Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I've looked on the web and I can't find enough info for me to make up my mind on the practicality of this device. I suspect the design isn't mature enough yet, but the Government (which is never too bothered about details like that) has gone ahead with a photo opportunity.

Best to wait and see.

 

Yeah, if I were in charge of procuring chargers en-mass I'd go for something with standard Type 2 sockets. Then everything's guaranteed to work and I don't have to worry about people trying to ram the plugs where they don't fit and damaging things.

If this one goes into production I think it's going to end up looking a bit different.

 

[black and decker boy]

2 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

Yeah, if I were in charge of procuring chargers en-mass I'd go for something with standard Type 2 sockets. Then everything's guaranteed to work and I don't have to worry about people trying to ram the plugs where they don't fit and damaging things.

If this one goes into production I think it's going to end up looking a bit different.

 

Depends, ifs it’s design by committee (ie civil service) then they’ll have found the 1 car on the planet it fits and assume all others are the same (or that everyone should own that EV as it was their dream car)

 

Im thinking it won’t fit my Tesla as the cover sticks out. 
 

im also thinking this is going to be solely for 3KW, 7 KW and maybe 11KW points only as the 50kw to 150kw charging points tend to be a lot bigger to cope with cooling & high current / voltage gubbins whereas this resembles the ubiquitous PodPoint & Polar low speed chargers. 
 

whilst low speed chargers are useful, what we need rolling out are far more 50kw + public charging locations 

[Fenman]

3 hours ago, Titan said:

 

I don't get this,  30801 explained it would not fit, then posted a photo of a brand new car, clearly showing that the new design won't fit, which you even quoted in your own post, and yet you subsequently claim not to know, and would be surprised if it didn't?

I don’t think I can make a judgement from a couple of photos and without any dimensions. We all know camera angles can be tricky. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

Equally he may be right.

 

Hence me not wanting to comment. Or would you rather I spouted out a synthetic / outraged opinion based on no knowledge?! 

 

Paul

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

Im thinking it won’t fit my Tesla as the cover sticks out. 
 

im also thinking this is going to be solely for 3KW, 7 KW and maybe 11KW points only as the 50kw to 150kw charging points tend to be a lot bigger to cope with cooling & high current / voltage gubbins whereas this resembles the ubiquitous PodPoint & Polar low speed chargers. 
 

whilst low speed chargers are useful, what we need rolling out are far more 50kw + public charging locations 

 

I think it will. The Ioniq 5 also flaps up but looks like there's enough room.

 

They're intended to be (probably 7kW) on-street chargers .

 

Some design-speak here:

https://www.paconsulting.com/our-experience/office-for-zero-emission-vehicles-using-the-power-of-design-to-accelerate-the-adoption-of-zero-emission-road-transport/

 

[rocor]

Where the problem seems to lie.

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by rocor

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, rocor said:

Where the problem seems to lie.

 

Needs another bit on top saying "Too high"

 

This is a CCS plug (which goes in the same socket) It's bulky with a handle but see how careful they are that nothing protrudes from the top.

Every existing Type 2 plug fits in the same outline.

[melmerby]

There was an interesting item on BBC Midlands Today about using electric cars, or rather their batteries, as portable temporary electricity stores.

E.g. you could fully charge your car at work/home using e.g. solar power and then use it whilst at home to supplement your power needs when it's dark.

 

The guy demonstrating it had developed a two way charging station, where he could keep his car charged up by solar power from his array of panels on his building, then use some of the energy to power his home in the evening when it's dark.

 

He showed his smart meter which was showing 58watts from the grid, then switched on a 3kW kettle and it still read 58W as the power was coming from his car battery.

[Ian J.]

Watching the NFL games live on NFL Game Pass gives me a chance to see U.S. adverts. There's been one on there for the last couple of years touting the ability of the likes of Ford or RAM (I forget which right now) pickups being able to power a home from the onboard battery.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Ian J.

[Ron Ron Ron]

12 hours ago, melmerby said:

There was an interesting item on BBC Midlands Today about using electric cars, or rather their batteries, as portable temporary electricity stores.

E.g. you could fully charge your car at work/home using e.g. solar power and then use it whilst at home to supplement your power needs when it's dark......

 

Car to Home.

It's expected to become a mainstream thing.

