Ship stuck across (blocking) the Suez Canal

[john new]

The BBC reporting the ship has been arrested - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56743556 and not going anywhere until what is effectively the release ransom fee is paid.

[MarkC]

The $h1*storm that followed the Humber Pilotage service going down the route that it did was nasty - and one ship I was on suffered damage due to, shall we say, a lack of detailed local knowledge as we approached the berth. (The Humber has some very nasty cross-currents at certain stages of the tide, as do other places, of course, but this one was particularly <interesting>, and really should have been known by the chap supposed to be passing on his experience to the Master...).

 

Getting back to the Ever Given mayhem, I see lots of wibble on several social media sites about the role of the pilot with regard to responsibility. The ignorance shown by the vast majority of commentators is scary - but sadly the British Public's understanding of shipping (and the Laws of the Sea with regard to, inter alia, the daily happenings in the Channel) has pretty much disappeared, as a corollary of the demise of the number of British seafarers. 40 years ago, the majority of British families will have had someone connected with the sea; nowadays, very few do.

 

Mark

[MarkC]

5 minutes ago, john new said:

The BBC reporting the ship has been arrested - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56743556 and not going anywhere until what is effectively the release ransom fee is paid.

Happened a few days ago - the BBC is just catching up...

 

Mark

[chris p bacon]

1 hour ago, Bon Accord said:

 

If the SCA were to attempt to come after me, then a carton of Marlboro and at a push a bottle of cheap export whisky to the right people would I'm sure make the case vanish instantly.

Not forgetting that it's only defamation if it's untrue.

 

 

I can't add anything about recent times but I do know a few things Dad used to say about the canal.

 

The ship was encouraged to throw any rubbish over the side especially barrels so that the locals could 'recycle'.

They used to carry a stock of cigarettes and alcohol for local bribery and the master had access to US dollars for any government official that boarded for a 'tour', they also had a tar covered rope ladder that went over the side should an official wish to board so as to discourage them from doing so.

 If there were any wives on board they were encouraged to stay in the cabin superstructure,  and if they went out on deck were always accompanied by at least one crew member. 

The cabins and rooms were all kept locked, external stair to the bridge was prefered but if internal then crew members were posted at every floor to stop any wandering.

Dad used to say they only thing they never bothered stealing was the cargo!

[MarkC]

Just now, chris p bacon said:

 

I can't add anything about recent times but I do know a few things Dad used to say about the canal.

 

The ship was encouraged to throw any rubbish over the side especially barrels so that the locals could 'recycle'.

They used to carry a stock of cigarettes and alcohol for local bribery and the master had access to US dollars for any government official that boarded for a 'tour', they also had a tar covered rope ladder that went over the side should an official wish to board so as to discourage them from doing so.

 If there were any wives on board they were encouraged to stay in the cabin superstructure,  and if they went out on deck were always accompanied by at least one crew member. 

The cabins and rooms were all kept locked, external stair to the bridge was prefered but if internal then crew members were posted at every floor to stop any wandering.

Dad used to say they only thing they never bothered stealing was the cargo!

We still tell canal virgins that if it's not welded down, it'll walk...

 

We once had a (male) deck cadet traumatised after being cornered by some of the boatmen who had designs on his body - fortunately the bosun saw what was happening & rustled up a rescue party.

 

And I had my ex with me on what was our honeymoon voyage, back in 1984, going through the canal. Slim, leggy, blonde.  I was offered 12 camels (not the cigarette type!) for her. In hindsight...

 

Mark

[alastairq]

Crikey...I was at pre-sea college with the son of the Postmaster-general of Sierra Leone..[useful because dad was a tad well off financially. Which filtered down to us, his son's chums]

It was his intention to 'do what he needed to do', then take the job of Pilot.  Back home.

 

I do hope his skill level improved somewhat over time....

 

I have , for what it's worth [about the same as GCE's, I think...bee useless].....a 2nd Mates Cert. of Competency [foreign].  accumulated my 5 years of sea time{!}..despite the best efforts of those who governed the OND qualifications, and the BOT's efforts to disrupt them....

I did do[ the word 'serve' could never be applied to my life]....near enough 15 months or so as an Uncert 3/O....BP tankers were a trusting lot back in the days when Decca was the tech of the day...and sextants were always in use.  

I wouldn't have let me loose  anywhere near someone else's expensive pride n joy!!!

 

But I have to agree, my recollections of local pilots [local to them] are very mixed indeed.....An awful lot seemed to 'expect' something from our bond store on boarding....

