2500 Gallon Tender Buffer Beam

[5050]

I'm currently nearing the end of my Dean Goods build using a Mainline body on a Mallard chassis for the loco and a Mainline tender with a scratchbuilt chassis (for an electrically live pickup system and weighted on the loco drawbar).  At first I only had the tender top and acquired an underframe from Peter's Trains.  What I hadn't realised was that the buffer beam was not included.  I'm quite happy to make this myself but I can't find a photo of the rear in order to place the rivet heads etc. in the correct places.  Could anyone point me in the right direction to find a photo or a drawing? Russell's books don't seem to have drawings of tender ends - or at least not the 2500 gall one.

[Steamport Southport]

Some photos here of various tenders. Not that many rear views though.

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-tenders.html

 

I don't know whether there is any information you can gather from the Brassmasters kit instructions.

 

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/gwr_dean_2500_gallon_tender.htm

 

If you click on the photos of the etchings they enlarge.

 

 

Jason

[Miss Prism]

7 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

If you click on the photos of the etchings they enlarge.

 

Yes, it's part 37. Here's the rear of CoT's tender

 

[5050]

Thanks for those quick replies.  I've looked at the gwr.org site and sadly it wasn't that much help.  Is CoT's tender the same as a Dean Goods one? If so I could use the Brassmaster's etch for a pattern but I thought it was a bit different?

[Miss Prism]

34 minutes ago, 5050 said:

Is CoT's tender the same as a Dean Goods one?

 

In respect of rear buffer beam width, yes - 7'6"

 

[5050]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

 

In respect of rear buffer beam width, yes - 7'6"

 

Does it also have the 'recessed' section between the buffers? 

[Brassey]

3 hours ago, 5050 said:

  Is CoT's tender the same as a Dean Goods one?

The CoT tender was 3000 gall whereas the earlier Dean Goods ran with 2500. However some RTR Dean Goods were coupled with 3000 gal tenders so, for example, the High Level Dean tender chassis is for the 3000 gal version. 

[5050]

30 minutes ago, Brassey said:

The CoT tender was 3000 gall whereas the earlier Dean Goods ran with 2500. However some RTR Dean Goods were coupled with 3000 gal tenders so, for example, the High Level Dean tender chassis is for the 3000 gal version. 

So is the Mailine tender a 3000 or 2500 one?  I'm supposing the latter TBH.

[Miss Prism]

3 hours ago, 5050 said:

Does it also have the 'recessed' section between the buffers? 

 

I can't recall seeing a pre-Collett tender without the recess.

 

Quote

So is the Mailine tender a 3000 or 2500 one?  I'm supposing the latter TBH.

 

It is 3000g. What is its platform width?

 

[Brassey]

12 hours ago, 5050 said:

So is the Mailine tender a 3000 or 2500 one?  I'm supposing the latter TBH.

 

 

As per the OP, Brassmasters sell a 2500 gal tender which is correct for the earlier DG

 

 

[Wenrash]

My understanding is that the 2500 gal tenders had wheel spacings of 6ft-6in whereas the 3000 gal tenders had wheel spacings oh 7ft-6in. Thereby making the 3000's 2ft longer. The across dimensions were the same. Ref Russell Vol 1 drawings.

 

Richard A

[5050]

Many thanks for everyones' help with this.  I suppose I should have checked a bit more deeply with Jim Russell's excellent tomes before posting but I couldn't see anything there as specific as the info. you've all provided.

 

Just waiting for some Dean loco buffers to arrive from Alan Gibson and then I can get on with the job.

 

I did start a thread in the Kit and Scratchbuilding section but it needs some considerable updating!

Edited April 10, 2021 by 5050

[Jeff Smith]

20 hours ago, Brassey said:

The CoT tender was 3000 gall whereas the earlier Dean Goods ran with 2500. However some RTR Dean Goods were coupled with 3000 gal tenders so, for example, the High Level Dean tender chassis is for the 3000 gal version. 

Likewise the Comet Dean Goods tender chassis and inside chassis.  7'6 + 7'6.

 

Shown here with K's body (must straighten that buffer....)

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Jeff Smith

[5050]

I'm still rather confused.  Whilst trawling the web (something I should probably have done before posting!!) I found this comparison between the Mainline/Hornby version of Dean Goods and the Oxford Rail one.