Lots of companies working on it, followed by Home to Grid, which is more difficult to implement properly.

 

A half charged car battery will have much more than enough stored energy to power your whole house for hours.

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Wireless charging on trial...on a real street, with real cars.

With real world, useful power and not some useless, box ticking 7kW.

 

9It's obviously a "bolt-on" prototype at the moment, but production versions would be fully integrated into the cars.

 

 

 

 

[melmerby]

4 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Car to Home.

It's expected to become a mainstream thing.

Lots of companies working on it, followed by Home to Grid, which is more difficult to implement properly.

 

A half charged car battery will have much more than enough stored energy to power your whole house for hours.

 

 

.

It was somewhere in the Midlands and the chap's company were supposed to be "leading the field" in development.

His system seemed to work very well.

The charging unit didn't look much bigger than a standard home charger, but there obviously were some more electronics somehere.

 

The raison d'être was that if we change all our power requirements to electricity, we will need 4 times as much grid capacity which apparantly isn't going to happen.

So much more home generation and power transfer technology is the way to go.

[Ron Ron Ron]

7 minutes ago, melmerby said:

......The raison d'être was that if we change all our power requirements to electricity, we will need 4 times as much grid capacity which apparantly isn't going to happen.

So much more home generation and power transfer technology is the way to go.

 

It's not so much electricity generation, but getting more of it into the local distribution networks.

That's down to local district and even at street by street level.

The larger grid storage provision, that is being installed, can't deal with what happens behind the local substations and transformers, unless everything is massively upgraded.

Putting more local generation and storage into the immediate local networks, is seen as a sensible and more viable and sustainable path.

 

Fully Charged and other online platforms have been talking about this and the various developments, for quite some time.

Car to Home is seen as an alternative to an expensive domestic Powerwall systems, although you could still have one of those and have the best of both worlds.

 

 

.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Wireless charging on trial...on a real street, with real cars.

With real world, useful power and not some useless, box ticking 7kW.

 

Nothing wrong with 7kW that's where the overwhelming majority of charging is coming from. You just can't put that many rapids in. Still it's impressive he says losses across the charging pad are negligible.

You could probably fix ICEing of these by starting a rumour that they fry the engine of fossil cars...

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Car to Home is seen as an alternative to an expensive domestic Powerwall systems, although you could still have one of those and have the best of both worlds.

.

 

I did look at OVO/Indra's vehicle to grid pilot but it would have voided the battery warranty on the 24kWh Leaf

[Grovenor]

Hmm, 85KHz charging, could get noisy when the fixing bolts get a bit loose.

 

I can't see this concept of charging the car during the day then running the house on the car battery at night, seems that just when you want to use the car the battery will be depleted, and having a car you can't use seems an expensive way to get a stationary battery.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Grovenor said:

Hmm, 85KHz charging, could get noisy when the fixing bolts get a bit loose.

 

Are you a bat?

[idd15]

2 hours ago, Grovenor said:

Hmm, 85KHz charging, could get noisy when the fixing bolts get a bit loose.

 

I can't see this concept of charging the car during the day then running the house on the car battery at night, seems that just when you want to use the car the battery will be depleted, and having a car you can't use seems an expensive way to get a stationary battery.

You schedule when the car drive battery is to be used for V2G and V2H and how much charge  you want in the car next day and the charger/inverter does the rest. It’s entirely under your control. The positive side is you get paid for exporting to the grid. Lot of cars spend a lot of time just sitting on people drives just depreciating…

 

idd

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, Grovenor said:

......I can't see this concept of charging the car during the day then running the house on the car battery at night, seems that just when you want to use the car the battery will be depleted, and having a car you can't use seems an expensive way to get a stationary battery.

 

The average car is stationary and not being used, between 90% and 95% of the time.

 

One example.

If your car is not being used and is parked at home during the day, it can be charged (or topped up) via Solar.

Then, during the late afternoon and evening, when electricity is in most demand and expensive, the energy in the car battery can be used to power, or supplement the power to the home.

If you intend to use the car the following day, set to recharge overnight on cheap electricity.

 

Another example.

The car returns home at the end of the working day.

Surplus energy left in the vehicle battery, can be used to power the home, instead of using expensive peak electricity, during the evening.