Maybe it was, for them, a 'perk' of the job?  Mustn't judge others by our own standards?

 

Probably dental and medical insurance wasn't on offer back then?

 

Whatever happened to the ''Extra Masters'' ticket??? 

 

 

Driving buses was more exciting than a trip round the cape....and back...and round....and back [repeat until the 6 months was up, and one could go on leave for a month?}

 

Or, being hospitalised in Tobruk!

[Bon Accord]

13 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I can't add anything about recent times but I do know a few things Dad used to say about the canal.

 

The ship was encouraged to throw any rubbish over the side especially barrels so that the locals could 'recycle'.

They used to carry a stock of cigarettes and alcohol for local bribery and the master had access to US dollars for any government official that boarded for a 'tour', they also had a tar covered rope ladder that went over the side should an official wish to board so as to discourage them from doing so.

 If there were any wives on board they were encouraged to stay in the cabin superstructure,  and if they went out on deck were always accompanied by at least one crew member. 

The cabins and rooms were all kept locked, external stair to the bridge was prefered but if internal then crew members were posted at every floor to stop any wandering.

Dad used to say they only thing they never bothered stealing was the cargo!

 

When I went to cargo ships we had to empty out various store rooms for the canal transit and open the doors/hatches, as otherwise this was calculated as cargo space and the canal fee increased accordingly.

The stores were normally deposited in a pile on a well lit hatch cover and a cadet detailed to guard it for the duration of the canal transit, usually issued with a brand new pick axe/sledgehammer handle for the purpose of detering unwelcome visitors and a whistle should he require assitance.

That rigmarole was accepted by all as simply being par for the course.

[Bon Accord]

8 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Crikey...I was at pre-sea college with the son of the Postmaster-general of Sierra Leone..[useful because dad was a tad well off financially. Which filtered down to us, his son's chums]

It was his intention to 'do what he needed to do', then take the job of Pilot.  Back home.

 

I do hope his skill level improved somewhat over time....

 

I have , for what it's worth [about the same as GCE's, I think...bee useless].....a 2nd Mates Cert. of Competency [foreign].  accumulated my 5 years of sea time{!}..despite the best efforts of those who governed the OND qualifications, and the BOT's efforts to disrupt them....

I did do[ the word 'serve' could never be applied to my life]....near enough 15 months or so as an Uncert 3/O....BP tankers were a trusting lot back in the days when Decca was the tech of the day...and sextants were always in use.  

I wouldn't have let me loose  anywhere near someone else's expensive pride n joy!!!

 

But I have to agree, my recollections of local pilots [local to them] are very mixed indeed.....An awful lot seemed to 'expect' something from our bond store on boarding....

Maybe it was, for them, a 'perk' of the job?  Mustn't judge others by our own standards?

 

Probably dental and medical insurance wasn't on offer back then?

 

Whatever happened to the ''Extra Masters'' ticket??? 

 

 

Driving buses was more exciting than a trip round the cape....and back...and round....and back [repeat until the 6 months was up, and one could go on leave for a month?}

 

Or, being hospitalised in Tobruk!

 

As I remember Extra Masters and Extra Chiefs disappeared sometime in the 1990s - about '98 I think - just before the implementation of STCW '95.

[62613]

25 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I can't add anything about recent times but I do know a few things Dad used to say about the canal.

 

The ship was encouraged to throw any rubbish over the side especially barrels so that the locals could 'recycle'.

They used to carry a stock of cigarettes and alcohol for local bribery and the master had access to US dollars for any government official that boarded for a 'tour', they also had a tar covered rope ladder that went over the side should an official wish to board so as to discourage them from doing so.

 If there were any wives on board they were encouraged to stay in the cabin superstructure,  and if they went out on deck were always accompanied by at least one crew member. 

The cabins and rooms were all kept locked, external stair to the bridge was prefered but if internal then crew members were posted at every floor to stop any wandering.

Dad used to say they only thing they never bothered stealing was the cargo!

Yes, the only place I ever locked my cabin door when I was in the cabin! (m.v. Border Shepherd, 1976)

Edited April 14, 2021 by 62613

[37114]

22 minutes ago, MarkC said:

We still tell canal virgins that if it's not welded down, it'll walk...

 

We once had a (male) deck cadet traumatised after being cornered by some of the boatmen who had designs on his body - fortunately the bosun saw what was happening & rustled up a rescue party.

 

And I had my ex with me on what was our honeymoon voyage, back in 1984, going through the canal. Slim, leggy, blonde.  I was offered 12 camels (not the cigarette type!) for her. In hindsight...

