Solar panels

[Torper]

I undertook a survey as to how cost effective solar panels would be for me.  I've got a south facing house in the east of Scotland which is probably as good as you can get in Scotland for solar.  I was told that it would take 14½ years to break even on my initial investment  but it would be profit all the way after that.  Now while I accept that increasing energy prices my well reduce the time it'll take to break even, the fact nevertheless remains that I'm now in the second half of my eighth decade and who knows whether I'll still be on this earth, far less in this house, in 14 years time, though I may well be needing some of my fairly meagre capital by then.  So they're not really a very atractive proposition for me although if generous grants were to become available I might change my mind.  Actually they're not really a very attractive proposition at all - I do think they're very ugly!

 

DT

Edited February 1, 2022 by Torper

[hayfield]

I am approaching my 70th birthday this year and like most retired people on what they classify a fixed income,  I look at all my investments including deposit accounts, which basically make the bank and those who they lend it to money and give their investors nothing. So basically taking money from an area which is loosing value against inflation into an area which would save me is plain common sense.

 

I would expect at least one of us will still be living in 10 years time as my wife's family seem to live quite long. But I took the advice of an estate agent as well and this was before the current price hikes in the cost of energy. Whilst they were unsure if it would effect the price much, and lets face it I only spent £2600  it probably has more of an affect on the properties desirability and certainly boosts the energy efficiency on the properties details, but if the seller can show in pounds shillings and pence the benefit of what will be free power it must have a positive effect on the price. Certainly the energy cost of  running properties will be higher on the agenda

 

In my case I swapped the money I put aside for an Italian holiday in 2020 for the panels, as I write this my computer is being powered along with everything else by my panels

 

As for their benefit in Scotland will depend on hours of sunshine within the year, though I think further south we gain from the sun being higher in the sky. But with energy prices increasing it must be better news for generating your own power, how about a wind turbine ? 

[Tony_S]

My certificates to claim for exported electricity have finally arrived and I have applied for payments. My electricity meter is ok and in fact can already display exports to the grid that we aren’t being paid for yet.

I thought I would share a photo of our battery storage. It is in the garage below the inverter and near the fuse box and meter. 
There are three 2.4kW lithium batteries. They are in what I think is a 19” rack system. The white pipe insulation is to stop me walking into them!
With all the certificates there was some advice to fit a fire detector in the same room as the batteries. One is on its way from Screwfix!  The battery system we have does have over temperature protection to reduce fire risk but the heat sensor fire alarm seems sensible. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Tony_S

[hayfield]

I was most peeved when we lost power last Friday, my panels were producing electricity, but due to what I can only say is a poor design the main box has to be plugged into the mains supply. No one said my solar system would stop if the power went off. OK if I had a battery it would still be working, but my solar panels were producing power yet not fed into the main operating part

 

 

[Ian Morgan]

I believe that is fairly standard. Being able to run the house off solar panels (or batteries) during a power cut required some extra expensive hardware.

 

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, Ian Morgan said:

I believe that is fairly standard. Being able to run the house off solar panels (or batteries) during a power cut required some extra expensive hardware.

 

 

Ian

 

I am no electrician, so do not understand the issues properly, but electricity flows direct from my roof when the sunshine's, I have first call on that power when its producing and my house has no need to draw on the network unless I need to use more power than I am producing. At the time of the power cut I was self sufficient in power production, the machine was not drawing any currant from the grid. To me it looks like a very poor design which allows the system to shut off when its already working well on its own. As it happens I assume I was exporting everything to the grid, but it was not registering !!  

[trevora]

6 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

o me it looks like a very poor design which allows the system to shut off when its already working well on its own. As it happens I assume I was exporting everything to the grid, but it was not registering !!  

It needs the grid for reference so no grid no reference

Also it would feed power into a "dead" grid and could kill anyone working on it

[hayfield]

1 minute ago, trevora said:

It needs the grid for reference so no grid no reference

Also it would feed power into a "dead" grid and could kill anyone working on it

 

Thanks for the explanation, I still feel its a bit of a cop out as it then isolates its self when the grid goes down, but its still producing power ? why cannot it use it ?

