Alsop-en-le-Dale (third time lucky?): a return to the drawing board

[Tortuga]

2 hours ago, Graham T said:

You didn't hire Bodgeit and Scarper from Chuffnell R to build the boards did you?

If only! That way I’d have someone else to blame!

No, it’s the result of using the railway room as a kind of dumping ground - mainly because it’s the loft. Our house has a hipped roof and I stupidly started the layout where there was maximum headroom. Currently the boards have a thickness of 140mm base to track level and clearance under the roof beam over where the end of the fiddle yard will be is, shall we say, distinctly less than that.

 

Long story short, I need to shave the thickness of the boards down to 100mm base to track level. Easy enough, apart from the fact I’ve got track secured to the boards using the brass screw method, meaning I’m unable to remove the parts I need to in order to reduce their thickness!

 

Fun, fun, fun!

[Tortuga]

The first patient board about to go under the knife jigsaw;

 

In the end I didn’t bother with the piece of wood as a guide and went free hand. “Surgery” went well; here the patient board rests after the first cut.

 

After a struggle I managed to remove the ‘spine’ from board one. The second board was a bit more tricky as it’s ‘spine’ was attached along its length, but I managed eventually.

Surgery over and the boards rest in place on the new framework.

 

Next up for surgery is the board in the far corner, then the second board needs rejigging to accommodate the sharper curve of the improved plan.

[Tortuga]

In the end, I decided to start on firtling (thanks @Graham T for getting the word stuck in my head!) about with the second board rather than starting the faff of reducing the height of the corner board.  However, due to several unrelated things this week (site work, lack of printer ink, children, etc.), this was as far as I got:

 

Essentially I’ve tied the rejigged site plan into the existing one; marked the centre of the up and down lines; used those to mark out the cut line for the new end of the board and the new alignment of the siding and roughly marked out the curve of the far edge of the board.

 

Unfortunately, that’s going to be it for progress on Alsop for a while, as SWMBO has made it very clear that I need to complete the wardrobes I’ve been constructing (or more accurately, not constructing) in what will be our daughters’ room.

 

She’s quite right; I think they were started over a year ago and haven’t progressed much further than a floor and some framework in the intervening period.

I have got permission to go to the Stafford Model Railway Exhibition tomorrow though! First time I’ve been to a big exhibition so I’m quite looking forward to it!

[Graham T]

I think I got "firtling" from @Alister_G actually, and it stuck with me too!

[5BarVT]

34 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

I have got permission to go to the Stafford Model Railway Exhibition tomorrow though! First time I’ve been to a big exhibition so I’m quite looking forward to it!

It’s a good one this year. (It usually is!). Whatever your interest there will be something to grab you, and some that you didn’t expect too.

Paul.

[Tortuga]

In case anyone was wondering why I’m firtling the second board instead of scrapping it and starting with fresh ply (which would be a d*mn sight easier tbh), it’s because I’ve got a half built point and the start of the siding already on one end and I can’t face repeating the amount of faffing about I had to go through to get the curving lead from the goods loop right!

 

 I’m also quite pleased with the gradual dip in the ballast I’ve managed to achieve in the ‘vee’ between the siding and the connection to the down main - prototype photos seem to show it as flat, but there must have been a minuscule slope since the main lines rise on a 1 in 260 gradient while the siding remains level with the surface of the yard - I reckon I’d struggle to repeat this!

[Tortuga]

Well that was a great day out at Stafford Model Railway Exhibition! Please indulge me while I share my experience :D

 

The Journey 

I chose to travel by train and the outward journey went via Litchfield Trent Valley meaning I passed through Litchfield City, which appears to have had its station furniture painted in what I assume are former LNWR colours - pale sand and maroon brown (can anyone confirm?) - rather than the local orange and grey.

From Stafford Station, this was our transport;

It was (marginally) quieter than the last vintage bus I went on, but lurched with each gear change, had brakes that squealed, everything inside rattled and creaked and the doors flew open at the first bend - in short it was GREAT!

 

The Exhibition

There were loads of layouts and not too many people, so I got to see just about everything. All the layouts seemed to be DCC to some extent or other although I did notice a range of different point control. I also noticed where layouts had sound, the sound didn’t have as big as impact on me as usual - maybe something to do with the size of the hall? I also thought the balance of steam to diesel was in favour of diesel layouts, but other than that, I thought there was a good range of different scales and prototypes being exhibited.