 

Mark

I was offered 20 Camels for my wife so she is obviously a looker (which she is) or there had been rampant inflation by 2007... We were on the group tour and one day one of the single women asked to join us when we went for a walk round Luxor. Walking around with 2 western women just meant the 1 liners trotted out ramped up to another level the class being "Lucky man 2 wives, how many Camels for one?" The girl with us then started to look very nervous when I put on my "thinking" face...

[Markwj]

On what basis is the evergreen owner going to be fined, has Egypt lost money through the canal being closed and ships being rerouted or delayed?

[kevinlms]

18 minutes ago, Markwj said:

On what basis is the evergreen owner going to be fined, has Egypt lost money through the canal being closed and ships being rerouted or delayed?

6 days (minimum) of no transit. Of course they lost money.

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, Legend said:

It is quite amazing the ripple effect in international trade of this incident .  One of the factories I represent is having its shipments out delayed  because of the disruption to shipping schedules  as a result of Suez blockage . 

So have ships started arriving at places like Rotterdam yet?

[admiles]

2 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

So have ships started arriving at places like Rotterdam yet?

Yes!

[admiles]

6 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

6 days (minimum) of no transit. Of course they lost money.

 

And with the cost of a transit being US$200000 plus each way for the larger ships, quite a lot of money too!

[kevinlms]

2 minutes ago, admiles said:

 

And with the cost of a transit being US$200000 plus each way for the larger ships, quite a lot of money too!

And due to geography constraints, a monopoly forever. All they have to do is keep widening/deepening it. How long until the southern end gets duplicated now?

[admiles]

4 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

And due to geography constraints, a monopoly forever. All they have to do is keep widening/deepening it. How long until the southern end gets duplicated now?

 

Apparently the Israelis have a plan to link the Red Sea to the Med with a rival canal.  Not sure how true this is but I'd imagine it would stoke Arab-Jewish tensions nicely!

[Reorte]

6 minutes ago, admiles said:

 

Apparently the Israelis have a plan to link the Red Sea to the Med with a rival canal.  Not sure how true this is but I'd imagine it would stoke Arab-Jewish tensions nicely!

Wasn't that a story published on the 1st April? There was certainly one along those lines, the spokesman "Mo Sez" being one giveaway

[admiles]

43 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Wasn't that a story published on the 1st April? There was certainly one along those lines, the spokesman "Mo Sez" being one giveaway

 

No idea, could have been. If it was I read in a trade journal last week (they're not known for they're humor!)

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, admiles said:

 

And with the cost of a transit being US$200000 plus each way for the larger ships, quite a lot of money too!

Negligible really, most ships anchored around the med or suez gulf waiting a path.

more like revenue delayed, if it was wasn't pre-paid or on account already.

 

my armchair hypothesis..

 

I think weve seen the first stage of an Egyptian haggle.

Stage 1 Usually they wont ask you to pay, but ask you how much you want to pay.

Stage 2, if forced the seller creates a magnificent finger in the air number.

Stage 3, if rejected play your power card, and pretend urgency is of no importance.

Lots of banter follows.

 

time is money.
 

The fact the ship is ok, puts the price up.. had the ship been damaged badly its tempting to write it off...but that also means the pressure to make a deal is more important

 

They know some goods on board this vessel will waste to zero value, and much of that will depreciate within several months. (Perishables expire, goods can be replaced etc).
Ultimately everything will waste to scrap value (but thats several years away).
 

Conversely within the organisational structure.. there will be an expectation of payments, plans to advance, “commissions”, “bonuses” etc.. They've already overtly asked for a $300mn “bonus” as part of the $900m, another $300mn for public image damage. $900mn doesnt include the rescue costs itself. 

No one wants to wait for money...

 

These payment expectations  will get louder, from the guy with the digger upto the officials who have no idea the ship even existed.. as money doesnt walk the streets, pressure will grow to put money in pockets..if theres no money to share anger will raise and various people will become exposed, so pressure to settle will grow from within.

 

Stage 4.. no point separating actual costs from actual demands, the two arent really related, its about how much vs how fast... the value declining vs the pressure to get a deal.

Stage 5 Rhetoric.. “Keep it I dont want it” vs “I’ll keep you waiting as long as I want”.

Stage 6 Delay.. both sides burn down some time.

Stage 7.. pressure to close, the insurance company will have an upper payout limit, the Egyptians will have an idea what it is all along, they’ll take it and get the ship out.

 

Based on dealing in Egypt before, I reckon it’ll be about 10% of the ask, and the actual costs paid separately.. its just a matter of time.. 6months or less. If it all goes south.. then it’ll just rot and be abandoned.

