Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 6 hours ago, PatB said: Was an element in Triang's success also that they (or the parent, Lines) were, at the time, a huge company with many product lines? Meccano Ltd, as far as I'm aware, had Meccano, Dublo, Dinky and the last, limping remnants of their 0 gauge range. Nothing much else springs to mind, although I daresay Meccano experts are aware of other ventures. Triang/Lines, OTOH, had trains (with far more accessories, like OHLE, lineside kits and scenic materials), 3 flavours of slot-car (Scalextric, Minic and, IIRC, Magicar, aimed at younger children), prams, tricycles, diecast cars (was it Spot-On?), probably a Lego clone (everyone seemed to be trying that in the 60s) and no doubt any number of things I can't remember. Such diversification would have been useful in weathering downturns in the toy train market, especially that caused by the slot-car explosion in the early 60s, as a significant amount of lost sales in Triang Railways would simply have moved across to Scalextric, keeping the company's overall sales roughly constant. Meccano Ltd. also had other construction toys. Bayko is a system for making 1:43 scale (O Gauge) buildings. It consists of base plates with holes, into which metal rods are inserted. Plastic sections of “brickwork”, etc., and special sections for windows and doors fit in between and around the rods, topped off with roofing. Originally an independent company, Plimpton Engineering, from 1933, Meccano acquired Bayko in 1959 or 1960. It was no longer promoted after the Lines Bros. take over in 1964, and the introduction of CliKi, see below... https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Bayko Dinky Builder was aimed at younger children. This was a system of metal plates with interlocking edges, held together with metal rods. This system was introduced in 1934. It lasted until around 1964-5. https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Dinky_Builder From 1964, a Lego like system, called CliKi, was introduced. This was short lived. https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Cliki https://www.meccanoindex.co.uk/Other/Cliki/index.php?id=1553324503 Tri-ang had a Bayko like construction system, Arkitex, made by Spot-on in Belfast. Made from around 1959 to around 1965. This also used panels, but held together with plastic girders. This was made in two scales, 1:42, to suit Spot-on vehicles and O gauge, and OO scale, to fit with Tri-ang Railways. https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Arkitex Tri-ang had its own Lego like system, also from around 1964, Pennybrix, which was made for some time, and even had a railway set. https://tri-angman.co.uk/product/tri-ang-m1001-periwinkle-railway-superb-boxed-condition/ https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Pennybrix There was another Tri-ang system, that wasn’t introduced. This was to use Tri-ang Railways and Scalextric chassis, to which Lego like bricks could be fitted, enabling the building of moving models. This is mentioned in Pat Hammonds books... ( While I have been compiling this, there have been other replies! ) 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherman Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ruffnut Thorston said: Meccano Ltd. also had other construction toys. Bayko is a system for making 1:43 scale (O Gauge) buildings. It consists of base plates with holes, into which metal rods are inserted. Plastic sections of “brickwork”, etc., and special sections for windows and doors fit in between and around the rods, topped off with roofing. Originally an independent company, Plimpton Engineering, from 1933, Meccano acquired Bayko in 1959 or 1960. It was no longer promoted after the Lines Bros. take over in 1964, and the introduction of CliKi, see below... https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Bayko Dinky Builder was aimed at younger children. This was a system of metal plates with interlocking edges, held together with metal rods. This system was introduced in 1934. It lasted until around 1964-5. https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Dinky_Builder From 1964, a Lego like system, called CliKi, was introduced. This was short lived. https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Cliki https://www.meccanoindex.co.uk/Other/Cliki/index.php?id=1553324503 Tri-ang had a Bayko like construction system, Arkitex, made by Spot-on in Belfast. Made from around 1959 to around 1965. This also used panels, but held together with plastic girders. This was made in two scales, 1:42, to suit Spot-on vehicles and O gauge, and OO scale, to fit with Tri-ang Railways. https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Arkitex Tri-ang had its own Lego like system, also from around 1964, Pennybrix, which was made for some time, and even had a railway set. https://tri-angman.co.uk/product/tri-ang-m1001-periwinkle-railway-superb-boxed-condition/ https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Pennybrix There was another Tri-ang system, that wasn’t introduced. This was to use Tri-ang Railways and Scalextric chassis, to which Lego like bricks could be fitted, enabling the building of moving models. This is mentioned in Pat Hammonds books... ( While I have been compiling this, there have been other replies! ) Hi Ruffnut, I remember as a