Helston Revisited

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

There's a bit of a knack to making them but once you've built a few and settled into your own way then they are easy to build. Fitting - how long is a piece of string? You need to make sure that the buffing plate is just in front of the buffers and the bottom of the buffing plate is a constant height above rail level About 8mm works well in my, and others', experience.

 

Once fitted and adjusted they are indeed very reliable.

Great - I will get some in and have a go and see how I get on. My ambition is an automated fiddle yard but that may be beyond my skills. If I can do it I can then operate the Helston box by hand and the fiddle yard can do its thing to support movements in and out.

Andy

[Regularity]

One question before we get away from signalling. What was the locking/lever arrangement before the diamond crossing was removed?

[MJI]

2 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

The early use of the stone siding is a mystery to me. In '58 it was restored and as you say ex LMS hoppers are shown in photos but I don't have any photos of the pre '32 working of the stone siding so will be making that up as I go along unless something turns up.

Andy

 

 

I have no idea what the GWR used as the only hoppers appeared to be grain or ballast, cannot find ANYTHING about pre 32 Sepentine traffic and only minimal about 1950s/60s

[5BarVT]

59 minutes ago, Regularity said:

One question before we get away from signalling. What was the locking/lever arrangement before the diamond crossing was removed?

Don’t know for sure, but I’m working on it.  I can see a need for 13 of the 14 original levers and I’m trying to make an educated guess as to how they might have been arranged.

Watch this space, but be prepared to keep watching and possibly to prod too.

Paul.

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

One question before we get away from signalling. What was the locking/lever arrangement before the diamond crossing was removed?

Not at all sure - clearly the first layout (which was changed in 1915) aimed to avoid facing points so no blue levers or locks. There are some photos of this track layout but since it was pre GWR maybe no records of the frame remain. I wonder if the full Board of Trade inspector's report from 1887 is available to anyone. S.C. Jemkins's "book of the line" only includes a few snippets from this. The 1915 report apparently states the box "contains a frame of 14 levers, all of which are now in use" which implies prior to the change some were not.

Andy

Edited July 11, 2021 by Andy Keane

[Andy Keane]

Having return from hols I am now back painting the Loco Shed while I wait for three major deliveries: 1) the base board plywood kits, 2) the entrance throat from MarcWay and a whole pile of Peco code 75 from Rails of Sheffield. I plan to paint the window cills dark stone unless somebody knows any better. I also assume from the photos that the ridges had rust coloured tiles rather than the lead used on the station building.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Andy Keane
spelling (again)

[MJI]

Are the corners brick coloured, difficult to tell from the Helston History site?

[Andy Keane]

54 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

 

I have no idea what the GWR used as the only hoppers appeared to be grain or ballast, cannot find ANYTHING about pre 32 Sepentine traffic and only minimal about 1950s/60s

I am guessing from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway_wagons that some form of N diagram wagon was used back then. If somebody had access to the Atkins et al two volume set cited there maybe it would become clearer? Since I plan to model the siding and stone chute I will need to have something to shunt in there.

Andy

Edited July 11, 2021 by Andy Keane

[Andy Keane]

On 11/07/2021 at 15:15, MJI said:

Are the corners brick coloured, difficult to tell from the Helston History site?

The Pat English drawing say the corners should be red brick but he says this of the goods shed as well but we know that is wrong as its still there, so I am painting the engine shed to match the goods shed - they are very similar styles and built at the same time (notably the statioin building itself is quite different):

 

 

 

NB the commercially available goods shed kit for O gauge follows the Pat English drawing and has the road entrance to the goods shed as a circular arch but as my photos show it is in fact an elliptical one - a key difference to the engine shed which definitely did have a circular arch. It just goes to show that not all documented sources are reliable.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Andy Keane

[MJI]

I found this while looking for other pictures

http://www.helstonhistory.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/helstonrailway1965i.jpg

[MJI]

13 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

I am guessing from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway_wagons that some form of N diagram wagon was used back then. If somebody had access to the Atkins et al two volume set cited there maybe it would become clearer? Since I plan to model the siding and stone chute I will need to havce something to shunt in there.

Andy

 

 

As usual nothing much available, loco coal / mineral.

[Andy Keane]

4 minutes ago, MJI said:

I found this while looking for other pictures

http://www.helstonhistory.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/helstonrailway1965i.jpg

Rats! that shows the bricks as red! how come the goods shed has yellow ones and the loco shed red - an easy fix but it seems most unlikely.

Andy

[MJI]

No idea but I am happy to help!

 

I am currently glueing lintels onto my station building, all because I had to go and buy a Dapol NBL type 2!

 

Found loads of colour pictures, looks like a lot of engineering blue bricks.

Edited July 11, 2021 by MJI

[MJI]

This is the site I used

 

http://www.helstonhistory.co.uk/helstons-shops-transport/helston-branch-railway/

 

http://www.helstonhistory.co.uk/helstons-shops-transport/helston-railway-station-1965/

 

My reference

http://www.helstonhistory.co.uk/helstons-shops-transport/nancegollan-station-1965/

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

Don’t know for sure, but I’m working on it.  I can see a need for 13 of the 14 original levers and I’m trying to make an educated guess as to how they might have been arranged.

Watch this space, but be prepared to keep watching and possibly to prod too.

Paul.

