Goods Shed and Engine Shed locations for Branch Line Terminus

[BWsTrains]

6 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

It might be worth thinking about a possible history of this imaginary branch line, to guide towards a realistic layout. AGREE

 

If the line was originally intended to go further but the money ran out, then the station would almost certainly be laid out as a through station, ending in buffers at one end. That would probably take up more space than is available. However, it would justify a terminus with very limited facilities as the village it served wasn't expected to justify the existence of the line.

Least probable scenario I'd suggest. Building the line would be driven by the economic imperative, and there would be very little financial recovery from stopping at some minor midpoint.

 

On the other hand, if the line was always intended to terminate here, then a true terminus layout is easier to justify and you can imagine it's cramped by surrounding physical/human geography.

As seen at Moretonhampstead and Wallingford and I'm sure many others, even very small places had businesses keen for the Railway to come their way  and could support significant rail infrastructure. Many of these had Engine Sheds and as Headmaster points out the location varied, depending on the setting etc.

 

If it was built to terminate here, then WHY was it built? A tiny station with a couple of sidings just big enough to serve a village probably wouldn't justify the building of the line. There must have been some particular industry/agriculture/wharf/mine etc to be served. (see below) I think my gut feel would be to forget the engine shed idea (see above), and use what extra space is available to serve a particular traffic of your choice. Nothing too big as there isn't space, though a lot could be represented in low relief. How about a mill, factory, brewery, river wharf, dairy etc? Something to justify why the railway is there, and provide some extra freight traffic to shunt.

It's worth looking at high detail maps of your era and region, you'll be surprised how much local industry was to be found in even the smallest of towns in those days.

 

For my main comments, see above in the Quote.

 

The key issue, as was pointed out when I went along this path is the limited volume and diversity of traffic on a typical branch-line, three or four trains a day. As suggested, decent backstory and setting will create the local interest for your layout to get the most out of the situation.

 

In my final plan (GWR -SW England) I found room for a single Engine Shed because it was so commonplace and made logistic sense. Without one, local shunting could not commence until a shunter had made it's way from the nearest shed in the network. I've been told this situation changed from about 1930 on but have no source for this info.

Edited August 6, 2021 by BWsTrains

[Flying Pig]

6 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

Without one, local shunting could not commence until a shunter had made it's way from the nearest shed in the network. I've been told this situation changed from about 1930 on but have no source for this info.

 

I wouldn't have thought there was ever much local shunting to be done in a very small station like the ones being considered in this thread.  What there was could surely have been done by the locos of visiting goods trains, with repositioning of individual wagons between times carried out manually?

 

[Zomboid]

Any local shunting would most likely have been horse or pinch-bar, but those are hard to model.

[Flying Pig]

4 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Any local shunting would most likely have been horse or pinch-bar, but those are hard to model.

 

And mostly unnecessary unless you are very pedantic about operation.  Quite involved systems of delivering and removing wagons can work happily without having to position them more exactly than the correct siding and maybe in the right order, which can be done with the goods engine.  An exception is if you design in a kickback say that can't realistically be shunted with a loco.

 

If you really need to move wagons manually, I still think a scale porter with pinch bar glued to a wire handle would be a reasonable tool.   

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

If you really need to move wagons manually, I still think a scale porter with pinch bar glued to a wire handle would be a reasonable tool.   

on a Subbuteo base?

[Flying Pig]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

on a Subbuteo base?

 

No handle required in that case, but it would take a bit of skill to shunt succesfully. 

[BWsTrains]

17 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

I wouldn't have thought there was ever much local shunting to be done in a very small station like the ones being considered in this thread.  What there was could surely have been done by the locos of visiting goods trains, with repositioning of individual wagons between times carried out manually?

 

Perhaps Stationmaster has a view on why so many small BLTs had a dedicated shed if this were the case. Why were they needed given they were so common?

 

Moretonhampstead, Wallingford, Faringdon (?), Hemyock, Malmesbury, Tetbury, Cirencester........   the list goes on. GWR only as that's my interest, has OP given a location?

 

It did occur to me that shunting would have been a non-stardard routine depending on stock locations and requirements. Waiting on the inbound loco to do the job would have made keeping to a timetable difficult especially as the outgoing goods would often make a connection at the main line junction

 

These were typical BLTs ranging down to the very small indeed (Hemyock), modelling anything smaller would be barely worthy of a real life BLT station in first place.

[Flying Pig]

4 minutes ago, BWsTrains said:

Perhaps Stationmaster has a view on why so many small BLTs had a dedicated shed if this were the case. Why were they needed given they were so common?

 

 

It has been discussed previously and as I recall the requirement at least in some cases was to have a loco at the terminus for the first up passenger of the day.  Goods would be worked out and back from a suitable marshalling yard, shunting at stations along the way to pick up and drop off traffic.