 

Favourite Layouts

I found Hounslow Sidings quite quickly and enjoyed watching an 09 shuffling wagons in the snow so much, I went back and caught an ex-Southern loco (I forget what type) doing the same:

I don’t know what it was that made this stand out: maybe the snow; maybe the simplicity; maybe the way everything blended together I don’t know, but it was excellent and I need to find and read the build thread on here!

I found Longfield to be excellent (and the two gentlemen operating it, very helpful and accommodating), despite it being a bit of a work in progress. After asking a couple of questions about carriages and signals, I was treated to a 20-30 minute demonstration of a fully operational breakdown crane - very impressive! Longfield also stood out (to me) as being one of the few layouts where (most) train movements were controlled by signals.

Karolina Falls stood out due to its eclectic mix of “weird drive” steam locomotives - Climaxes, Heislers and Shays (for which I have a soft spot) - and it’s random eccentricities like the dinosaur under the rope bridge and the penguins driving the Heisler:

[Tortuga]

(continuing on from last post)

Traders Stands

In short there were a lot. I was sorely tempted by a laser cut wooden worktop organiser, a laser cut wooden modelling cradle and a rolling road, but decided they weren’t immediate necessities. Likewise I must have browsed every stall selling wagon kits despite having already decided my backlog is too large!

I did pick up some packs of fine plastic ‘H’, ‘I’, ‘L’ and ‘T’ section to help detailing the backlog of kits (one more excuse not to do them now gone!) as well as some pointwork parts from C&L, meaning I’ve now got bits for all the points on Alsop.

I also bought Volume 4 of David Larkin’s excellent series on The Acquired Wagons of British Railways, which I hadn’t realised was out yet. Now I can identify all those vans in my prototype photos and… uh… buy the right kits… 
 

I might’ve just added to my to do list…

[Tortuga]

As mentioned previously, work on the actual layout has been temporarily suspended while my free time is devoted to wardrobe construction. However, due to what I’m going to call “unusual business strategies” at work, I currently find myself with time to do a little work on improving some wagons I constructed from Parkside kits some time ago (while I was still in school!)

 

They’ve all been stripped of their previously applied paint, had their brake gear removed, had buffers removed and, in some cases, had doors removed/swapped between kits and I’m now in the process of building them back up again.

 

First up we have two BR Diag. 1/108 16T minerals. Both have had the brake levers, vees and Morton cam replaced with etched brass parts by 51L and the Parkside brake shoe moulding has been modified to incorporate etched brass brake safety straps.

The left-hand wagon was originally Parkside’s kit for a vacuum fitted Diag. 1/108 (hence the brown body), but I’d already swapped out the 10’ w/b fitted underframe for an 9’ w/b unfitted one when I originally built it. It has also been modified with (IIRC) MJT white metal buffers with turned heads.

The right-hand wagon has been modified with Lanarkshire Models white metal buffers and a pressed steel version of the end door from the Parkside Diag. 1/109 Mineral kit. It’s currently waiting on me finding its missing buffer beam in my box of spare bits.

Both of these will eventually be painted and numbered to represent a couple of prototype wagons photographed at Skipton in the late 1960s that I found photos of online during my aborted attempt to model Rylstone.

 

Next up is the Parkside kit for a Diag. 1/100 slope-sided 16T mineral wagon, which I think can be numbered to represent either private owner 14/16T or MWT 16T wagons, since they were all the same design.

Once again, I’ve modified/replaced most of the brake gear using the 51L brass etch, which allows either Morton cam gear or independent brakes (as here) to be modelled, and I’ve again fitted Lanarkshire Models buffers. I’d best put the usual disclaimer about no connection to any of the manufacturers I’ve mentioned, just a satisfied customer in at this point.

The gaping hole in the side, resulting from teenage ham-fisted impatience, will be filled as soon as I find my filler…

 

Finally, we have the Parkside kit for the BR Diag. 1/109 16T mineral, from which I pinched the pressed steel door as mentioned earlier.

You might just be able to make out that I’ve scribed bottom doors (though maybe not as neatly as I’d like) on the floor, which together with the brass etch parts to make the independent brake gear, have resulted in a BR Diag. 1/105 16T mineral. I’ve yet to fit the replacement buffers on this one.

