Any ideas for track plans?

[The lone cyberbloke]

I'm pretty new to railway modelling and thought that this would be the best place to get some advice. I was thinking of making an O gauge micro layout, either based on mountain Ash colliery or the longmoor military railway, so I'm looking for some advice on track plans. Preferably no more than 4ft and using only two points. Any help would be much appreciated. 

 

[Kris]

Your best chance is to google micro layouts (or use the search function on here), this will provide lots of inspiration. Fitting 2 points into 4ft in O gauge however will be a challenge. 

 

It is possible to scale up Scalescenes models to O gauge. They do a couple of micro layouts meant to fit in a box file for 4mm but these would fit into the size you are looking for in O. 

['CHARD]

You could do worse than a search for 'Minories' -style, or 'shunting-puzzle' layouts.  

 

There are realistically quite limited permutations given your spec!  

 

 

[The lone cyberbloke]

Thanks folks, will give it a go see if there anything I like the look of.

I have looked it up and there is nothing that met any of my criteria. will keep looking. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by The lone cyberbloke

[Dungrange]

Two points implies you're looking at something often referred to as an 'Inglenook'.  The issue is that four foot isn't really long enough to make it work well in O Gauge.

 

If micro layouts is your desired genre, then you may be interested in https://www.carendt.com/micro-layout-design-gallery/  

 

Alternatively, browse some of the layouts in the micro layout section of this forum.  https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/151-boxfiles-micro-layouts-dioramas/

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Dungrange

[The lone cyberbloke]

Thanks for the links, How much would I have to enlarge a OO gauge layout to be O gauge? I could possibly go to 6ft in length. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by The lone cyberbloke

[Dungrange]

5 minutes ago, The lone cyberbloke said:

How much would I have to enlarge a OO gauge layout to be O gauge?

 

O Gauge is 7mm / ft, whereas 00 is 4 mm / ft.  Therefore, a track plan that fits in four foot in 00, will require seven foot in O Gauge.  If you can go to six foot, then that would be the equivalent of about 3'6" in 00, which can work, but it depends on your choice of stock.

[The lone cyberbloke]

Thanks folks, will go away and have a think about what to do and maybe draw up a track plan

[The Johnster]

The limiting factor (apart from space) is the size of the trains you want to run and the clearing points at turnouts beyond which stock will foul.  A Hunslet 18” is about 9” long in 7mm, and a 9’ wheelbase coal wagon     about 5, allowing for buffers and couplings.  In 4 feet, even using the smallest radius Peco Y turnouts which are about 15” long, train lengths are going to be very short if the layout is to be self contained.   If you can have a loco and 2 wagons in a headshunt clear of the turnout, that will mean the headshunt needs to be over 18” long, and as the turnout is 15” long on top of that, you will only have about 13 or 14 inches max  in the sidings, not quite enough for 3 wagons but enough for the loco and 2 inside clear.  
 

And that’s with only one Y turnout.  If you an manage a removable offstage headshunt about 3’ long, or even 2’, matters become much easier, as you can put a turnout at the end of the permanent baseboard, and will be able to cope with trains of half a dozen wagons, and possibly 3 sidings and a kickback.  The loco can now move offstage with a few wagons and appear to be going somewhere to do something, and conversely coming from doing something somewhere else to do something here.  
 

Have a look at Talywaun ‘Big Arch’ loco shed on the Abersychan NCB system; the layout may be adaptable to your purposes. 
 

Of course, if an Inglenook is what floats your boat, who am I to sink it?  Personally, I don’t like the standard Inglenook; it is brilliant as a puzzle but highly unrealistic as a model railway.  Not so bad with an offstage fiddle yard, or as part of a larger layout, but then it can’t fully exploit the puzzle element. 

[Happy Hippo]

Although a direct scaling up means that a four foot length in 4mm scale becomes seven feet for 7 mm scale, as a modeller who actually builds in 7 mm scale, I'd suggest that you don't mess around with the scaling up by 175%.

 

 Just go and double any layout dimensions, so for instance 4 ft long in 4mm scale = 8ft long in 7 mm scale.

[melmerby]

23 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Although a direct scaling up means that a four foot length in 4mm scale becomes seven feet for 7 mm scale, as a modeller who actually builds in 7 mm scale, I'd suggest that you don't mess around with the scaling up by 175%.

 

 Just go and double any layout dimensions, so for instance 4 ft long in 4mm scale = 8ft long in 7 mm scale.

Strictly speaking the track is being doubled up by going from H0 (Half 0) to 0, it's just the rolling stock that is the wrong (4mm) scale!

[Thunderforge]

If you’re willing to include a traverser in your plan I’d recommend looking at Jim Read’s micro layouts;

https://ogaugemicro.blogspot.com/p/maltby.html?m=1

Lots of shunting potential there. 

 

Also I’m a fan of Maldon Market Hill as well;

https://www.carendt.com/small-layout-scrapbook/page-59a-march-2007/

[dpgibbons]

For a short layout a hidden sector plate or traverser is indispensable.

[Dungrange]

20 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

There are realistically quite limited permutations given your spec!  

 

Yes, I think there are only three possible track plans that meet the specification.

1. Points joined toe to toe
2. Points joined heel to heel
3. Points joined toe to heel

 

It's just picking one of these three and then thinking about how to fit it into a very limited space for the chosen scale.