[idd15]

It can but it needs an automatic switch that isolates you from the grid when the grid is down. When the grid comes back up then it will automatically connect your inverter back to the grid. It's important it works like this to ensure the safety of anyone working on the grid supply.

 

Check with your supplier to see if they offer such a device that is compatible with your inverter. You may find that depending on the number of power cuts you have it is not really worth the additional cost.

 

Good to see the success you are having with your panels. Ours celebrate 10 years this year.

HTH

Idd

 

 

[stewartingram]

Basically a c/o relay powered off the grid then?

[hayfield]

23 minutes ago, idd15 said:

It can but it needs an automatic switch that isolates you from the grid when the grid is down. When the grid comes back up then it will automatically connect your inverter back to the grid. It's important it works like this to ensure the safety of anyone working on the grid supply.

 

Check with your supplier to see if they offer such a device that is compatible with your inverter. You may find that depending on the number of power cuts you have it is not really worth the additional cost.

 

Good to see the success you are having with your panels. Ours celebrate 10 years this year.

HTH

Idd

 

 

 

What happened is just an irritation and thankfully a year or so ago Network Power altered some cables which resulted in far fewer power cuts, we live in a village whee most of the houses are fed by underground cables, however the village is surrounded by both common and woodland and many houses are fed by overhead cables. We were lucky as we had a 2 hour power cut, many had 8 hours or more and a few were waiting few days

 

But I have only had the system since September so have gone through the worst few months and not benefitting from FIT contracts. Still I have seen my consumption fall by 30% against last year and my bills are still lower than last year. I assume the major gains will be over the next 7/8 months. Certainly the fees for exporting I am now receiving are twice those assumed on the initial illustration, and with the new tariff looking to be vastly more than the 16p per KWH assumed in the illustration. All of a sudden the sun is noticeably higher in the sky and power generation is increasing, happy days

[Tony_S]

I knew the system would cut out in the event of a power cut as it was one of the questions I asked the surveyor. I also asked if I had to do anything when power was restored. The electrician who installed it simulated a power cut to show me that everything restarted automatically. There will need to be some sort of adjustment to our system. There is at present a limit to how much we can export but the grid approval said it can be removed as our local system is robust enough to cope with the situation of us not using anything and exporting the maximum on a sunny day. Not a problem at present.  

[hayfield]

9 hours ago, Tony_S said:

I knew the system would cut out in the event of a power cut as it was one of the questions I asked the surveyor. I also asked if I had to do anything when power was restored. The electrician who installed it simulated a power cut to show me that everything restarted automatically. There will need to be some sort of adjustment to our system. There is at present a limit to how much we can export but the grid approval said it can be removed as our local system is robust enough to cope with the situation of us not using anything and exporting the maximum on a sunny day. Not a problem at present.  

 

It was explained to me by the surveyor (and his manager) that the export cap can be raised or even lifted with an agreement with UK Power/ end buyer chosen. I was almost guaranteed they would automatically accept twice the amount. This is not an issue with me, as I chose a smaller system which would always provide more than enough power for the maximum I would normally use, but is just below the g'teed minimum export amount.  

 

As I have said I chose my system on financial grounds, based on my usage and the return on expenditure/ savings interest rate from banks.

 

What I knew last year my savings in the bank were reducing due to inflation

The past 6 months have seen both my savings in using my own generated power and the amount I receive in exporting surplus rise. Initial figured showed a return of capital after 10 rears, what I now have to pay for power and what I get paid for exporting it are much higher than anticipated, plus I am hoping is what they expected I would produce was also on the conservative side. 

 

 

[Tony_S]

15 minutes ago, hayfield said:

The past 6 months have seen both my savings in using my own generated power and the amount I receive in exporting surplus rise. Initial figured showed a return of capital after 10 rears, what I now have to pay for power and what I get paid for exporting it are much higher than anticipated, plus I am hoping is what they expected I would produce was also on the conservative side. 

