Allegheny1600 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Hello Mr Tortuga, Please forgive the huge rash of “likes” only I’m really enjoying this build. I must be getting nostalgic for Derbyshire as I’ve been away for a good while now. I used to cycle the Tissington and High Peak trails regularly back in the 1980s and 90s but only recently actually started getting interested in the actual railways that they used to be. As far as I can tell from studying numerous photos, you should be able to add Horwich Crabs and Ivatt 2MTs of the 2-6-0 varieties to your fleet - should you wish. I guess more or less anything allocated to Buxton could pass along this line, I’m amazed that the ex-LNWR 0-8-0s worked here but they certainly did. Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 Welcome aboard @Allegheny1600 and thanks for the likes! Derbyshire is a lovely part of the world. I’ve done a few walks there and cycled part of the Tissington Trail, though I’ve yet to do the full route! Although I didn’t realise it at the time, we camped in the former quarry at Alsop Moor while on my BEL training and I first came across the C&HP in a book at a YHA I stayed in while on silver Duke of Edinburgh practice. As I understand it, the Super Ds were the heaviest locos that were permitted past Ashbourne, hence their extended use on the line. My current intention is to model the line prior to 31st October 1954 as this was when passenger services ended, allowing me to represent them - they add a bit more variety to the workings and the loco fleet! Having said that… future plans could include a separate fleet of locos and stock to represent the line in 1961/62 as photos show the infrastructure remained pretty much unchanged after 1954. I’d lose the regular passenger services and the Alsop Moor working, since the quarry ceased production in the ‘50s, but I believe the station might have been used for specials at this time, which would definitely permit the use of a Horwich Crab - there’s a photo of one such working in May (?) 1961 in one of my books - and I’d love to add one to my loco fleet. I think the Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0s arrived in 1964. They certainly replaced the Midland 3Fs on the Buxton-Parsley Hay-Friden working, but I’m not sure if they took over any workings beyond Hartington on the Parsley Hay to Ashbourne section. I’m fairly certain the Super Ds were also removed from service around this time, being replaced by 4Fs on the freight workings to Pinfold Sidings and to Burton (if this was still in operation then), which would cut the variety of loco classes down quite a bit. I am, of course, just going off photos in my books and those I’ve managed to find online, so I’d be very interested to see any additional photos confirming the use of Horwich Crabs, Ivatt 2MTs or any other locos on workings through Alsop in the early ‘50s or ‘60s! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 Even though that’s a massive post, I’ve still forgot something! One of my books has a photo of one of Buxton’s 8Fs with brake van in 1952 waiting outside the condensed milk factory in Ashbourne, prior to returning to Buxton after working “a special freight”. I’d love to model this (any excuse for an 8F!), but have no further information on what this working might’ve been - can anyone shed further light or provide some suggestions? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) Didn’t get much time on the layout over the weekend, but after filing and tweaking I did get the two frogs with their green wires (frogs are green) installed. If you look closely there’s an insulating fishplate between the rails joining the two frogs and the keys on the straight route at the heel of the point (left hand end) are prototypically all facing the same way since traffic on this track moves predominantly in one direction. I’ve since realised I’ve got the placement of the chairs on the left hand crossing slightly wrong as crossings are secured by specialised chairs, which need representing by cutting up the chairs supplied, but that’s nothing that can’t be fixed with a little careful knife work. The joint between the crossings should also probably be further to the right, but there’s no way to fix that now, so it’ll have to do. Besides, I don’t think it looks massively incorrect and certainly not noticeable at normal viewing distance. Last night I managed to grab enough time to solder the frog wire to the 1:8 common crossing. Perhaps not as neat as my second attempt, but not too bad. I’ve just got to trim it to length so it ties into the middle crossing, then I can get it installed - a job for (hopefully) later this week! I also had just enough time to sort a couple of the incorrectly installed chairs on the left hand crossing. Firstly, the chair on the straight route needed the key facing the other direction and secondly, the chair on the diverging route needed to be replaced with an ‘L’ type chair which basically has a smaller, squarer footprint on the timber. So out came the knife and after a few minutes, this was the result: I’m quite pleased with that! Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga Missing worms 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 You certainly should be pleased, that level of attention to detail in such a small scale demonstrates knowledge, patience and above all, a steady hand! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 Thanks Rob. “That level of attention to detail” is my curse that resulted in previous layouts being abandoned in the early stages! As for the knowledge, it’s usually at this point in a project where I randomly find out new information that contradicts what I’ve already done: so I’m fully expecting loads of photos of this end of the real Alsop to suddenly come to light and highlight all the mistakes I didn’t know I’d made! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) The tandem three way point now has all three of its common crossings in place on its timbers. I think I need to sort out a wiring diagram before going too much further. Edited January 16, 2022 by Tortuga Missing worms 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Finding out new information at the wrong time is in line with the First Rule of the Cosmos: Thou shalt not win. So you might as well just press on. I've had exactly the same experience with my own layout, maybe it's just part of the challenge of making something that you haven't done before. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 11 hours ago, MrWolf said: Finding out new information at the wrong time is in line with the First Rule of the Cosmos: Thou shalt not win. So you might as well just press on. You’re not wrong there Rob! After all that careful work carving up standard 4-bolt S-type chairs to represent L1-type chairs, I’ve found the newer 3-bolt chair spruces from C&L (included in a couple of more recently purchased point kits) have a couple of L1-type chairs on them! Oh well. I’m not going to cut out the modified ones now, but I will use the C&L ones on the other four points I build. If there’s enough L1-types left after that, I might consider replacing my modified ones at a later date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) Quick photo of the weekend’s work: Looks like I’ve got a couple of rails to cut to length before I go any further! Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga Reinstated photos 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) I hope people aren’t getting tired of photos of rails, chairs and timbers? If you aren’t, you’re in for a treat! I’ve soldered my first dropper wires! As the insulation isn’t visible, you’ll just have to believe me that the black wire is to the back - and just as well, since it’s not my neatest soldering! I’ve also had a go at where the track crosses the baseboard joint between the first scenic board and the corner board. Four brass screws screwed in to touch the bottom of the rail and filed to width. Just got to actually solder the rails up and slit them at the gap. I had just enough time to lay the stock rail from the tandem 3-way into the goods loop. The other stock rail is not fixed in position, just held to gauge by the XPO wagon. Fitting the chairs to that rail and securing them in place was interrupted by the arrival of T’Missus and offspring… Finally an overall shot of the corner board and first scenic board A single length of C&L flexi-track makes up the 610mm (2’) radius curve in the distance, the scale 60’ straight length beyond the tandem point and the two stock rails of the point itself. I’m not 100% happy with the smoothness of the curve - thinking about getting a tracksetta even though I’ll likely only use it this once. Due to me ordering point kits with 1.00mm flangeways on the common crossings and not particularly wanting to mess about with the back-to-back measurement of my locos, the gauge narrows to 16.2mm through the pointwork. As this is my first attempt at hand building track - I can’t really count laying a straight stock rail last year - it was extremely satisfying to push that XPO wagon through the curve of the tandem point with no tight spots! Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga Reinstated photos 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 Ten to fifteen quid for a 2’ radius tracksetta? Hmm, seems a bit excessive in order to lay two lengths of track in a 90 degree curve… Speaking of “tools you’ll only use infrequently”, I finally found my Xuron track cutters! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 37 minutes ago, Tortuga said: Ten to fifteen quid for a 2’ radius tracksetta? Hmm, seems a bit excessive in order to lay two lengths of track in a 90 degree curve… That is a lot of money for a nail, three feet of string and a pencil.... 37 minutes ago, Tortuga said: Speaking of “tools you’ll only use infrequently”, I finally found my Xuron track cutters! I bought one. Busted it. So having learnt from my mistake, I bought another. Busted that too. I can only get any results with a fine razor saw and patience. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, MrWolf said: That is a lot of money for a nail, three feet of string and a pencil.... Ha! I’ve already marked out the centre line of the curve that way. The track is down, but I haven’t managed to get the curve as smooth as I’d like; there seems to be a mild flat spot that I’d like to get rid of. Perhaps marking a curve as you suggest but to the inner edge of the sleepers as a guide might work… 8 hours ago, MrWolf said: …I can only get any results with a fine razor saw and patience. I used my razor saw to trim the excess off the common crossings, but I’m hoping the Xuron will allow me to easily trim ends in-situ without damage to other rails close by - followed by careful filing of course! Edited January 19, 2022 by Tortuga Clarity 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 Yesss! Using a pen on the end of a piece of string to mark the inner ends of the sleepers worked - one smooth curve! …and it’s all the better for being free! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Good to hear that worked. I've always found that if you can find the inner or outer edge of a curve when marking out anything, you at least have a datum. Working out pipe runs usually requires an imaginary center line which is a pain because you have to keep diameter in mind too. Roman engineering 1 - Gadgets 0. