Alsop-en-le-Dale (third time lucky?): a return to the drawing board

[MrWolf]

I'm feeling the pain on that one. The mileage siding on my layout was shuffled around half a dozen times until I added an extra 150mm to the edge of one board to get it to look right.

[Tortuga]

The curve of the siding is fine, it just needs moving closer to the vee of the point.

It’s my own fault; I’d left the siding off the Templot plan (as I wanted to get the sinuous curve of the siding right), but had to extend the point it leads off to get the sleeper spacing of the crossover right. Then I forgot to double check how the siding actually led off the point.

 

Its not going to be too hard to correct, just awkward, as I’ll need to cut back the slope of the cutting (which forms part of the baseboard ends) to accommodate the new alignment and that’ll have to be done in-situ as I haven’t yet cut the tracks that cross the baseboard join. There should be enough board surface to accommodate the trackbed (touch wood), although I’ll need to add some wood for the cess.

[Tortuga]

In other news, looking at the photos did help out with the width of the barrow/accommodation crossing at the Ashbourne end of the platforms.

 

From the photos, it appears the boards of the crossing cover nearly three rail chairs - you can just see the tops of the chairs above the boards. Measuring the distance between three adjacent chairs on the widest spaced sleepers on a piece of C&L trackbase gives a length of 20mm, so my guesstimate looks spot on!

[MrWolf]

It would certainly make sense for a barrow crossing to be five feet wide, the track width of your average four wheeled barrow being close to three feet.

[Tortuga]

I’m leaning toward this crossing being more for the convenience of railway staff to be honest. It makes sense in that passenger access to the platforms and the station buildings are at the opposite end and the crossing appears more rough and ready - I wouldn’t want to manoeuvre a loaded barrow over those bumps!

(Photo from t’internet - Manchester Loco Society, J W Sutherland collection - if I shouldn’t have posted it, let me know and I’ll remove it)

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga
Photo now added

[MrWolf]

I suspect that they were all built with whatever was to hand unless it was for a specific purpose such as large barrows. There's no reason why a simple staff crossing wouldn't be made of longer timbers if that's what was available.

[Tortuga]

Re-plotting the alignment of the siding took longer than I’d hoped, so I didn’t get as far as I’d intended. Here’s what it looked like previously;

And this is what it looks like now;

Three sleepers have been removed from the point on the right and the curve now starts from that position instead of just after the baseboard join.

 

Next job is to get the ‘missing’ cork strip stuck in place. Good news is that it doesn’t look as if the surgery to the cutting slope and the cess is going to be that extensive!

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga
Reinstated photos

[Tortuga]

Last night I got the new cork strip glued down and tested the alignment of the rail leading from the vee. Annoyingly it doesn’t seem like the curve I’ve plotted out is as sharp in model form as it appears in the photos. Of course the angle the two photos were taken from might be making the curve appear sharper than it actually was or the points forming the crossover might be of a sharper angle than the B6 I’m using.

Either way I’ve decided I’m going to make another attempt, but if that gives a similar result, I’ll stick with it and move on.

 

I also trimmed back the cutting slope, which proved as awkward as I’d thought and, should it turn out that I need to trim it further, I’ll probably use a coping saw or power sander as the saw I did use left the slope decidedly rougher than intended. I think the slope might start to flatten out at this point more than I’d originally thought - more careful checking of photos required!

 

Finally I tried to get the ground level between the siding and the trailing crossover off the down line right. The photos show the ballast seems to start out level in the vee between the tracks, but while the track of the crossover develops a distinct shoulder as it comes toward the platform, the siding doesn’t. My attempt to sand the cork down to form the shoulder was only partly successful; the end result isn’t as well defined as in the photos, although smoothing off the shoulder of the cork on the siding produced the appearance of an almost level surface. I’m not happy with the overall result though, so it’s coming out and I’ll re-lay a defined shoulder along the crossover and infill the gap between it and the siding with two different thicknesses of cork, before sanding back to achieve the gradual change in ground level.

 

No photos because I wasn’t happy with the end result - feels like a couple of steps backward rather than progress.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Tortuga
Justification

[Tortuga]

Second re-plot of the siding gave pretty much the same alignment, so today I’ve concentrated on sorting the cork in the vee before turning my attention to how to secure the siding rails across the baseboard join.