I agree. Ours has only been in since December and we can see a considerable saving already in electricity from the grid. It doesn’t have to be sunny all day either, though overcast days like today don’t generate much. We have just finished insulating the loft to modern standards too. I suspect the savings there will soon pay back the cost. We had to clear the very cluttered loft so the roof survey could happen and it seemed silly not to insulate it properly. At least we got “overseas” trips as a result of clearing the loft. Overseas was our little joke as our local recycling centre is on Canvey Island. 

[SamThomas]

Our system has the capability to power the house in the even of a power cut (provided the sun is out &/or charge in the PowerVault). However, this requires the installation of a changeover switch.

Without isolation from the grid "backfeeding" would be dangerous to anyone working on the grid but you would also be trying to power anyone else on your "leg" of the grid.

 

As mentioned already most inverters need grid power as a reference to syncronise.

 

We already have a changeover switch but that is for the 4.5kVa standby generator.

[hayfield]

7 hours ago, Tony_S said:

I agree. Ours has only been in since December and we can see a considerable saving already in electricity from the grid. It doesn’t have to be sunny all day either, though overcast days like today don’t generate much. We have just finished insulating the loft to modern standards too. I suspect the savings there will soon pay back the cost. We had to clear the very cluttered loft so the roof survey could happen and it seemed silly not to insulate it properly. At least we got “overseas” trips as a result of clearing the loft. Overseas was our little joke as our local recycling centre is on Canvey Island. 

 

Whilst today has been quite disappointing weather-wise the energy spikes are getting noticeably higher, in December it would have been a bit of a wash out, certainly after first thing its produced more than I thought it would.

 

I am looking forward to the next bill, simply to see if I have continued to be more frugal with out running around turning everything off. Then next month we will have the dreaded news of how much the new rates will go up by

 

As for overseas travel the Rail Discoveries brochure popped through the door this morning. Thinking of Tuscany in June with a stop over in Nice on the way back which we are looking at the possibility of extending a few days. (Its the fund which solar panels came from as our retirement holiday planning hit the dust due to Covid )

[hayfield]

Yesterday was the best power producing day of the year, admittedly there was not much competition. It was 70% of what I was getting on the best days in September and if the returns were annualised would be the equivalent of a 12% return

 

Waiting for both my next electricity bill which is due in a few days, simply to see if the recent past results are continuing, also looking to see what the new costs will be, but for different reasons

 

Certainly with energy costs rising I can see solar panels becoming more attractive. Will this be mirrored in what people will be looking when buying houses, if not already having panels having  a south facing roof with the ability to fit them ?

[Tony_S]

46 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Yesterday was the best power producing day of the year

Same here (24kWh). Instead of doing crosswords or sudoku my wife enjoys playing the energy game deciding when to run appliances like the tumble dryer, either daytime, evening from batteries or at night with the cheaper night rate Economy7.  

[hayfield]

My latest bill arrived yesterday, again cheaper in £'s (12%) than the same time last year . Still no news of how much the new tariffs will be. Our gas usage is still high but the temperatures is rising so use will diminish

 

Yesterday saw the first double figure kwh production of the year (I have a smaller system) and we made good use of the power we generated (every energy hungry machine was in use at one time or another. 

 

 

[hayfield]

A couple of things happened yesterday, firstly it was nice and sunny (more later) Secondly I had an email from Solar Together stating that a new round is just starting and would I like to explore the cost of getting batteries, I though its worth seeing if they have come down so I am waiting for a basic quotation

 

As I said yesterday was the best day for production, with my modest system producing 11.1 kwh

 

My total electric consumption for the whole day was 6.7 kwh, which is below last years March average of 9 kwh per day and last weeks daily average of 8.8 kwh per day ( a bit of a heavy week last week ?)

