lengths of 1/2" square timber to act as spacers, one along the front, one at the back. That'd keep the frame foughly in the position it is now...

[slow8dirty]

You're not alone, I've ended up switching frog polarity on a completely different set of points from the one operated before now. 

[Graham T]

51 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Or another option - cut two lengths of 1/2" square timber to act as spacers, one along the front, one at the back. That'd keep the frame foughly in the position it is now...

 

Interesting idea, thanks Nick.

[Graham T]

30 minutes ago, slow8dirty said:

You're not alone, I've ended up switching frog polarity on a completely different set of points from the one operated before now. 

 

I'm just going to make some random reconnections and see what happens!

[Gedward]

5 hours ago, Graham T said:

Mine is on a post-it note!

 

Mine is tattooed on my arm. Hope we don't change the track plans anytime soon. 

[Graham T]

That's better!  No longer levitating, and the lever numbering makes more sense.  All switches now facing the same way too.  Next job is to clip up all the wiring under the baseboards, and then attack the remaining motors.

 

 

 

PS  It's also been tested, and all the motors still work.  Even though I used all the right wires, just not necessarily in the right order...

Edited April 11, 2022 by Graham T

[Andrew P]

1 hour ago, Graham T said:

That's better!  No longer levitating, and the lever numbering makes more sense.  All switches now facing the same way too.  Next job is to clip up all the wiring under the baseboards, and then attack the remaining motors.

 

 

PS  It's also been tested, and all the motors still work.  Even though I used all the right wires, just not necessarily in the right order...

On Kings Moreton, I had them Colour Coded for Points and Signals etc. and then another bank of 18 for the Fiddle Yard Points.

 

 

[Graham T]

1 hour ago, Andrew P said:

On Kings Moreton, I had them Colour Coded for Points and Signals etc. and then another bank of 18 for the Fiddle Yard Points.

 

 

 

I like what you've done there.  I've actually got some coloured levers for the station throat and the crossover, but I'm still not entirely happy with the shelf that I've got the switches mounted on.

[Graham T]

Aaaaaaand ... we're back.

 

I've been busily bodging while RMWeb has been having a nap.  Eight of the eleven points are now successfully installed.  The problem child still isn't solved so.  I managed to fashion a tiny brass loop and fix it the end of the tiebar, as @5BarVT suggested, but the operating rod still couldn't seem to get enough purchase to throw the point.  So, I took another look at @MrWolf's idea for using the Peco surface mounting gubbins, but underneath the baseboards.

 

After much experimentation and firtling (and a reasonable amount of profanity, too, it must be said), this is what I came up with.  I used two sheets of ply so that I could have a channel for the plastic connecting rod to run in, rather than just rely on a guide screw as per Peco's instructions.  The reason I went for the ply sheet was that it was far easier to assemble and align everything on top of the baseboards rather than underneath.  I threaded a brass operating rod through the plastic connecting rod, and then taped it in place as well.  The pictures probably explain everything far better.

 

Anyway, I eventually got to the point where everything fitted and operated properly.  But ... although the operating rod functions correctly when the motor is in place, the point still doesn't throw.  I think there's just too much flex in the brass rod, so I'm getting a piece of 1mm steel rod to try instead.  Hopefully that will work.  Anyone have any other suggestions?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Graham T

[MrWolf]

Time to get medieval on this thing I think.

I'm trying to come up with something using whatever  you are likely to have kicking around. Your problem is flex at the last bend in the rod, a bit of stainless would probably work but...

 

Cut a strip of that plywood, a few millimetres longer than your plastic affair. Make the ply strip the same width as it is thick, then sand it smooth and slightly undersize all round (only a hair or so.) 

At one end drill a hole to take your motor drive pin.

At the points end, drill a hole that is a tight fit on whatever you are using for the tiebar operating rod. You could use a long panel pin, a nail from one of those little picture books or a bit of a paperclip. Put a smear of super glue on your pin and drive it square into the hole. 

If you run this timber tie bar between your plywood motor mount as a guide and bridge across below to stop it falling out, it should be plenty strong enough. A bit of furniture polish will keep it lubricated.