 

It turned out I couldn’t use my preferred method of using filed-down screws to secure the “re-aligned” rails since the rails run between 1 to 3mm away from the previously drilled holes of the former securing screws. I did try to fill the holes and drill new ones, but the bit took the path of least resistance and just re-drilled the previous holes.
 

So I found a small sheet of copper clad PCB I’d bought ages ago for the ends of the fiddle yard tracks (still waiting to be built!) and cut up a strip to form two scale 10” x 8’ sleepers. I’ve fixed these either side of the join ready to attach the rails of the siding using double sided tape, but I’ll probably secure them further using panel pins pushed into predrilled holes through the sleepers and into the baseboard.
 

The “missing” sleepers above the copper clad ones will be added in once the crossover rails have gone in - they’ll interlace with the ones on the siding once everything is in place. And no, I didn’t forget to gap the copper!

 

This photo also shows the redone cork in the vee. I’m much happier with how this looks now; the shoulder of the crossover goes from clearly defined to absent (at the centre of the photo), while the “shoulder” of the siding on the yard side is much less well defined. Incidentally, the ‘+’ markings on the cork of the siding indicate the second re-alignment of the siding, while the line running practically through them is the centre line of the first re-alignment; obviously my first re-alignment wasn’t as wrong as I thought?

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga
Reinstated photos

[Tortuga]

Deleted

Edited March 6, 2022 by Tortuga
Duplicate Post

[5BarVT]

The LH copper clad seems to be part overlapping the gap.  Might a second one at the next sleeper back provide a bit of security should the edge one not hold properly?

Paul.

[Tortuga]

Today’s progress;

 

A bit of messy soldering on the right copper clad sleeper, but I’m sure the chairs will cover that up once I fit them. I’m going to cut the rails to length at the join so they haven’t been soldered on the left side.

 

The left copper clad sleeper isn’t actually overlapping the join, but it’s as near enough as makes no difference, so I’ll be adding a third copper clad as you suggested @5BarVT.

 

I’m thinking of realigning eight of the timbers between the two common crossings so that they’re perpendicular to the rails. I’m not certain from the photos, whether the timbers of the crossover were perpendicular to the rails or to the main line, but they were certainly interlaced with the sleepers of the siding. Unfortunately the photos I’ve found that show this area (all three of them) are in books, so I can’t put them up here for others to give their opinion on.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga
Reinstated photos

[Tortuga]

Had a quick play with sleeper positions on Templot and this is what I was thinking;

 

I’ll admit I’m not sure where the board join would land - I think it would be immediately to the right of the second sleeper on the “stub” of the bottom track.

 

The parallel sleeper arrangement can be seen in this photo from earlier on in the build;

 

Which do people think looks more correct? Frustratingly, I’m not able to post the relevant reference photos as they’re all from published material!

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga
Reinstated photos

[Tortuga]

I had (yet) another look at the photos of this area and had another quick play with Templot to give me the most likely sleeper arrangements.

 

1) Equalised sleepers through the crossover;

 

2) Sleepers square on to the mainline;

 

3) Sleepers square on to the crossover track (posted again for easier comparison);

From the photos I’ve come up with the following;

1) One photo seems to show equalised timbering through the point off the down line, but in the other two (taken looking in the opposite direction), the point timbers appear to be square on to the main line.

2) The crossover timbers in the only photo taken looking more or less straight down the 10’ between the down line and the goods loop appear to be square on to the main line.

3) In one photo the ends of the sleepers of the siding are clearly interlaced with the timbers of the crossover.

4) A photo of a crossover at Higher Buxton taken during track simplification shows very few long timbers extending the full double width of the track.

 

Given the above “evidence”, I think the second arrangement with the timbers of the crossover square on to the main line is the most likely scenario and I’m going to re-do the timbering and sleepers of this area as a result.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga
Reinstated photos

[Tortuga]

Oops.

 

…might’ve bought an 8F via a well-known internet auction site.

[MrWolf]

That sort of thing happens from time to time.

 

It's unavailable, accept it and move on...

[Tortuga]

It’ll make a change from the ubiquitous  Super Ds at any rate!

 

I’ll be renumbering and detailing it as 48745, which worked a special freight into Ashbourne at some point in 1952.

 

Should be an interesting working to recreate - going off the photo, the loco ran tender-first to Ashbourne, then propelled its brake van back to Buxton.