 

I’ve still got bits to add - no doubt you’ll all have spotted the lack of couplings and door springs and the more eagle-eyed will have noticed the missing lever guard brackets! - but the bulk of the work is done. Once they’re painted (a long way off yet), I’ll be better able to judge whether some of the improvements were worth it!

Edited November 14, 2022 by Tortuga
Wheelbase too short

[JustinDean]

3 hours ago, Tortuga said:

As mentioned previously, work on the actual layout has been temporarily suspended while my free time is devoted to wardrobe construction. However, due to what I’m going to call “unusual business strategies” at work, I currently find myself with time to do a little work on improving some wagons I constructed from Parkside kits some time ago (while I was still in school!)

 

They’ve all been stripped of their previously applied paint, had their brake gear removed, had buffers removed and, in some cases, had doors removed/swapped between kits and I’m now in the process of building them back up again.

 

First up we have two BR Diag. 1/108 16T minerals. Both have had the brake levers, vees and Morton cam replaced with etched brass parts by 51L and the Parkside brake shoe moulding has been modified to incorporate etched brass brake safety straps.

The left-hand wagon was originally Parkside’s kit for a vacuum fitted Diag. 1/108 (hence the brown body), but I’d already swapped out the 10’ w/b fitted underframe for an 8’ w/b unfitted one when I originally built it. It has also been modified with (IIRC) MJT white metal buffers with turned heads.

The right-hand wagon has been modified with Lanarkshire Models white metal buffers and a pressed steel version of the end door from the Parkside Diag. 1/109 Mineral kit. It’s currently waiting on me finding its missing buffer beam in my box of spare bits.

Both of these will eventually be painted and numbered to represent a couple of prototype wagons photographed at Skipton in the late 1960s that I found photos of online during my aborted attempt to model Rylstone.

 

Next up is the Parkside kit for a Diag. 1/100 slope-sided 16T mineral wagon, which I think can be numbered to represent either private owner 14/16T or MWT 16T wagons, since they were all the same design.

Once again, I’ve modified/replaced most of the brake gear using the 51L brass etch, which allows either Morton cam gear or independent brakes (as here) to be modelled, and I’ve again fitted Lanarkshire Models buffers. I’d best put the usual disclaimer about no connection to any of the manufacturers I’ve mentioned, just a satisfied customer in at this point.

The gaping hole in the side, resulting from teenage ham-fisted impatience, will be filled as soon as I find my filler…

 

Finally, we have the Parkside kit for the BR Diag. 1/109 16T mineral, from which I pinched the pressed steel door as mentioned earlier.

You might just be able to make out that I’ve scribed bottom doors (though maybe not as neatly as I’d like) on the floor, which together with the brass etch parts to make the independent brake gear, have resulted in a BR Diag. 1/105 16T mineral. I’ve yet to fit the replacement buffers on this one.

 

I’ve still got bits to add - no doubt you’ll all have spotted the lack of couplings and door springs and the more eagle-eyed will have noticed the missing lever guard brackets! - but the bulk of the work is done. Once they’re painted (a long way off yet), I’ll be better able to judge whether some of the improvements were worth it!

That Dia 1/100 slope sided wagon is a bit of a pig to build and was part of my wagon binge last winter. The sides just don’t go together cleanly so I have a similar filling job to do. I’ve got two more to build for when I’m feeling particularly masochistic.  

The etched brake levers and hangers really improve the appearance and I’m regretting not doing similar now. 
You’re going to need a lot of wagons for Alsop that’s for sure!

 

Jay

[Tortuga]

The prototype photo trawl has turned up evidence of at least FIVE slope sided 16T minerals on the route - four more to go!*
From the look of it, the bulk of my kit building is going to be 1923 RCH 7- and 5-plank mineral wagons - and I’m fairly certain these wouldn’t all be former colliery PO wagons.

(*at some point anyway!)

[Tortuga]

1 hour ago, JustinDean said:

The etched brake levers and hangers really improve the appearance and I’m regretting not doing similar now. 

The improvements to the brake gear came about during the abortive attempt to model Rylstone. Even though I was going for a late sixties time period, the majority of 16T minerals in the prototype photos were pre-Diag. 1/108 types, all of which had independent brakes and bottom doors. I decided that scribing the floors and using etched brake gear on the Parkside kits would be the best way to represent them.