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share Posted January 21, 2022 Can’t do any further work on the two main lines through the station as I only have ‘branchline’ track and track bases in my stock of bits and I need track with the keys all facing the same direction. I’ve ordered some ‘mainline’ track bases from C&L rather than lengths of track since I do have lengths of rail. Not to worry. I’ve got the switch blades and point operating mechanisms for the tandem point to do next… …as well as the points of the ‘goods loop’ and, now the workshop has finally been cleared of Christmas feasting detritus, the baseboard structure and the alignment dowels for the next board… …hmm, I sense some woodworking might occur this weekend! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 Obviously woodworking or significant further progress on the layout failed to happen last weekend, thanks to T’Missus being busy and leaving me with unexpected extra Daddy duty. I did find time this weekend to sort out the alignment dowels between the first and second board, which, for some reason, I found easier than last time, and put together the second board, which, like the first, currently consists of the trackbed, a spine and two ends. Unlike the first board, the trackbed is wider as it includes the long goods siding (which snakes toward the front edge of the layout), and the Buxton end is level with instead of above the trackbed as the scenery transitions to below track level after this point. Other than that, progress has consisted of laying timbers for the goods loop points and plotting the ‘snake’ of the goods siding on the second board, neither of which are really worth photographing - as it’s just more point timbers and a wavy pencil line. I’m rapidly approaching an enforced pause: I need (and have on order) chamfered cork strip and the mainline sleeper track base to start laying the lines through the station and shortly after that I’ll need to look into building and installing signals and point rodding. Might have to bite the bullet and sort out those switch blades next! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) Ordered parts for the signals on the first board, these being the up starter and the two ground signals controlling exit from the goods siding in the up and down direction. Edited February 1, 2022 by Tortuga Word order Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) Got home to find the Carrs chamfered cork strip I ordered from Phoenix Paints on Sunday lunchtime had arrived. That’s less than two working days turn-around, so I’m well impressed! (Obligatory no connection to either Carrs or Phoenix Paints, just a satisfied customer) Edited February 1, 2022 by Tortuga Duplicate post amended into new post 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) A while back I mentioned needing to sort out a wiring diagram before going too much further. I’ve decided to wire the layout as DC since firstly, I figure it’ll be easier to convert from DC to DCC rather than the other way round and, secondly, I already possess this controller: I have no idea if this still works, but I figure if it doesn’t, then I can look into going DCC. My plan is to have a power feed from this unit to the toe of the point at the Buxton end of the loop, which will control the Buxton to Alsop up line section. A second power feed from the unit to the toe of the point at the Ashbourne end will control the Ashbourne to Alsop down line section. However, I’m a little stuck over how to feed power to the goods loop and siding. Shunting the siding from the Ashbourne end would be the same as controlling a train on the Ashbourne to Alsop down line, but how can I wire up the layout to shunt the siding from the down side of the loop while a train passes on the up side? Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga Reinstated photos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nick C Posted February 2, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 2, 2022 I think the traditional method to control a layout with a twin controller like that, is to have a double-throw centre-off switch for each section, so you can select either the left controller, the right controller, or neither. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) I know I said it wasn’t worth photographing, but I finished the final fitting of the alignment dowels this evening and couldn’t resist a photo of the two boards together, taken along the line, looking toward Ashbourne. Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga Reinstated photos 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortuga Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 12 hours ago, Nick C said: I think the traditional method to control a layout with a twin controller like that, is to have a double-throw centre-off switch for each section, so you can select either the left controller, the right controller, or neither. So, if I understand correctly, I need to wire the Buxton end / up side of the loop, the Ashbourne end / down side of the loop and the siding to the controller via three double-throw centre-off switches, effectively giving me three sections that can be powered from two controllers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 It's all looking rather precise and meticulous. I think that you will end up with a layout that meets all of your expectations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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