[Tortuga]

Update on progress;
After removing the sleepers, timbers and track plan from the cork under the crossover and filling in the old screw holes (again!), I stuck down a new Templot arrangement of timbers (the second version shown above), cut to fit the area in question and fitted standard length sleepers square on to the main line. This resulted in having to “shuffle” the sleepers on the down line between the three way point and the crossover, but the whole section looks better and has a more prototypical ‘feel’ now.

Since the filler had a couple of days to dry out by this point, I decided to try my luck using screws to secure the track ends again and this time managed to get fresh holes in the right place, then fitted the common crossing and soldered it to its securing screws.

 

With the common crossing in place, I’ve been able to lay the ‘straight’ rail of the goods loop…

…which in turn has enabled me to complete the blind siding/headshunt next to the tandem point and start laying the ‘curved’ rail of the goods loop - and that’s where I left it last night!

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga
Reinstated photos

[Tortuga]

I also finally built something that isn’t (technically!) a length of track or a point: the buffer stop for the end of the blind siding/headshunt!

 

This is the Lanarkshire Models LNWR buffer stop by @davefrk and I’d definitely recommend their kits. It was a delight to build with minimal flash and clear instructions. I chickened out and used superglue as I wasn’t convinced my developing soldering skills were up to the challenge! As usual, no connection to the manufacturer, just a very satisfied customer.
 

I’m tempted to add a couple more sleepers (without chairs) as it looks a touch under-supported at the moment (although in line with the instructions). I also need to double check that each side is isolated  from the other - if not I’ll have to replace the wire tie rod with a plastic one. 
Edit: just checked the electrical continuity of the buffer stop and I’m pleased to report the sides are fully isolated from each other!

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga
Update

[Tortuga]

Duplicate post

Edited March 17, 2022 by Tortuga
Deleted duplicate post

[Tortuga]

48745, propelling it’s brake van, approaches Alsop-en-le-Dale en-route back to Buxton after working a special freight to Ashbourne, while 49348 awaits the section token on the up line.

 

 

Ha! Not quite there yet! Track needs finishing, both locos and brake van need renumbering and the scenery needs to be… uh… started? Still, I couldn’t resist posing the new 8F and brake van on the layout - just to see how that special working might’ve looked during its return journey!

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Tortuga
Reinstated photos

[Tortuga]

…and we’re back online!

 

(Note: I’ve been back through this thread and reinstated as many of my missing photos as I can - there’s still a couple of photos / Templot screenshots missing from the first couple of pages, which might be elsewhere: I’ll reinstate those if I find them)

 

While RMWeb has been down, I’ve been concentrating on completing the Tandem 3-Way Point. All the switchblades are now in and linked to their under-baseboard mechanisms and all the checkrails have been fitted.

 

Aside from cosmetic fittings like fishplates and the stretcher bars (which I need to order from AMBIS Engineering), this is pretty much complete. For an introductory piece to hand building track, this has been a bit more “in at the deep end” and less of a kit than I’d like - I’ve certainly deviated from the instructions more than I’ve followed them!  Having said that, the instructions included in the 3-Way Point kit are not instructions for building a 3-Way Point, but are actually for a standard turnout (although they do state that a 3-Way Point kit “will soon be available”).

 

Now, the instructions say to electrically link the first set of switchblades to the outer running rails, but say nothing about the second set of switchblades, so I’m again at a temporary impasse. I assume the second set of switchblades need some sort of power feed as they are otherwise electrically dead, but where from?

Edited April 8, 2022 by Tortuga
Word order

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Tortuga,

You’re continuing to make great progress. I can’t help with your three way electrical problem as I struggle with such points when they are RTR! But I ASSUME that one ought to bond them to their own adjacent stock rails as with the first set - hopefully someone can come along and state whether I am talking rubbish.

Sorry I can’t say for certain.

John

[Tortuga]

That’s exactly what I’d assume as well.

In other news, I’ve started laying the switchblades for the next turnout along; a standard left-hand B6 turnout leading from the 3-way into the ‘goods loop’. Hopefully this one will be more straight forward than the 3-way!

 

 I’m also toying with extending the blind siding a touch. Currently, when acting as a headshunt to the goods siding it holds a Super D and three 8’ wheelbase wagons with no wiggle room, so I think it’d be better if it was a little longer - so the beam of the buffer stop was level with the second set of switchblades on the 3-way.

[lezz01]

Hi there.

I've sent you a PM about wiring tandem turnouts. I hope it helps. It's an EMGS manual sheet so please don't post it as it's copyrighted.

Regards Lez.