Recharge the car overnight on cheap electricity, ready for use the next day.

 

At the present time, you can add battery "Powerwall" storage to a Solar PV system, to store electricity generated during the daytime, for use during the evening and night time.

These storage systems are expensive.

For some situations, EV car batteries could be used instead.

You already own/lease the EV and it's sitting there doing nothing otherwise, when it could be put to good use saving on purchasing electricity from the grid at peak times.

The EV battery storage is a no cost extra, compared to a Powerwall system costing £££ thousands.

 

This solution won't suit every situation and home owner, but with the average daily usage of private motor vehicles, recharging will only be necessary once, twice or maybe three times a week.

Plenty of cars will be sat at home at the end of the day, with spare energy in their batteries.

High mileage drivers, or any driver returning home with a low charge level, won't have that surplus energy to use in the home.

 

 

 

.

[AndyID]

6 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

The average car is stationary and not being used, between 90% and 95% of the time.

 

One example.

If your car is not being used and is parked at home during the day, it can be charged (or topped up) via Solar.

Then, during the late afternoon and evening, when electricity is in most demand and expensive, the energy in the car battery can be used to power, or supplement the power to the home.

If you intend to use the car the following day, set to recharge overnight on cheap electricity.

 

Another example.

The car returns home at the end of the working day.

Surplus energy left in the vehicle battery, can be used to power the home, instead of using expensive peak electricity, during the evening.

Recharge the car overnight on cheap electricity, ready for use the next day.

 

At the present time, you can add battery "Powerwall" storage to a Solar PV system, to store electricity generated during the daytime, for use during the evening and night time.

These storage systems are expensive.

For some situations, EV car batteries could be used instead.

You already own/lease the EV and it's sitting there doing nothing otherwise, when it could be put to good use saving on purchasing electricity from the grid at peak times.

The EV battery storage is a no cost extra, compared to a Powerwall system costing £££ thousands.

 

This solution won't suit every situation and home owner, but with the average daily usage of private motor vehicles, recharging will only be necessary once, twice or maybe three times a week.

Plenty of cars will be sat at home at the end of the day, with spare energy in their batteries.

High mileage drivers, or any driver returning home with a low charge level, won't have that surplus energy to use in the home.

 

 

 

.

 

Nice, but if enough people do that there won't be any cheap "off-peak" electricity. Not to say it's a bad idea but it's best not to oversell it.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

Nice, but if enough people do that there won't be any cheap "off-peak" electricity. Not to say it's a bad idea but it's best not to oversell it.

 

Yes there will because they still need to keep demand away from traditional peaks. 

[AndyID]

2 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

Yes there will because they still need to keep demand away from traditional peaks. 

 

LOL

 

If the model changes there will be no "traditional". Yes, I know it's a good idea but we cannot assume consumers will just carry on as usual. It's surprising just how quickly they are willing to accept change. The conventional retail model has been destroyed in the last few years.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, AndyID said:

If the model changes there will be no "traditional". Yes, I know it's a good idea but we cannot assume consumers will just carry on as usual.

 

I think it's safe to say consumers will still be cooking their teas etc at around six so that demand isn't going away. Suppliers would quite like you not to be charging your car at the same time. 

[AndyID]

13 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

I think it's safe to say consumers will still be cooking their teas etc at around six so that demand isn't going away. Suppliers would quite like you not to be charging your car at the same time. 

 

I think it's even safer to say that in your model the consumers will also be the suppliers. If enough people use the energy stored in their car batteries to feed the grid there won't be any peak demands. Not to say that's a bad thing but you can't use both arguments to defeat each other, unless you happen to be a politician.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

I think it's even safer to say that in your model the consumers will also be the suppliers. If enough people use the energy stored in their car batteries to feed the grid there won't be any peak demands. Not to say that's a bad thing but you can't use both arguments to defeat each other, unless you happen to be a politician.

 

They aren't suppliers they are just shifting demand. Some demand can be moved and some can't. 

[AndyID]

15 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

They aren't suppliers they are just shifting demand. Some demand can be moved and some can't. 

 

If they are supplying energy they are suppliers and they should be treated as such. To suggest anything else is just a lot of nonsense. The source of the energy has nothing to do with it.

 

It's simple economics . I buy something at one price and sell it later at another price. That's how the whole thing works.