Alsop-en-le-Dale (third time lucky?): a return to the drawing board

[Tortuga]

8 hours ago, MrWolf said:

It's all looking rather precise and meticulous. I think that you will end up with a layout that meets all of your expectations.

Those are the terms my boss uses when I take longer to do something than he expects and when he wants me to do a task that is fiddly!

 

If I’m being honest, I’ve been avoiding working on the switch blades, which is really the next thing I need to get done!

[MrWolf]

There's always the temptation to plough ahead with a project and regard snags as something that we can sort out later. 

Then find out that we can't. 

I think we have all done that at some point.

[Nick C]

10 hours ago, Tortuga said:

So, if I understand correctly, I need to wire the Buxton end / up side of the loop, the Ashbourne end / down side of the loop and the siding to the controller via three double-throw centre-off switches, effectively giving me three sections that can be powered from two controllers?

I think you'd need five to allow for crossing trains - Buxton; Ashbourne; Up loop; Down loop; Siding. Each loop road needs to be able to be connected to the same controller as either the Buxton end, Ashbourne end, or both, depending if it's an arriving move, departing move, or straight through.

[Tortuga]

True enough Rob. Despite wanting to press ahead with laying the cork on the second board, I’m going to hang fire until I’ve worked out how the ballast was arranged.

From photos it seems like the ground cover of the yard was flush with the tops of the sleepers on one side of the siding, but there appears to be a shoulder to the siding ballast on the other side. Likewise the ballast seems to be level in the “vee” between the mainline and the siding, but gradually dropping away as it merges into the yard surface. The ballast shoulder also seems to be further from the track and less pronounced around the ends of the platform and the barrow crossing.

 

Its obviously going to involve some work to incorporate these subtle changes in level and make it look right; it’s not as simple as laying cork strip either side of the track centreline so I don’t want to rush in and get it wrong!

 

Anyone know the typical width of barrow crossings? From the photos it looks to be made of old sleepers, though possibly not full length ones…

[MrWolf]

From what I've seen of old style barrow crossings, about four feet. That gives a bit of wobble room for wayward cast iron trolley wheels.

[Tortuga]

2 hours ago, Nick C said:

I think you'd need five to allow for crossing trains - Buxton; Ashbourne; Up loop; Down loop; Siding. Each loop road needs to be able to be connected to the same controller as either the Buxton end, Ashbourne end, or both, depending if it's an arriving move, departing move, or straight through.

Thanks! That’s really helpful. I understand the idea behind sections (is it also referred to as cab control?), but I find it difficult to apply to my layout.

I’ll draw up and post a diagram soon to double check I understand.

 

Just one question; can I use a common return with my controller? The section on cab control in my ancient Micheal Andress book mentions using separate controllers if using common return?

[Tortuga]

7 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

From what I've seen of old style barrow crossings, about four feet. That gives a bit of wobble room for wayward cast iron trolley wheels.

That’s good. I think I allowed for 20mm when I planned out the platforms. I’ve got some point timber off-cuts that I can use in that case - a bit of filing and distressing and they’ll do nicely!

[MrWolf]

I have a few bits of a barrow crossing kit amongst the junk, looks like they went for 7'6" so your 20mm 5'0" should be fine.

 

[Nick C]

28 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Thanks! That’s really helpful. I understand the idea behind sections (is it also referred to as cab control?), but I find it difficult to apply to my layout.

I’ll draw up and post a diagram soon to double check I understand.

 

Just one question; can I use a common return with my controller? The section on cab control in my ancient Micheal Andress book mentions using separate controllers if using common return?

Yep, that's cab control. I believe you should be able to use a common return, see the diagram in the first post of this thread:

 

I've not tried it myself, having only ever had one controller at a time, so for my layouts it's always just been plain on-off switches!

 

[Tortuga]

Two switch blades installed, but not wired up and neither are part of the same pair!

I can now run a wagon through the straight road without any bumps, tight spots or derailments, which is extremely satisfying!

 

I had to carry out some minor surgery to the nearest common crossing to allow sufficient clearance for wheels and at the same time I took the opportunity to replace my converted L1 type chairs with the C&L mouldings I found I’d ordered at some point previously - now only one of my conversions remains.

 

I also started laying the up and down sides of the main loop as the mainline track bases I’d ordered from C&L arrived on Friday. I have to admit to being a touch disappointed with the detail of the chair keys; they don’t stand out as much as the ones on the point chairs and it isn’t obvious that they all face the same direction - to the extent that I had to double check more than once that I hadn’t ordered branchline ones by mistake!  Can’t fault the sleeper spacing however, and the chair detail is an definite improvement over Peco track.