child having BettaBuilda, That came with individual roof tiles that clicked together. I remember they were olive green and the bricks were white. Unfortunately the brick sizes were quite limited and there were no double width bricks or wheels. All my friends had Lego and I was quite envious of them as you could do so much more with Lego. I had great deal of it given me for a Christmas present, There were several big sets. So I think my mother must have bought out all of a shops left over stock that year. Would have been about 1968. Edited July 3, 2021 by cypherman 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) I had a Bayko set, obtained from a Scout jumble sale. Fun and ideal for modelling 30's semis. The Pennybrix reminds me of a mid-60s modular building system for real houses. I've only seen an advert in something like Practical Home Owner illustrating a man in a suit building himself a porch for his house... @cypherman I remember BettaBilda, someone gave it to me for either a birthday or Christmas present one year. The rooftiles were fiddly and the bricks were slightly out compared with my real Lego bricks. It didn't last long! Edited July 3, 2021 by Hroth 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) Betta Bilda was the Airfix Lego like system. The bricks didn’t lock together as well as real Lego. Many tall buildings came crashing down! The roofing was indeed individual slates. Our Bayko came from a school Fete... Edited July 3, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston Typo..added bayko...changed spelling... 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 3, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2021 1 hour ago, BernardTPM said: Yes, die-casts were Spot-On (1:42 scale) though discontinued in favour of Dinky after the take-over. The Minic name was used for various series, the electric cars being Minic Motorways (buses and lorries in 4mm scale, though the cars were larger) but there were Minic clockwork vehicles too, originally tinplate, later plastic. FROG model aircraft (both flying and plastic kits, later expanded to non-aircraft models too), Arkitex and Pennybrix building systems, the former in 1:76 and 1:42 scales to suit Tri-ang Railways and Spot-On cars, the latter more a child orientated Lego/Betta Builder rival. Real Estate/Model Land building kits and the 4mm scale MINIX cars were from the outset intended as model railway accessories. Pedigree covered prams, cuddly toys and Sindy dolls while the Tri-ang brand was also used for tricycles and similar push or pull-alongs. There was the Big Big Train too. Meccano Limited did make other products too beyond the well-known big 3 (Meccano, Dinky and Hornby/Hornby Dublo) including clockwork toys (cars, boats), Kemex chemistry sets, Meccano Brik and Konkrete building sets, etc. and very late (1959) on took over the Bayko range. The latter they set about retooling which must have been quite a drain on resources, especially given they were heavily investing in the new 2-rail HD system too. Don't forget Minic Ships. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Betta_Bilda https://www.inverso.pt/legos/clones/texts/bettabilda.htm Edited July 3, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston More added 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherman Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Ruffnut Thorston said: https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Betta_Bilda Hi Ruff, Thats it. Was great for building semis and bungalows. Several of my early model railways as a child had it's buildings built from it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) The real-life Pennybrix: Homemaker magazine, April 1968. I wonder if the BettaBuilder claim of "over 350 pieces" consisted mainly of the rooftiles? Edited July 3, 2021 by Hroth 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: Don't forget Minic Ships. https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Minic_Ships http://www.tri-ang.co.uk/OO Latest/MinicShips.htm Edited July 3, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston More added 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainwright1 Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ruffnut Thorston said: https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Minic_Ships http://www.tri-ang.co.uk/OO Latest/MinicShips.htm I think that these are/were still available until recently. I seem to recall that EFE had some involvement with them until they went under. Possibly someone else has the rights now ? All the best Ray 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 3, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2021 21 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: Don't forget Minic Ships. 4 minutes ago, wainwright1 said: they went under. Very good! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) The Minic ships have been relaunched by Hornby in 1976 as “Minic Ships”, and later by others. In 2003 by a London-based company going by the name of Tri-ang Minic Ships Ltd. It seems that these are no longer in production, but stock is still available from some retailers... https://anticsonline.uk/Category/Triang-Minic-Ships_N1350 Oxford Diecast have been involved... https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/collections/triang https://mikepigottsdiecasttoysandmodels.wordpress.com/2018/11/06/Hornby-minic-ships/ Edited July 3, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston More added 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said: Still got quite a bit in a small wooden box. Set 14 Wall Units are still nice mouldings that, if you had enough of them, would be ideal for a 4mm scale early 1960s tower block. The large panels are 63mm wide, 38mm high. Edited July 3, 2021 by BernardTPM 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 59 minutes ago, Ruffnut Thorston said: Betta Bilda was the Airfix Lego like system. The bricks didn’t lock together as well as real Lego. Many tall buildings came crashing down! Part of the reason for that was the use of styrene rater than a more flexible plastic. Of course it also throws up the solution : Mek! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 45 minutes ago, cypherman said: Hi Goingunderground. One of the problems with going the stud contact route was that Marklin were the only company that tried with any seriousness to do that in Europe. Every one else was going down the 2 rail route. Hence if you wanted to try and sell trains in Europe the 2 rail route was going to be the most financially viable. I know that the USA did go with the 3rd rail studded track for quite sometime. But even that has in the main eventually changed to 2 rail. Whilst you are right in many aspects, there is one point that I don't agree with and that is about 2 rail being the most financially viable route in mainland Europe. Maerklin was the market leader and they were 3 rail AC. So if the other makers didn't offer 3 rail AC versions of their locos etc, then they were artificially restricting their sales which would have raised their selling prices as they'd have to recover their development costs over a lower sales base.. Maerklin are still, today, the market leader in several countries and the other manufacturers make 3 rail versions of their locos because they cannot afford to ignore the large Maerklin user base. Maerklin did have one advantage over Hornby in that they kept with low voltage AC which differentiated their system from the 2 rail "upstarts". Hornby didn't have that luxury as Rovex Plastics and through them Triang also used the 12V DC system. But their positions were similar in that both were the market leader in their respective home markets with very good reputations. Stud contact worked and still works for Maerklin and I think it could have worked just as well in terms of competing against Triang for Dublo. But it would have needed to be accompanied by the Dublo management taking Triang seriously instead of resting on their laurels in the belief, correct or otherwise, that theirs was the superior product. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 On the subject of toy building bricks there was a system that used hard rubber bricks, with 2 studs on top and 2 holes in the bottom which was called "Minibrix" https://minibrix.com/index.php Minibrix predates Lego as it was introduced in 1935 whereas Lego started in 1949. They were not part of the Lines Bros group. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Tri-ang also had a range of small clockwork boats. I had a trawler, I think, and there was a tug using the same hull. All plastic, which has been mentioned several times as Tri-ang's big manufacturing advantage. The age of plastic moulding was well under way... This one was in the Cromer lifeboat museum, along with a load of very good model lifeboats. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 There were also Penguin plastic boats in the Tri-ang range. They had two snags - acetate plastic and a tendency to sink with dire effects on the clockwork motor - no prizes for guessing how I know! Bayko and Dinky builder were both quite deadly, especially as the latter was intended for younger children. The later had a nasty tool consisting of a metal rod stuck in a wooden handle to push the pins in and out of the plates. Somehow I managed to avoid stabbing myself with mine. There was also Brickplayer using 'real' bricks and mortar. I don't think this was part of either range though it was always advertsised in 'Meccano Magazine' I was not allowed to have it. I can't think why? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Just looked up that the Penguin and Tri-ang branded boats were finally sold as Scalex (info from Brighton Toy museum site). This got confusing as Scalex was a brandname of Minimodels Ltd who were taken over by Lines Bros ( looks like Scalex became the Scalextric brand name). Lines Bros certainly seemed to have had a lot of different brand names for various types of toys. If they'd made the acetate moulded ones with a better non-warping plastic..... Further research has found pictures of a cabin cruiser I recognise as having had, called Burnham, also clockwork. Tri-ang also did a couple of liners. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Il Grifone said: There was also Brickplayer using 'real' bricks and mortar. I don't think this was part of either range though it was always advertsised in 'Meccano Magazine' I was not allowed to have it. I can't think why? I was going to mention Brickplayer. Another toy I was given a long time ago, and still have. Its fairly complete. You built the building using "real bricks" mortared together with what appears to be wallpaper paste. Once you got bored with it, you soaked it in water and it fell apart. Clean the bricks with a nailbrush, let 'em dry out and start again! It has metal doors and windowframes. A Spears of Enfield product Borrowed the Brickplayer box and contents illustration from ebay. Similar construction sets are still available. A German system called Teifoc is available from Amazon. Edited July 3, 2021 by Hroth Extra info 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 (edited) IIRC (it was a long time ago!) there was a tug and a drifter (at something like 3/6d) and some larger boats. The bigger ones were about a £1 and electric? There was also a very small scale train set (again about £1 - 19/6d?) which consisted of a small oval with two reversing loops, the whole thing driven by a large handle over a tunnel at one end. Edited July 3, 2021 by Il Grifone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Ruffnut Thorston said: The Minic ships have been relaunched by Hornby in 1976 as “Minic Ships”, and later by others. In 2003 by a London-based company going by the name of Tri-ang Minic Ships Ltd, Oxford Diecast have been involved... https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/collections/triang https://mikepigottsdiecasttoysandmodels.wordpress.com/2018/11/06/Hornby-minic-ships/ A few of the latest models that Oxford were selling, that I bought several years ago. Here are lightships (which now have helicopter landing pads) and new pilot boats. Still some models in stock on the Oxford site but most show as out of stock now. The tug and older lightship are original castings (but Oxford still have a current steam tug available). My son-in-law's father told me he had the Minic Britannia in both Royal Yacht and Hospital ship versions, probably quite rare.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted July 3, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2021 3 hours ago, GoingUnderground said: We all tend to think of the 2 rail system as a heavy draw financially on the Meccano group, and it probably was. But the actual development expenditure was restricted to the new track as the rolling stock only needed insulated wheelsets, and coaches and wagons with insulated wheelsets ran just as well on 2 rail as 3 rail. The true drain probably came in the form of additional working capital in stocking up with 2 rail locos and the new 2 rail track. I've found this topic very interesting, so again thank you all for your views. But I still believe that Meccano handled the change to 2 rail very badly, and if they'd gone down the 3 rail stud contact route in the mid/late 1950s like Maerklin and not bothered with 2 rail, and took the competition from Lines Bros' Triang Railways more seriously, then Hornby Dublo would have lasted a lot longer than it did. The problem being that you were tied to the Hornby Dublo system, which others have previously stated, it was more expensive and not as readily available. It may have been better for Hornby, if someone else had shared their system. But it was a monopoly and far from being a bonus, it went against them. Going 2 rail was definitely the end of the line and even that wasn't compatible with Tri-ang or anyone else. Tri-ang once they invented Super 4 track and the X04 motor, had an excellent pair of products that were reliable and were cheap to make. That and their ability to come up with new models on a regular basis, put them a long way in front of Hornby. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherman Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 1 hour ago, railroadbill said: Tri-ang also had a range of small clockwork boats. I had a trawler, I think, and there was a tug using the same hull. All plastic, which has been mentioned several times as Tri-ang's big manufacturing advantage. The age of plastic moulding was well under way... This one was in the Cromer lifeboat museum, along with a load of very good model lifeboats. My god thats a blast from the past. i had that life boat as a child. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 34 minutes ago, kevinlms said: The problem being that you were tied to the Hornby Dublo system, which others have previously stated, it was more expensive and not as readily available. It may have been better for Hornby, if someone else had shared their system. But it was a monopoly and far from being a bonus, it went against them. Going 2 rail was definitely the end of the line and even that wasn't compatible with Tri-ang or anyone else. Tri-ang once they invented Super 4 track and the X04 motor, had an excellent pair of products that were reliable and were cheap to make. That and their ability to come up with new models on a regular basis, put them a long way in front of Hornby. Having a unique system isn't always a disadvantage. It can be an advantage if customers prefer it over the offerings from the competition, in which case it becomes a highly desirable Unique Selling Point, provided the areas where your system loses out to competition are regarded as trivial. Being 3 rail stud contact low voltage AC didn't disadvantage Maerklin significantly, as far as I know. If it had then surely they wouldn't be so significant a player today in continental Europe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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