 

Quite pleased with how the Diag. 1/105 is turning out. Next up, I’ve got a Cambrian LMS/Diag. 1/102 kit that I intend to combine with a modified Parkside 9’ W/B underframe kit and the etched brake gear. Since that’s in a more disassembled state than the other wagons I’ve been working on, it’ll be interesting to see how quickly it can be built up.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Tortuga
Wheelbase too short

[cctransuk]

8 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

... Parkside 8’ W/B underframe kit ...

 

I take it that 8', here and above, should read 9'?

 

CJI.

[Tortuga]

17 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I take it that 8', here and above, should read 9'?

 

CJI.

Yes. Above posts edited to the correct wheelbase. Don’t know why I got 8’ in my head.

[Tortuga]

Things didn’t go quite as according to plan after Monday. After adding the white metal buffers to the Diag. 1/105, this is as far as I got with the Diag. 1/102:

Due to the extra thickness of the Cambrian sides and ends compared to Parkside kits, I decided to use the Cambrian floor and after much filing to remove the remnants of the Cambrian chassis (I didn’t have any emery paper), I scribed in representations of the bottom doors and quickly assembled the bodywork.

At this point, while checking the photo of my proposed prototype for buffer beam and axlebox details, I noticed that, although the prototype has welded side doors, the end door is of the pressed steel variety.

As are the end doors on all the other Diag. 1/102 wagons I have photos of in my reference material.

Apart from one.

Which has pressed steel side doors rather than welded ones, so…

Bu663r.

 

Therefore work has stopped on the Diag. 1/102 for the moment and I next turned my attention to a Parkside PC70 RCH Coal Wagon with fixed ends which I started just after leaving uni.

 

In my misguided youth, I’d attempted “weathering” this wagon by gouging the planks with a craft knife - and, yes, the result is unrealistic cr@p. For some reason I’d also apparently decided to inflict bottom doors, which are (I’m sure we can all agree) extremely poorly rendered.

My intention is to bury the errors of the past with plenty of filler and rescribe the planking across the floor before modifying this kit to represent an LMS D2038 7-plank wagon, which looks to be pretty close to the original kit apart from the wooden stanchions. Wooden LMS wagons had t-section steel stanchions and I’m using this ruin as a guinea pig to see if it’s possible to remove Parkside’s moulded wooden ones and replace them with Evergreen t-section - you can see I’ve removed the kit’s mouldings, but forgot to take the t-section into work, so couldn’t take this conversion further.

Incidentally, I’m not 100% convinced the 2.4mm t-section will work out - it needs rivets modelling and I’m not sure the best way to go about it. Suggestions welcome!

 

I had readied the Parkside underframe parts in preparation for the Diag. 1/102, so I used those as the underframe for this LNER Diagram 188 mineral:

This is an example of the Cambrian kit, but it’s one I picked up at a local exhibition and it must be the earliest Cambrian kit I’ve built - it came with plastic cookie-cutter wheels! Oh, and two flat lumps of black plastic that on closer inspection turned out to be predominantly flash with localised hints of possible underframe detail. I’m keeping these to remind me when I’m struggling with a kit, that it could be so much worse!

The body mouldings are OK, but lack any interior detail and annoyingly have thick, raised mouldings, presumably to help position the ends/sides with. Given these issues, I’ll be running this wagon with a tarpaulin, since one of the prototype photos of Alsop (albeit in 1962) shows a Super D with the southbound trip made up of three 16T steel minerals with tarpaulins, a Diag. 1/208 van, Conflat A and BR Standard Guard Van. I’m pretty sure the 16T nearest the engine is a Diagram 188, as it looks to have independent brakes (judging by the angle of the brake lever) and but no bottom door markings.

 

Work has finally started to get its act together, so this looks to be the end of Alsop’s Wagon Building Interlude for now. Until next time friends!

[Tortuga]

Thanks to some football event that’s apparently happening somewhere at the moment, I got some time to work on wagons.

 

No photos, as all I managed was to make a minor repair to the replacement brake shoe moulding for the LNER Diagram 188 (which then had to set) and firtle some of the parts for the (now completely) disassembled Parkside Shock Open. Although this is for a Diag. 1/050 wagon (construction of which started in 1955 - just too late for my layout), I can’t see any significant difference between any of the different Shock Open diagrams - apart from differences in brake gear and provision of tarpaulin bars, which apparently varied between (and within) wagon lots of the same diagram in any case.