In the interest of speeding up construction and as the alternative is hand building all the track, I’ll stick with using the trackbase.

 

I suppose the lack of detail isn’t going to be massively obvious at normal viewing distances, especially since the majority of the up and down lines are hidden by the platform; it’s just annoying that I’ve paid and waited for something that is supposed to represent mainline track, yet ended up with something that is barely indistinguishable from the branchline track I already had.

 

I think I’ll probably lay the siding using individual sleepers and chairs, since it will be more obvious, running along the front edge of the layout.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga
Reinstated photos

[MrWolf]

There's no option that covers "good news on the progress and not so good on the sleeper bases". 

 

So I wrote it here. That 3 way point is looking really good though. Ballast, paint and weathering will take care of a lot and you at least know that you've tried all of the options.

[Tortuga]

True enough.

 

I admit I’m quite pleased with how the 3-way is turning out - I’m sure it wouldn’t survive close scrutiny by a rivet-counting track buff - and I suspect the issues I’ve had with fitting chairs next to each other are more to do with the narrower-than-prototype track gauge than anything else.

 

I’d be interested to see how the EM (or even P4) track template compares to my Templot one.  As mentioned much earlier in the layout build, the sleeper spacing on the 00 template is far too close together.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Tortuga
What is a river-counting track buff?

[Tortuga]

In other news, my MSE signal parts arrived from Wizard Models in the early post on Friday. From a quick inspection, the etchings look and the castings look neat and clear of flash. I’m particularly happy with the post caps - they looked like squashed round blobs in the photo on the website, but in reality they’re perfect low pyramids.

 

Once again, impressed with the rapid delivery and again, no connection with either MSE or Wizard Models, merely a satisfied customer.

 

However, signals are on ice until I’ve finished track laying on the first board - at least two more switch blades to do, then I’d better install the point operating mechanism for the tandem point!

Edited February 7, 2022 by Tortuga
Grammar

[Tortuga]

Last night two hours work resulted in three pieces of plastic being glued together, a length of copper clad strip, two lengths of wire and one small screw being installed on the layout.

 

To clarify;

One of the C&L point operating mechanisms has been installed! I’m quite impressed with these: yes, they’re a bit fiddly to put together, especially as superglue was needed to glue them, but the pre-drilled holes in the copper-clad strip are a godsend to getting the spacing of the switch blades - would definitely recommend.

A view from above the baseboard:

The furthest wire has been bent at 90 degrees and is ready for soldering to the switch blade, while the nearest (still) awaits its switch blade to be installed.

 

My intention is to scratch build a more accurate representation of the actual tie-bar (and stretcher bar), since even the C&L instructions suggest that the tie-bar/stretcher bars included in the kit are not best suited to operating the point.

I’m thinking a strip of plastic card on its edge passing under the rails held to the switch blades by scraps of brass strip should work.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga
Reinstated photos

[Tortuga]

I can’t remember if I’ve mentioned it earlier in the thread (so apologies if I have), but I’m intending to operate the points and signals from a miniature lever frame using the wire-in-tube method.

 

Ideally I’d like to build up the lever frame using MSE kits and have the signals and points mechanically interlocked - I’ve been fascinated by this aspect of the railways since I came across an article on the subject in an old Railway Modeller.

[Tortuga]

5 hours ago, Tortuga said:

My intention is to scratch build a more accurate representation of the actual tie-bar…

… a strip of plastic card on its edge passing under the rails held to the switch blades by scraps of brass strip…

Hmm. It seems AMBIS Engineering produce an etch for what I’d intended to use “scraps of brass strip” for.

 

I sense an email enquiry coming on…

[Tortuga]

Made a second visit to my local model railway club last night, this time with five of my locos purchased from a well known internet auction site.

 

Happy to report that four of them ran well - the Bachmann G2a ran particularly well; I was very happy with its slow speed running. The Hornby Stanier 2-6-4T and the Bachmann Ivatt 2-6-0 4F “Flying Pig” (purchased for Rylstone) ran OK, as did the Hornby Fowler 2-6-4T after some serious wheel cleaning. I’m going to see if I can get the wheels a bit cleaner, since all three weren’t so good as the G2a at dead slow speeds. The “Flying Pig” also had a distinct “thumping” sound, which I have no idea of the cause - any suggestions?