[The lone cyberbloke]

I think it may be back to the drawing board with this layout, maybe OO would be better. 

[Curlew]

Some Longmoor military railway type locos are available in N gauge too.

[The lone cyberbloke]

I don't think you can get austerity's in N, or can you? 

[Kris]

56 minutes ago, The lone cyberbloke said:

I don't think you can get austerity's in N, or can you? 

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/35030/graham-farish-372-429-n-gauge-wd-austerity-class-major-general-mc-mullen-lmr-blue-2-8-0-steam-locomotive-no-79250?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-67d0auG8QIVDertCh35cQxlEAQYAiABEgJNAfD_BwE

 

 

[The Johnster]

00 has a lot to recommend it; more space of course and a much larger variety of locos and stock available RTR at very hig quality of both detail and running.  Detail is pretty good on most current models, so the senior scale has less advantage here than it once did as well.  And the models are about half the price of 0, so a 00 layout will be 'bigger' and cost about the same as an 0 gauge one. 

 

But it's not all good news.  00 RTR is highly diversified and comprehsive, but the range of RTR industrials is almost as limited as it is in 0.  Your suggested prototypes, Longmoor and Mountain Ash, are Hunslet 18" ('Austerity/J94) territory, but Longmoor had other types and Mountain Ash had RSH, Hudwell Clarke, and Avonside 0-6-0STs, and an ex BR 08 (D3000) as well as a 57xx.  The last two are available as RTR in both 0 and 00 but the others are kit builds; we do not know if you are comfortable with this. 

 

Also, the space available is not huge in 00; Happy HIppo's very sensible suggestion that 00 dimensions be doubled to convert to 0 does not work the other way about; 00 takes more like 2 thirds than half the space of 0.  But the smaller scale will result in you being able to lay longer sidings and shunt longer rakes of wagons, and if the need is to restrict the length to 4', you will be able to manage a plausible layout within that size.  An industrial 0-6-0 tank loco in 00 is about 4 inches long and a 9' wheebase wagon, i.e, a 16ton steel mineral or 7 plank wooden one, about 2 and a half (the measurments over buffers are less than this but we must allow for couplings as well.  The type will be dependent on the radius of the turnouts, and scale are probably going to be pushing it a bit, so tension locks or Kaydees are more likely!)

 

If the 'reception' road is the full length of the board, 4', and there is a y turnout just under 6 inches long located centrally, then you have 21 inches clear each side of it, which equates to the loco and 8 wagons.  If you move the turnout to accommodate less wagons in the headshunt, there will be more room in the sidings.  I know more about Mountain Ash (and it is that type of scenario I am envisioning, with a mix of steel 16tonners and internal user 7 plankers), and I do not really feel qualified to comment on Longmoor but there would have been a lot of longer wagons there I imagine, which will translate to trains of less vehicles on a layout of a specific size.

 

The trick with these minimum space layouts is to leave enough open unused space to give an uncrowded feel, which usually means one or two less sidings than the board can accommodate, and I recommend not having the parallel to each other or converging at the buffer ends, or neccessarily dead straight.  I would suggest 3 roads, and a kickback siding off one of them as well, as that provides a reason for two locos to work the layout; in the Mountain Ash scenario these might be a reception/departure road, a wagon repair siding, and a landsale siding (where household coal was sold direct from the premises, and, more importantly, concession coal for NCB employees was collected.  Nothing fancy, just wagons and heaps of coal on the floor, sacks, and a weighing machine, no office or cells like you would find in a goods yard where coal is handled by merchants).  A hoist for the wagon repair siding, and maybe a small office, and you have a layout!

[The Johnster]

37 minutes ago, Kris said:

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/35030/graham-farish-372-429-n-gauge-wd-austerity-class-major-general-mc-mullen-lmr-blue-2-8-0-steam-locomotive-no-79250?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-67d0auG8QIVDertCh35cQxlEAQYAiABEgJNAfD_BwE

 

 

I think he means the Hunslet J94 type saddle tanks, though AFAIK these are available in N as well.

[F-UnitMad]

O scale in 4 foot? No problem. (total length including hidden fiddlestick is actually 4ft 8in)

 

 

No problem, but no points, either.

[Nearholmer]

If my phone camera hadnt suddenly decided to go on the blink, I could show you what an Austerity tank in 0 scale looks like on a 3ft 6in long board, with two points of the radius of Peco set-track, because that is half of my tiny layout photo-plank. Using the third of Dungrange's topologies, and ensuring that loco and one wagon can fit on the neck, it gives you two sidings that will accept one wagon each, and one that will accept two, or possibly three with fag-paper clearance.

 

In short (very short), it would be too short to leave you anything but short-tempered when operating it.

 

Going up to 4ft adds one wagon-length to each siding, which doesn't really help much.

 

Now, people, notably Ron French, have built 0 gauge layouts in tinier spaces, but for my money you need 7ft, or better 8ft, to create something that is reasonably operable, unless you are happy to rely on hidden traversers and other similar "stagecraft".

 

EDIT: Hadn't seen FU's when I posted. That's what I mean by "stagecraft", and you either love it, or find it a bit unsatisfying as an operation.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Kris]

9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I think he means the Hunslet J94 type saddle tanks, though AFAIK these are available in N as well.

Second hand yes, but not new.

[The lone cyberbloke]

Thanks for the advice, I'll go and have a look around and report back if I come up with anything.