[Guest]

Hey guys thanks for all the replies. Definitely an interesting discussion, but I must admit I am building this layout just for fun rather than being very prototypical. I already have all the kits built so I’m just looking for roughly appropriate locations that won’t stick out like a sore thumb or be hard to operate. More or less I’ve already decided to go with the idea that was mentioned at the top of the thread, so case closed for me. Thanks again for all the replies!

[Steamport Southport]

49 minutes ago, BWsTrains said:

Perhaps Stationmaster has a view on why so many small BLTs had a dedicated shed if this were the case. Why were they needed given they were so common?

 

Moretonhampstead, Wallingford, Faringdon (?), Hemyock, Malmesbury, Tetbury, Cirencester........   the list goes on. GWR only as that's my interest, has OP given a location?

 

It did occur to me that shunting would have been a non-stardard routine depending on stock locations and requirements. Waiting on the inbound loco to do the job would have made keeping to a timetable difficult especially as the outgoing goods would often make a connection at the main line junction

 

These were typical BLTs ranging down to the very small indeed (Hemyock), modelling anything smaller would be barely worthy of a real life BLT station in first place.

 

Just the way certain railway companies worked.

 

Most GWR termini had an engine shed.

 

Most LMS didn't, but a handful did. On the KWVR for example the shed for the branch line was at Keighley. Any facilities at Oxenhope are preservation era.

 

 

Jason

[AY Mod]

On 08/08/2021 at 00:19, dankunja said:

so case closed for me.

 

Do not hide a topic whilst others are still discussing the content; it's really bad form. I've had to reinstate it twice now.

 

Do it again and access may be withdrawn.

[MR Chuffer]

On 08/08/2021 at 01:07, Steamport Southport said:

Most LMS didn't

But a fair number, ex-MR, did e.g. Wirksworth, Leicester West Bridge, Ripley, Barnoldswick, Tewkesbury, Southwell, Barnoldswick and Ingleton - an end on junction with the LNWR but functionally a terminus for much of its life. Perhaps that's a majority of MR branches?

[Nearholmer]

Two stations you might want to look at are:

 

- The Dyke, near Brighton, which was precisely like Ashleigh, except that the siding had no goods shed - goods were dealt with in the rain!

 

 

- Seaton, Devon, which will give you another very good location for the loco shed. It was on the spur off the run-round, at the buffer-stop end, and there was a cattle dock on the same spur, right outside the loco shed. This layout is heavily inspired by Seaton, although the builder has expanded the goods facilities a lot. The real Seaton, as rebuilt by the SR, had no separate goods shed, the goods ‘shed’ was integral with the station building, with the passenger bay platform being used to unload wagons (very unusual!).

 

You might find this thread useful too, although it collapsed under the weight of examples and diversions before we’d really covered the subject properly - it would have been better as a blog.

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Michael Hodgson]

On 08/08/2021 at 00:04, Flying Pig said:

 

It has been discussed previously and as I recall the requirement at least in some cases was to have a loco at the terminus for the first up passenger of the day.  Goods would be worked out and back from a suitable marshalling yard, shunting at stations along the way to pick up and drop off traffic.

Yes, an engine can be "stabled" in these one-horse towns, but the sheds would not have all the facilities of a bigger shed to whom they were just an outpost.  I think of it like putting your car in the garage overnight.  

 

They would need coal & water facilities, but I would not expect maintenance to be any more than dropping fire/lighting up and oiling round.  So perhaps once a week the branch engine would rostered to go to a proper shed for a boiler washout or any bigger jobs, and the engine rotated to another probably of the same class.

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Yes, an engine can be "stabled" in these one-horse towns, but the sheds would not have all the facilities of a bigger shed to whom they were just an outpost.  I think of it like putting your car in the garage overnight.  

 

They would need coal & water facilities, but I would not expect maintenance to be any more than dropping fire/lighting up and oiling round.  So perhaps once a week the branch engine would rostered to go to a proper shed for a boiler washout or any bigger jobs, and the engine rotated to another probably of the same class.

Yes - but it did to some extent depend on the quality of the local water supply and weekly washouts were more necessary in areas with hard or 'bad' water.   That apart the biggest tasks likely to be undertaken, apart from making up/relacing trimmings and oiling point corks, would have been changing a gauge glass - in other words really nothing beyond the basic maintenance skills of the local Driver.    A Fitter or Boilersmith might attend if needed from a nearby main shed but more likely anything requiring their attention (provided the engine was safe to move) would result in an unplanned engine changeover some time during the working day.

 

Depending on the work in many places the fire would  be cleaned and the engine would be kept in light steam overnight with a small fire going 'under' the firehole door - far quicker (and much less damaging) that raising steam from cold.