 

Yesterday had I not had solar panels I would have bought £1.34 worth of power, last year average was £1.80 per day at todays prices

I only had to import 92p worth of power, but I exported power to the value of 67p 

My net cost was 25p for yesterday, plus of course the standing charge must be added to all of these numbers, but solar panels cannot affect this charge

 

I accept not every day will be as sunny, the past 2 days have seen me paying £1.22 instead of £3.12. Last week instead of paying £10.02 for the power I used it cost me £5.44 7.38 net (edited as I added in a number twice)

 

All I can say to anyone living in Essex is its worth asking for a free initial quote for the panels, especially if you have a south-ish facing roof, it may not be as expensive as you think, especially as the price for electricity has nearly doubled what it was this time last year, and whilst exporting power we are not getting the FIT rates, at the moment I am getting 150% more than the estimate per KWH last summer

 

https://solartogether.co.uk/essex/landing?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=search&utm_content=brand&utm_term=rsa&gclid=CjwKCAiAvaGRBhBlEiwAiY-yMFSoRj6w84iOZ7YyqEY7XUQVHVgzlaVqr6sFL4TXfLQ4p9UeTrvKxxoC0BAQAvD_BwE 

Edited March 10, 2022 by hayfield

[Tony_S]

On 09/03/2022 at 13:26, hayfield said:

I had an email from Solar Together stating that a new round is just starting and would I like to explore the cost of getting batteries,

This is what the Solar Together batteries fitted by Greenscape look like. We have three. They are Pylon brand.  They are installed below the inverter in our garage. The batteries are in a 19” rack housing with space for one more.   The white stuff is pipe insulation so I don't walk in to the rack.

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tony_S

[hayfield]

Tony

 

Thanks, how are you fairing with your panels ? is the system up to expectations

 

What do you think about both Solar Together and Greenscape ?

[Ian Morgan]

I registered and paid a deposit for the Solar Together scheme for Hampshire almost exactly a year ago.

 

I had an email from Solar Together last week saying that the selected installers had been very slow in rolling out systems, so they gave me an option to switch to a different supplier. It is costing a little more, but for a slightly higher power system, but I have an appointment with the surveyor booked already.

 

 

[hayfield]

26 minutes ago, Ian Morgan said:

I registered and paid a deposit for the Solar Together scheme for Hampshire almost exactly a year ago.

 

I had an email from Solar Together last week saying that the selected installers had been very slow in rolling out systems, so they gave me an option to switch to a different supplier. It is costing a little more, but for a slightly higher power system, but I have an appointment with the surveyor booked already.

 

 

 

Ian

 

I have found that solar panels seem to be a very worthwhile investment, I also thought the cogs did run a bit slow and whilst I have no proof if I ran the business I would always do more profitable installations first. That's part of receiving a large discount and from memory it was about 40%

 

having said this, the quality of the installers was first class. The system includes an insurance backed guarantee. In the end I needed the guidance of a third party as to what to buy

 

If its a larger system then you would expect to pay slightly more, plus you have missed the worst production period, in my case the wait missed some of the better months

 

The main thing I have learnt is the value of energy, and the importance of finding a decent energy supplier. Good luck 

[Tony_S]

45 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Tony

 

Thanks, how are you fairing with your panels ? is the system up to expectations

 

What do you think about both Solar Together and Greenscape ?

The system is working well. Early afternoon when the south facing and west facing panels get sunlight we even at this time of year can get about 5kW. The short days and overcast skies limit the kIlowatt hours though. The batteries work fine but we think at this time of year it is best to use them once the sun has gone down, otherwise they will just discharge at about 1kwh to,the grid if we aren’t using them. The installation was excellent and predictions of generation  made by Greenscape seem fine. The Solar Together bidding process seemed to work and did remove any anxiety about disreputable installers. The paperwork for assorted certificates did seem to take ages but I saw the emails sent by UKPower to Greenscape and Greenscape did send everything to me as soon as they had it. I suspect Christmas and the New Year holidays didn’t help. The SEG application is proceeding but I suspect it will get sorted out eventually. 

The only other thing I did was fit a heat alarm in the garage as advised by Greenscape. They recommend this for battery installations. We couldn’t hear the garage alarm from inside the house when we tested it so I installed some new “linked “ alarms today. We can hear those!