[Graham T]

Thanks, that sounds like a good idea.  I'll also try with the steel rod; I'm determined to crack this somehow!  Otherwise.... 

 

 

Time to get medieval on this thing I think.

[MrWolf]

KBO old chap!

[Graham T]

I've really been struggling with Chuffnell Regis over the last couple of days.  The profanity store is at its lowest ebb, I'd say.  Try as I might, I can't get the offset point motor to work.  I tried using a piece of ply as per @MrWolf's suggestion to connect the motor operating rod to the steel rod connected to the tiebar, but the wood kept splitting.  Same story when I tried MDF.  The 1mm steel rod idea didn't work either, as I couldn't bend it into a right angle without it snapping.  Eventually I cut a scrap metal bracket down to size and drilled that for the rods, hoping that would eliminate as much of the flex in the system as possible.  The steel rod connecting the metal strip to the tiebar was glued in to stop it being able to flex; I tried soldering it but whatever the metal strip is made of didn't like solder.

 

 

 

But still no joy.  I don't think I am going to be able to make this work.  I could lift and re-lay the point I suppose, so that the point motor can be directly connected to the tiebar.  That would probably throw up umpteen other problems though as I disturb all the surrounding track.  To compound things the layout as whole still isn't running anywhere near as well as it should be (or I would like it to).  I think this is down to the number of compromises (bodges) I've made in the construction so far.  Not making any excuses, but as I haven't built a layout before I have been learning as I go along, and making a lot of mistakes on the way.  Those mistakes have ended up being built into the layout of course, and they're starting to add up.

 

- baseboard construction is shoddy, so that surfaces and joints aren't as smooth as they should be

- tracklaying was also far from perfect, so there are lumps and bumps, poor alignment of joints in places, and some kinks where there shouldn't be

- I only used 2mm cork underlay for the track, so the ballasting hasn't turned out as well as I would have liked

- soldering on the first pieces of track was poor, and so connectivity may not be good in the long term

- painting the track was over enthusiastic, and has given all sorts of problems; the track also seems to get dirty very fast now, so loco running can be poor

- the wiring under the baseboards works (for now) but is a disorganised mess, so if there are any problems later they will be much harder to rectify

 

So all in all I'm seriously considering ripping everything up and starting again before I invest too much more effort into what's increasingly seeming like a bad job.  I'm thinking about:

 

- producing a much more detailed and thought out plan before I start over (measure twice and cut once, in essence)

- getting some modular baseboards, perhaps these

- relaying all the track, and doing it properly this time.  I suspect that I will probably have to replace pretty much all of it, so that's going to be rather expensive too.  I will stay with Code 75 bullhead, and would like to use the Peco bullhead points, but they don't seem to be anywhere closer to production.  The Finetrax point kits also look tempting, but the range is very limited so far

- using a better underlay for the track, perhaps the DCC Concepts 5mm trackbed

- laying the track, connecting point motors, and wiring everything before I fix the baseboards to the walls, so that I can plan and route all the wiring properly, and make sure I have good connectivity on all the droppers

- not painting or ballasting any track until all of the above has been done!

 

So, it's time for quite a major decision I think...  At least all the buildings, the backscenes, and rolling stock can still be used!

Edited April 11, 2022 by Graham T

[AdeMoore]

Hi Graham new poster here but lurked a while!

Big step scrapping the lot! I’m on a 3rd start but the others haven’t been scrapped they are just in waiting!

The smooth running is the key and wired and working well before doing anything else I’ve found.

The foam/cork base I don’t think makes any difference to that I’ve seen folk run um straight on the timber top.

Go away take a break do something else towards it. I’m surprised how I come up with ideas when I was at a dead end sometimes. 
I can’t help with your point actuation conundrum but I suggest don’t throw in the towel yet.

Boiling water on the ballast will release its hold don’t be afraid to rip some out and have another bash at some bits of bad running track.

I have faith like your thread.

Cheers

[37Oban]

Hi,

 

it could be said that my mantra is:  if it's becoming an overwhelming effort to correct things, and there could, nay, will be, more on the horizon, then bite the bullet, and start afresh using what you have learnt to improve the next one.  Salvage what you can and just do it!