 

The Hornby Fowler 4F didn’t seem to be getting any power to it’s motor at all, so more investigation is needed there. I don’t think it’s dirty wheels and the pick-ups appear to be in contact. I’m not sure whether it might’ve been fitted for DCC by its previous owner - but would this mean it wouldn’t run on DC?

 

Either way, I had great fun just watching those locos that would run, circle the club layout. Certainly a boost to the modelling mojo!

[Tortuga]

Today was my <insert significant age here> birthday and amongst my presents were these two items of bedtime reading;

The Locomotive Profiles book will be useful when I set about detailing the Hornby Fowler 2-6-4T and I now have a reference book for when I make a start on scenery.

 

Interestingly, Mr. Norman also selected Alsop-en-le -Dale as a prototype ideal for scenic modelling!

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga
Reinstated photos

[tractionman]

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

Today was my <insert significant age here> birthday and amongst my presents were these two items of bedtime reading;

The Locomotive Profiles book will be useful when I set about detailing the Hornby Fowler 2-6-4T and I now have a reference book for when I make a start on scenery.

 

Interestingly, Mr. Norman also selected Alsop-en-le -Dale as a prototype ideal for scenic modelling!

 

Happy birthday, great presents you've got there and a very lovely line you're modelling, one of my favourites in a beautiful part of the world.

 

all the best,

 

Keith

[MrWolf]

Happy birthday. I have a copy of the Barry Norman book, an interesting and informative read.

 

I won't spoil the ending by telling you about it here...

[Alister_G]

13 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Today was my <insert significant age here> birthday

 

Did it end with a 0? They are always the worst...

 

Happy birthday mate, and great progress.

 

Al.

[Tortuga]

Many thanks for the Birthday Wishes!

 

Until today I’ve only managed to snatch the odd hour or so in the loft, so not much progress.

 

Today I managed to get most of the day up there and got one of the “milestone jobs” completed - namely the screws that secure the rail ends at the join between Board 1 (the Ashbourne end of the loop) and Board 2 (the signal box).

Four tracks cross this board join - (back to front) up line, down line, crossover between the down loop and goods loop and the goods siding - meaning sixteen screws in total.

 

First attempt at soldering rail to the filed down screws wasn’t too bad (the other side of the far rail looked far worse and needed some additional tidying by removing excess solder).

 

Second attempt: much worse, mainly because I decided to solder from the visible side. Oh, and the left-hand filed screw head on the furthest rail became detached due to over-enthusiastic filing and needed additional soldering to fix it.

 

Still, after some tidying up of the excess solder and adding the removed sleepers back in, all that mess (and hard work) is almost (?) invisible. What remains should disappear once I get round to ballasting and weathering - though that’s a long way off at the moment!

 

Final shot showing progress up to date - although the eagle-eyed amongst you will spot the missing sleepers have yet to be reinstated! Although the sleepers of the goods loop are in place, the rails aren’t - that’s the next job on the list.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga
Massive gap at the bottom

[Tortuga]

…and no, I still haven’t fitted the other switch blades to the tandem point or soldered up the tie bar/operating mechanism; I’ve decided to leave the tie bar soldering until I’m a bit more confident with the soldering iron. Today’s soldering has given me a more practice at; a) getting solder to flow into a gap; b) soldering on the “visible” side; and c) soldering close to plastic components without melting them - I had to re-solder the droppers onto the up line with the track already positioned.
 

Despite the above photos to the contrary, I am getting better at this particular ‘dark art’!

[Tortuga]

On 19/02/2022 at 21:38, tractionman said:

 

Happy birthday, great presents you've got there and a very lovely line you're modelling, one of my favourites in a beautiful part of the world.

 

all the best,

 

Keith

Thanks Keith and welcome aboard!

 

It certainly is a lovely line and a shame it closed, although the Tissington Trail that replaced it is a great route for cycling and walking.

[Tortuga]

So remember back at the start of February when I said I was going to take my time over the cork in the vee between the siding and the exit from the goods loop? Then carefully plotted the curve of the siding and later installed the rail securing screws at the baseboard join?

 

Well, looking at the photos of this area shows that the siding begins its curve away from the main line immediately after the crossing vee of the turnout, meaning I’ve got the siding running closer to the platform than it should.

 

bu99er.

 

Does moving it require surgery to the land form and surface of Board 2? Yes. Can I live with it as it is? Of course not.

 

Guess what I’ll be doing after work tonight…