DCC Track Bus and Analogue Points

[Mike MR]

My first post - hope that this is the right forum! I'm planning a layout that will have DCC to run the locomotives via a track bus, and analogue point motors (Cobalt Omega or IP Analogue). Points will be Peco Code 75 electrofrog. Are there any particular electrical issues with this combination of which I should be aware? All advice gratefully received - thank you in anticipation.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Is the rest of your layout Code 75?

 

I have analog points but a DCC layout.

It seemed too much effort to have to type in a DCC address just to throw a point (but then my layout is fairly simple).

 

But I run a bus for my points (and signals) and a separate bus for the rails though.

[johnb]

It's the way I do it myself DCC to the track and analogue to Tortoise point motors without issues. I use the auxiliary contacts on the Tortoise to switch the frogs. Just need to be careful that the DCC and analogue systems do not make contact. The Tortoise are of course stall motors so the analogue wiring is always live. I'm just careful with routing the wires and if necessary use heat shrink insulation if necessary.

The layout has done a number of exhibitions without problems arising from transportation knocks.

[JohnR]

My layout is DCC, but the points are controlled by a "traditional" analogue system with lever switches. 

[brossard]

My first 00 gauge layout, 20 odd years ago now, was initially DC with analogue Tortoise.  I quickly converted to DCC but left the analogue motors.  This layout went to shows without many issues.  One issue I did have at a show was a mystery short that was traced to wire soldered direct to the edge connector on the Tortoise and touching.  Lesson - use D connectors.

 

Difficulty I found was that I needed a control panel which is complex and wires need to be routed back and forth and across baseboard joins.

 

My current layout is 0 gauge DCC.  I am using the same Tortoises from the first layout.  This time though I use stationary decoders (wabbits) from another layout I built.  These get an address but this is never used.  Instead I have wired momentary push buttons to them.  The buttons are in the fascia on both sides and adjacent to the turnouts.  Result is no control panel.  The only issue I have found is that my stomach changes points when I lean over the layout.

 

If I was starting afresh I think I would opt for Cobalt.

 

More details on my layout can be found in the link below.

 

John

[Nigelcliffe]

1 hour ago, brossard said:

My first 00 gauge layout, 20 odd years ago now, was initially DC with analogue Tortoise.....................

 

My current layout is 0 gauge DCC.  I am using the same Tortoises from the first layout.  This time though I use stationary decoders (wabbits) from another layout I built.  These get an address but this is never used.  Instead I have wired momentary push buttons to them.  The buttons are in the fascia on both sides and adjacent to the turnouts.  Result is no control panel.  The only issue I have found is that my stomach changes points when I lean over the layout..............

 

I think you're using an NCE system.   You could add a "minipanel" NCE device to your setup, and create a push-button panel to operate the turnouts using that device, rather than typing numbers into throttles, or having push buttons wired from decoders to the front of the layout. 

One MiniPanel will do 15 turnouts (30 buttons) if setup as one turnout per pair of buttons.  Or, buttons can be used to operate "routes" stored in the NCE system, which are multiple turnouts from one button push.   You've 30 buttons per MiniPanel, and can use multiple MiniPanels on a layout. 

 There are other devices from other manufacturers which do similar jobs on the NCE cab-bus (where the throttles plug in).   

 

- Nigel

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

7 hours ago, Mike MR said:

......Are there any particular electrical issues with this combination of which I should be aware? .....

 

Hi Mike, welcome.

it's perfectly OK to retain analogue operation for the point motors.

Just remember to follow the Cobalt instructions for switching frog polarity, by using the second set of contacts, which are isolated from the DC powered motor side of the motor.

 

 

6 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

.....I have analog points but a DCC layout.

It seemed too much effort to have to type in a DCC address just to throw a point .....

 

You don't have to type in addresses to throw a point.

There are other ways to operate points with DCC (via control panel or independent switches or buttons, with mini point levers, via a computer software package etc, etc.).

 

 

6 hours ago, JohnR said:

My layout is DCC, but the points are controlled by a "traditional" analogue system with lever switches. 

 

Traditional?

My points are controlled by "traditional" DCC.

DCC has been around for over a quarter of a century.

 

 

2 hours ago, brossard said:

....Difficulty I found was that I needed a control panel which is complex and wires need to be routed back and forth and across baseboard joins.

 

......Instead I have wired momentary push buttons to them.  The buttons are in the fascia on both sides and adjacent to the turnouts.  Result is no control panel.  .......

 

John. As Nigel says; you could have a control panel to operate the points via DCC .....if you so wished, that is.

The necessary kit is available to do this.

It would completely remove the requirement to have all those wires routing  back and forth, as you say.

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[brossard]

Quite right Nigel, NCE.  My layout is not complicated.  I have got it set up and working well.

 

 

This was taken a while ago, the layout is much further advanced now.  The back of the layout is the same so operation from either side.  I like things simple.

 

John

[brossard]

1 minute ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

John. You could have a control panel to operate the points via DCC .....if you so wished, that is.

It would completely remove the requirement to have all those wires routing  back and forth, as you say.

 Our posts crossed but you can see that the fascia is the control panel.  I have had several operating sessions with others (not many 0 gaugers around here) and all agree the layout works well.

 

John

[brossard]

13 hours ago, Mike MR said:

My first post - hope that this is the right forum! I'm planning a layout that will have DCC to run the locomotives via a track bus, and analogue point motors (Cobalt Omega or IP Analogue). Points will be Peco Code 75 electrofrog. Are there any particular electrical issues with this combination of which I should be aware? All advice gratefully received - thank you in anticipation.

 

There is another option that uses manual point actuation.

 

https://ppw-aline.com/collections/blue-point-manual-turnout-controller

 

I was privileged to operate a friends DCC layout at a show a couple of years ago.  He has these and I was impressed.

 

John

[Mike MR]

Many thanks to all of you for the very helpful responses, particularly Ron Ron Ron for covering the frog polarity issue, which was one of the things that I was concerned about.

[JohnR]

17 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Traditional?

My points are controlled by "traditional" DCC.

DCC has been around for over a quarter of a century.

 

 

 

I did put traditional in quotes for that reason! 

[DCCconcepts]

On 06/07/2021 at 10:53, Mike MR said:

Many thanks to all of you for the very helpful responses, particularly Ron Ron Ron for covering the frog polarity issue, which was one of the things that I was concerned about.

 

As Ron and John say, make sure the track switching is kept separate from the analog power to control the points.

This is easily accomplished on a Cobalt motor.

On a Classic Omega and Analog IP motor there are two electrically independent SPDT changeover contacts - marked S2-L/C/R and S3-L/C/R- either can be used for frog polarity.

Connect the track feeds to the L and R terminals and frog to the C terminal. If the frog polarity is incorrect, swap over the wires to the L and R terminals.

 

Best Regards,

The DCCconcepts Team

[Neils WRX]

I have 2 layouts, one was build as a analogue and subsequently converted to DCC but the points were left as analogue control with a separate wired control panel. Loco control is via a Roco Z21 Multimaus Wifi controller or an iPad.

 

The second layout is fully DCC with Colbolt Digital Point Motors, control is via the same Roco Z21 and iPad. 

 

One thing I do like about the fully digital layout is the route setting and digital interlocking with the signals and flank protection on the points which is a great addition and makes operation even more enjoyable, as you just select a single route with one button.

 

I've even considering completely rewiring the original analogue to be completely DCC to give the same route setting functionality.

 

Thanks,

 

Neil