 

Dont see much politics here, its a mostly asian venture with western goods, had it been a Western European shipping line / ship, then I reckon it will have got a bit more fruity, but western politicians arent going to care about a ship full of replaceable insured consumables.

$300mn was suggested as reputational damage.
one thing that probably wont come into it will be blame.. if fault starts being thrown about, it’ll go south. The figure is a warning not to make this overtly public.. the more the squealing in public, the harder this figure is to roll back on.

Thats all my guess.

 

 

...

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by adb968008

[Night Train]

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

6 days (minimum) of no transit. Of course they lost money.

I thought most of the ships waited until the canal was claear then made transit. So minimal losses to the canal company on transit fees. Accepted a few ships went the long way, but not many.

[admiles]

3 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Negligible really, most ships anchored around the med or suez gulf waiting a path.

more like revenue delayed, if it was wasn't pre-paid or on account already.

 

my armchair hypothesis..

 

I think weve seen the first stage of an Egyptian haggle.

Stage 1 Usually they wont ask you to pay, but ask you how much you want to pay.

Stage 2, if forced the seller creates a magnificent finger in the air number.

Stage 3, if rejected play your power card, and pretend urgency is of no importance.

Lots of banter follows.

 

time is money.
 

The fact the ship is ok, puts the price up.. had the ship been damaged badly its tempting to write it off...but that also means the pressure to make a deal is more important

 

They know some goods on board this vessel will waste to zero value, and much of that will depreciate within several months. (Perishables expire, goods can be replaced etc).
Ultimately everything will waste to scrap value (but thats several years away).
 

Conversely within the organisational structure.. there will be an expectation of payments, plans to advance, “commissions”, “bonuses” etc.. They've already overtly asked for a $300mn “bonus” as part of the $900m, another $300mn for public image damage. $900mn doesnt include the rescue costs itself. 

No one wants to wait for money...

 

These payment expectations  will get louder, from the guy with the digger upto the officials who have no idea the ship even existed.. as money doesnt walk the streets, pressure will grow to put money in pockets..if theres no money to share anger will raise and various people will become exposed, so pressure to settle will grow from within.

 

Stage 4.. no point separating actual costs from actual demands, the two arent really related, its about how much vs how fast... the value declining vs the pressure to get a deal.

Stage 5 Rhetoric.. “Keep the it I dont want it” vs “I’ll keep you waiting as long as I want”.

Stage 6 Delay.. both sides burn down some time.

Stage 7.. pressure to close, the insurance company will have an upper payout limit, the Egyptians will have an idea what it is all along, they’ll take it and get the ship out.

 

Based on dealing in Egypt before, I reckon it’ll be about 10% of the ask, and the actual costs paid separately.. its just a matter of time.. 6months or less. If it all goes south.. then it’ll just rot and be abandoned.

 

Dont see much politics here, its a mostly asian venture with western goods, had it been a Western European shipping line / ship, then I reckon it will have got a bit more fruity, but western politicians arent going to care about a ship full of replaceable insured consumables.

$300mn was suggested as reputational damage.
one thing that probably wont come into it will be blame.. if fault starts being thrown about, it’ll go south. The figure is a warning not to make this overtly public.. the more the squealing in public, the harder this figure is to roll back on.

Thats all my guess.

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

Grab a comfy chair, what flavour popcorn would Sir like? ....sit back and enjoy the show

[Reorte]

18 minutes ago, Night Train said:

I thought most of the ships waited until the canal was claear then made transit. So minimal losses to the canal company on transit fees. Accepted a few ships went the long way, but not many.

But that'll have delayed the ones behind them, they won't be able to cram more ships through to make up the backlog I wouldn't have thought. A little perhaps but hasn't the canal been operating at close to capacity for a while now (hence the doubling of the northern section)?

[The Stationmaster]

I was told a good many years ago that the North African system of bargaining (including Egypt) was that the seller would ask for twice what he thought the item would actually fetch and the buyer should offer one third of what was asked but obviously be prepared to pay more than that.  Depending on how things went and how enjoyable, or not. the two parties found the bargaining the price would be struck somewhere in the region of half of what had been asked in the first place.  In my experience that seemed to work reliably but of course in such transactions there wasn't a ship which could be taken as a hostage.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 but of course in such transactions there wasn't a ship which could be taken as a hostage.

 

On a somewhat related note I read this book a while ago about a bloke who recovers ships from being held hostage. An interesting read given that ships are quite hard to sneakily make off with.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01HPVH7G6