 

https://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t52551.html

 

Scrolling down there is a photo of the tender rears side by side - and the buffer beams are different!  Which is correct?  Both versions appear to be coupled to a 3000 gall tender.  Is the left hand Mainline one correct for a 3000 gall tender and the Oxford one on the right only for a 2500 gall one and therefore wrong?  Or were both designs correct for 3000 gall tenders manufactured at different dates?  Looking at Jeff's post above it would seem Comet decided on the 'Mainline' version whereas Finney/Brassmasters went for the 'Oxford' one.

 

EDIT - just had a thought.  I wonder if Mainline - for reasons of economy and simplicity - simply used the loco bufferbeam (which is a separate push-fit moulding) for the tender rather than making a different one?

Edited April 12, 2021 by 5050

[Miss Prism]

The Mainline/Dapol/Hornby tender used on its Dean Goods is an early pattern Dean 3000g. The tender used by Oxford for its DG is an early pattern Dean 2500g. Both have coffin fillers.

 

Regarding the recess on the lower part of the rear buffer beam, it is possible the early 2500g tenders did not have such a recess, but I have never seen evidence of such a state. I doubt whether Mainline did either. Your 'same plug-in buffer beam' notion is very plausible.

 

[5050]

So, the question now is - 'which tender did 2538 have during its last days at Oswestry?'

 

Answers on a postcard etc.....................................

 

Actually, it was a 3000gall one but I can't find a good photo of the tender rear.  Several photos of the loco in action in various Bradford Bartons etc. but mainly 3/4 front views.

[Miss Prism]

Oswestry, 31 March 1957

 

2500g

 

[martinT]

48 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

Regarding the recess on the lower part of the rear buffer beam, it is possible the early 2500g tenders did not have such a recess, but I have never seen evidence of such a state. I doubt whether Mainline did either. Your 'same plug-in buffer beam' notion is very plausible.

The 2500g tender preserved with 2516 at STEAM (1273 of Lot A33) certainly does have a recess, see the relevant photo towards the end of this extensive set by Alan Buttler in his blog:

Martin

 

[5050]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

Oswestry, 31 March 1957

 

2500g

 

So, the one supplied by Mainline/Hornby with their 2538 isn't correct.  Given how much work I've done on it to press I'll have to find another suitable candidate!  Looking at Alan's photos it can't be 2516 either.

 

Alan's photos are extremely useful, I wish I'd found them before I started!  I think I'll go along with the 'recessed' beam, it's a bit more 'characterful'.

Edited April 12, 2021 by 5050

[Jeff Smith]

If it's relevant the two K's 3000 gall tenders for the Mogul (rivetted) and Dean Goods (smooth sided) were both recessed.

[5050]

I've made a beam using the image from the Brassmasters site, cropped down to the bufferbeam only, printed it scaled to 30mm wide, pricked out the rivets with a pin, trimmed it to size and solvent fixed it to a suitably sized piece of 20thou styrene.  After drilling holes, Gibson Dean buffers have been attached and the whole is now ready for a coat of red paint - after I've fretted out the hole for the hook.

 

Thanks for all your comments etc.  In due course I'll attach photos to my Dean Goods thread.

[5050]

Photo of the beam now painted (a bit roughly I'm afraid although it is much larger in the photo than in real life!) with hook and buffer heads to be attached.  I hope it looks like a bufferbeam that has had a hard life and in need of retirement.

 

 

The 'hook plate' (don't know the correct term) is from an old etch of PC couplings.

[Quarryscapes]

2538 is best done from an Early Oxford Rail loco as it has the correct cab and tender. All RTR tenders will need the D shaped fillers changing to ome and separate fillers. (I can provide 3D printed items). I can't think of any at Oswestry that ran with 3000g tenders, at least in the BR period. It is possible to shorten the mainline tender if necessary. 

 

 

[Quarryscapes]

This is my 2538 from an Oxford Rail: 

 

 

 

 

 

I moved the washer plugs, changed the chimney, changed smokebox door, lost the top feed and replaced the tender water fittings as mentioned. Lamp irons should be moved as well but I can livewith that. 

 

 

[5050]

"Lamp irons should be moved as well but I can livewith that."

 

Yes, 2538 seems to be the only one I can find that has the lamp irons positioned on the sandbox fronts.  TBH, I'm getting to the point now that I will be considering the job done as I'm not really prepared to do a lot more hacking etc. or changing the tender for a 2500 one.  I can live with it as it is and I doubt that it will see much - if any - actual layout running.