Bearing that in mind, I found a photo on t’internet of a Diag. 1/040 wagon from Lot 2316 that matches the Parkside kit pretty well - vacuum fitted 4-shoe Morton brakes, a tarpaulin bar and split axleboxes - so I’ll be using that as my prototype.

 

Watch this space!

[Tortuga]

In further wagon news, I’ve also decided to leave the Diag. 1/102 wagon with its welded end door and model it as B28431 (pictured on both the front cover of ‘Wagons of the Early British Railways Era’ and P29 of Volume 2 of ‘The Acquired Wagons of British Railways’) from a batch delivered to the MoT between 1947 and 1948.

The photo shows it in its as delivered state (LMS Bauxite with MoT prefix) with a welded end door and pressed side doors, but I can say the model’s welded side doors are recent replacements, as it seems to me that side doors were more frequently replaced than end doors.

 

I’m not sure whether to give the model split spoke wheels as in the photo or 3-hole discs. Equally, I’m not sure to paint the wagon grey with minimal weathering or weathered LMS bauxite with clean grey side doors - the idea of an unusual combination appeals, but I’m not sure if the works fitting replacement doors would also carry out a full repaint at the same time.

[Tortuga]

In other (slightly railway related) news, while dismantling the console benches in the effective stress lab at work, I came across a 56lb mass, cast with the name ‘Pooley’.

 

I already have an ‘Avery’ mass at home.

The ‘Pooley’ mass is currently hiding out in my locker, pending removal to a safe location…

[Tortuga]

Tonight’s seen a small amount of progress on the 1/040 Shock Wagon:

 

Admittedly most of that work has been removing mould lines that my teenage eyes apparently saw as part of the real thing, but progress is progress. The notches in the backs of the solebars are for the replacement brass vee hangers and take quite a while to file out!

 

Here’s the photo of the real wagon that I’m representing:

(photo from https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/181-br-period-rolling-stock)

 

Toying with whether I should replace the axleguard tie-bars with brass ones and if I should increase the depth of the exposed chassis members using plastic rod: opinions welcome please!

I also organised my next ‘set’ of victims wagons for detailing work:

 

Top to bottom we have the Diag. 1/040 Shock Open, the Cambrian LNER Diagram 188 Mineral (still awaiting firtling of it’s brake block), a Ratio LMS 3-plank Medfit (with replacement chassis using the unused solebar and brake mouldings from a Parkside ‘Vanwide’ kit), a Parkside Diag. 1/041 Steel High (which will most likely be modified/numbered as an LNER Diagram 194 - they’re pretty much identical), a Parkside RCH 7-plank Mineral with fixed ends (modified with steel stanchions to represent an LMS wagon) and, finally, the Cambrian Diag. 1/102 Mineral (awaiting a replacement chassis from Parkside).

 

Plenty to keep me busy!

[Tortuga]

Successfully managed to convert the RCH axle guards on the Shock Open to BR ones using Geoff Kent’s method of 20 thou plasticard.

 

Chuffed with myself!

[Tortuga]

Oops…

[Tortuga]

I’ve already posted a seasonal message on my ‘Whaley Shunt’ thread

(https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/176179-whaley-shunt-shallcross-yard/), but for those of you that don’t follow it, best wishes for a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

[MrWolf]

Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you too Mr T.

[Tortuga]

Sadly neither Santa nor his helpers delivered any railway-related gifts to Tortuga Towers this Christmas, so I’ve been forced to undertake some internet purchasing: hopefully three non-corridor carriages are winding their merry way through the postal system as we speak!

 

I’m also pleased to report that the two beers brewed with the festive season in mind are very pleasant. I am happy to report that ‘Miss E’s Jack’O Lantern Pumpkin Ale’ has benefited from extended conditioning, while this year’s batch of ‘Orange Daemon Spiced Winter Ale’ is none the worse for its minimal conditioning period.

 

In completely unrelated news, no progress has been made on either of my layouts, possibly due to the intensive sampling of the above beers.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Tortuga
Too much pleased

[Tortuga]

Happy New Year to all on RM Web and especially to those following this thread!

 

As suspected, I didn’t get much chance for modelling over the festive break, although I did manage to get a little work done on t’other layout (it’s easier to sneak into the workshop than the loft).

 

Today I managed a few minutes of work on Alsop: back at the end of September I left the second board marked up ready for cutting to fit the rejigged plan and today I cut the board.

 

Next step is to mark out the landscape features to determine the shape of the end of the second board.