Paul

MJI pointed me to this set of pictures http://www.helstonhistory.co.uk/helstons-shops-transport/helston-railway-station-1965/ and in particular this one: http://www.helstonhistory.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/helstonrailway1965l.jpg. What is the point rodding coming through the bridge arch for - it seems to come much further than the blades of te entrance point?

regards

Andy

[Harlequin]

6 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Paul

MJI pointed me to this set of pictures http://www.helstonhistory.co.uk/helstons-shops-transport/helston-railway-station-1965/ and in particular this one: http://www.helstonhistory.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/helstonrailway1965l.jpg. What is the point rodding coming through the bridge arch for - it seems to come much further than the blades of te entrance point?

regards

Andy

I think the rodding passing under the bridge is associated with a fouling bar, which I think you can see inside the further rail. It's a mechanical interlock to prevent the points being operated while vehicles are still fouling the points and I suspect it's there because the bridge obstructs the view from the 'Box.

 

 

[Andy Keane]

4 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

I think the rodding passing under the bridge is associated with a fouling bar, which I think you can see inside the further rail. It's a mechanical interlock to prevent the points being operated while vehicles are still fouling the points and I suspect it's there because the bridge obstructs the view from the 'Box.

 

 

Ah yes I see - would that have its own lever or be driven by those for the entrance point and its FPL? having three levers for that point would seem excessive!

Andy

[5BarVT]

8 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

I think the rodding passing under the bridge is associated with a fouling bar, which I think you can see inside the further rail. It's a mechanical interlock to prevent the points being operated while vehicles are still fouling the points and I suspect it's there because the bridge obstructs the view from the 'Box.

Looking at this photo on the Cornwall Railways Helston page (http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/uploads/7/6/8/3/7683812/___5410201_orig.jpg) I think that there are only two rods going through the bridge, point and FPL.  The third rod is for the points to the loading dock and stops before the bridge.

Paul.

[Andy Keane]

4 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Looking at this photo on the Cornwall Railways Helston page (http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/uploads/7/6/8/3/7683812/___5410201_orig.jpg) I think that there are only two rods going through the bridge, point and FPL.  The third rod is for the points to the loading dock and stops before the bridge.

Paul.

Looking again I think the rodding coming under the bridge is directly connected to the rodding driving the point blades by some form of crank (hard to see) and if this was an anti-fouling measure I guess it was some cunning system that stops the point being thrown if the fouling bar detects a wheel?

[Harlequin]

3 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Looking again I think the rodding coming under the bridge is directly connected to the rodding driving the point blades by some form of crank (hard to see) and if this was an anti-fouling measure I guess it was some cunning system that stops the point being thrown if the fouling bar detects a wheel?

Exactly.

 

[Regularity]

5 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Don’t know for sure, but I’m working on it.  I can see a need for 13 of the 14 original levers and I’m trying to make an educated guess as to how they might have been arranged.

There may well have been a few “dependent” ground signals, linked to the switch rods.

[5BarVT]

5 minutes ago, Regularity said:

There may well have been a few “dependent” ground signals, linked to the switch rods.

Based on photos, I would say all bar one, that being from the platform line towards the carriage shed.

Paul.

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Looking at this photo on the Cornwall Railways Helston page (http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/uploads/7/6/8/3/7683812/___5410201_orig.jpg) I think that there are only two rods going through the bridge, point and FPL.  The third rod is for the points to the loading dock and stops before the bridge.

Paul.

 

18 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Looking again I think the rodding coming under the bridge is directly connected to the rodding driving the point blades by some form of crank (hard to see) and if this was an anti-fouling measure I guess it was some cunning system that stops the point being thrown if the fouling bar detects a wheel?

The single rod which extends beyond the bridge is the one that operates the facing point lock(Ing) bar (as visible in the photo (it is a locking bar, not a fouling bar).  The locking bar would in turn drive the actual facing point bolt fitted to the front stretcher of the point.  The other rod drives the poiint switches so ends at the crank which in turn drives the switch.  That rod would also drive the trap in the loop/goods shed road.

 

The third rod visible in the photo taken from the platform end drives the point where the back siding comes off the loop/goods shed road and the trap associated with it.

 

Sorry the drawing is not the best in the world but I didn't want to damage the book putting too much pressure on the spine -

 

[5BarVT]

14 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

The single rod which extends beyond the bridge is the one that operates the facing point lock(Ing) bar (as visible in the photo (it is a locking bar, not a fouling bar).  The locking bar would in turn drive the actual facing point bolt fitted to the front stretcher of the point.  The other rod drives the poiint switches so ends at the crank which in turn drives the switch.

As shown in this photo, also from the Cornwall Railways site.

 

15 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

That rod would also drive the trap in the loop/goods shed road.

Normally, yes, but for some reason, not at Helston when the new frame went in.  The trap was on a separate lever.

Don't ask me why!  Possibly ‘history’ of drivers going because the traps were over when the road was actually set from the loading dock.

Paul.

[Harlequin]

53 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

The single rod which extends beyond the bridge is the one that operates the facing point lock(Ing) bar (as visible in the photo (it is a locking bar, not a fouling bar).  The locking bar would in turn drive the actual facing point bolt fitted to the front stretcher of the point.  The other rod drives the poiint switches so ends at the crank which in turn drives the switch.  That rod would also drive the trap in the loop/goods shed road.

 

The third rod visible in the photo taken from the platform end drives the point where the back siding comes off the loop/goods shed road and the trap associated with it.

 

Sorry the drawing is not the best in the world but I didn't want to damage the book putting too much pressure on the spine -

 

 

Is it called a lock(ing) bar rather than a fouling bar because it's associated with an FPL? When there is no FPL involved would the similar mechanism be called a "fouling bar" ?