 

Every hour rebuilding is better than every hour struggling through, trying to correct problems that only lead to more problems and increasing frustration which in turn leads to less and less enjoyment of the project.  I understand the satisfaction of overcoming a problem , or a couple, but enough is enough!  Have a brew, a biscuit, a bit of a think of what you want then call in the demolition squad!  It may seem drastic, but, in the long term, it's your enjoyment that counts.

 

Roja

[Graham T]

Thanks all for the encouragement.  I'm still pondering the fate of Chuffnell Regis Mk 1...

[Andrew P]

1 hour ago, 37Oban said:

Hi,

 

it could be said that my mantra is:  if it's becoming an overwhelming effort to correct things, and there could, nay, will be, more on the horizon, then bite the bullet, and start afresh using what you have learnt to improve the next one.  Salvage what you can and just do it!

 

Every hour rebuilding is better than every hour struggling through, trying to correct problems that only lead to more problems and increasing frustration which in turn leads to less and less enjoyment of the project.  I understand the satisfaction of overcoming a problem , or a couple, but enough is enough!  Have a brew, a biscuit, a bit of a think of what you want then call in the demolition squad!  It may seem drastic, but, in the long term, it's your enjoyment that counts.

 

Roja

Hi Roja, When I started to read this I was going to disagree with you, as Graham has put a lot of effort and Man hours into it.

BUT, and its a big BUT, the more I read it, the more I understood your logic, and realised I have done the same on more than one occasion.

 

SO, Yes, I agree, its probably the best course of action long term even if very painful in the short term.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Andrew P

[Nick C]

I know how you feel - I ended up in the same situation last year with my previous layout when the shed leaked. It was a good opportunity to make good on a few mistakes I'd made along the way though, particularly with baseboard construction and track laying.

[Graham T]

This may well turn out to be a mistake, but...

 

Whilst it was pondering the menu for the condemned man's last meal, Chuffnell Regis was pleasantly surprised to get a last-minute stay of execution.

 

The powers that be (me) have decided to try replacing the problem point, which is large radius, with a spare medium radius one that I have lying about.

 

 

 

 

As you can see, that will will shift the tiebar position by about 1.5 inches, which is enough that I'll be able to install the point motor in the standard fashion.  All the other point motors are installed and working properly (fingers crossed!)  Using the medium radius point should minimise disruption to the other trackwork, in theory.  I will have to re-do some of the point rodding as well though, unfortunately.  So I plan to have a crack at all of that tomorrow, and also have another track cleaning session to see if I can improve running, along with popping the less-happy locos on the rolling road again - and again!

 

So, the layout will survive - for now.  Let's see how things work out, hopefully the stay of execution won't just be temporary!

Edited April 11, 2022 by Graham T

[Gopher]

Tough call Graham.  My view (many others are available) is If you can't rectify the problems to your satisfaction, it is best to start again.  Dewchurch Mk 1 ended up being scrapped because of poor home made baseboards (and actually a crap track plan).   I think also once you start to lose faith in your own layout/build quality etc.,  it can be hard to get it back, and motivation suffers.

 

If the foundations of any layout (baseboards, track, electrics) are faulty then it can be hard to get consistent, fault free running.   In my experience it is always possible to fix electrical problems , and even poor track laying (i.e. lift it and relay it), but if the baseboards are not level or slightly warped it is hard to fix.

 

My last layout and the proposed layout will have purpose made baseboards.  They are obviously more expensive than home made but  totally flat and level.  Carpentry is not my forte so not a difficult decision for me  to buy them from a  supplier.

 

I totally agree that if you do go for a rebuild,  at the very least lay and wire all the track, install and wire all point motors, and then test everything (again and again) before any scenic work especially ballasting.  Of course this will drive you to drink  (Dewchurch 2 had 28 point motors).  I got totally peed of with the sight of the underneath of the baseboards, and the joy of wiring in track feeds, points, signals etc.  However once it was done and all worked  - it was worth it. 

 

As you say you can salvage many things from the current Chuffnell Regis.  Especially the excellent buildings and other details.  I think it is a brilliant first effort, so don't be disheartened.