Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

Your car and your wall charger will both have apps to let you decide just what pct you want to charge the car tonight. 

 

Plus generally one or the other will allow you to set off-peak times so you can just plug it in and forget about it.

[black and decker boy]

Be careful with Intelligent Octopus.

 

you need to either have a car or charger compatible with their systems.

 

you can check on their website:

https://octopus.energy/intelligent-octopus-go/eligibility/#/
 

first glance. VW is OK, Skoda is not.

 

if you don’t have a compatible device, you’ll end up on Octopus Go which is 9p/kwh for 4hours overnight.

 

 

dont forget to access any of Octopus’s beta tariffs such as Intelligent and Go, you must have a smart meter.

Edited January 8 by black and decker boy
Extra thought

[black and decker boy]

9 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

Plus generally one or the other will allow you to set off-peak times so you can just plug it in and forget about it.

The Intelligent Octopus App works slightly differently.

 

you disable schedules in both car & chargers. You plug in and tell the Octopus App how much charge you want and set a departure time.

 

Octopus then works out the best times to charge and it tells your car / charger when to send volts & amps. It can / will charge outside of the off peak window to suit what excess energy they have / low wholesale prices. No matter what time the app allows your car to charge, it is always at 7.5p/kwh.

 

i regularly see my car being charged up at 9pm / 10pm by their system.

[Hobby]

Whatever happened to standardisation, eh!

 

Current update is that I've got to take Jennie along to the VW dealership to see if she can get in an ID4, if she can then it's test drive time, the ID4 and a Suzuki Swace which other users recon is good for 60mpg+ so I'd only be looking at a difference of £100/150 per year difference in fuel costs but with current ic car convenience... Decisions, decisions!

[Metr0Land]

12 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

The Intelligent Octopus App works slightly differently.

 

you disable schedules in both car & chargers. You plug in and tell the Octopus App how much charge you want and set a departure time.

 

Octopus then works out the best times to charge and it tells your car / charger when to send volts & amps. It can / will charge outside of the off peak window to suit what excess energy they have / low wholesale prices. No matter what time the app allows your car to charge, it is always at 7.5p/kwh.

 

i regularly see my car being charged up at 9pm / 10pm by their system.

 

Actually it's a lot more complicated if you have a storage unit (Hobby hasn't so can look away now).

 

Both myself and a friend have been caught out by the sudden daytime bursts of 7.5p - in both cases car apps were turned off and zappi chargers set up for night-time use 11:30-5:30 (and indeed have had 'extras' just before 11:30 and after 05:30).

 

Now here's the difficulty, Intelligent Octopus is telling the Intelligent Charger to fill its boots in these daytime extras, but the Intelligent Charger using it's own intelligence thinks it has to drain the Tesla Powerwall first and only then use mains electricity....  I lost 3kWh this way and my friend lost 6kWh this way meaning in both cases we were nervously watching our Teslas almost drain dry before bed-time and switching to mains electric at 30p

 

Because Dec was so dire in terms of sunlight there was no opportnity during the day to backfill the storage unit with solar.  We decided the way to combat it was to leave car unplugged during the day if it wasn't full.  We've had no events since, so don't know if by doing this Octopus will backfill the Tesla storage or the Tesla storage won't recognise the daytime extras as they're set up for night-time tariff periods the same as the chargers.  Since Sunday we've had a lot more solar though that seems to be decreasing day by day, but for both of us we've decided the daytme extras are better avoided as we'll be getting sufficient 7.5p electricity the next night and don't want to risk the daytime extras pushing us into needing full price electric before we reach the next night.

 

Oh what a tangled web we weave...... 

 

Edit: forgot to add, we've both told the Octopus app we want the car by 5:30am in case it's looking 12 hours ahead and thinks it can charge us at say 9am which would replicate the problem above.

Edited January 9 by Metr0Land

[black and decker boy]

On my system, I can tell it when to charge the battery. It’s set to 0130-0530 only. I can also set the discharge period which is the opposite, 0530-2330.

 

it doesn’t then affect the car.

 

My car is only ever plugged in on an evening so not an issue with storage battery % and once IO is triggered, all electric use is at the cheaper rate.

 

In the last 3 months of 2023, our electric figures are:

off peak import: 990kwh (of which 422 for the car)

peak import: 129kwh

export: 162kwh

[Metr0Land]

OK, I'm not exporting anything yet.  Only been on Octopus Go since 09Sep, Tesla Powerwall switched on 18Oct, and Intelligent Go since 23Dec - so still building up my understanding.  As Hobby's noticed there's a lot to get your head around!

 

Bill for Nov/early Dec which was all on Octopus Go (which was the only month I have so far where nothing changed):

Total £55

of which standing charge £15 (grrrr)

Car ~£18

House ~£22

 

So the next full month on Intelligent Go (assumes like for like home and car usage and no change in solar) would be £15/standing, Car/£15, House/£19, total £49)

 

Edited January 9 by Metr0Land

[Hobby]

6 hours ago, Hobby said:

Current update is that I've got to take Jennie along to the VW dealership to see if she can get in an ID4,

 

She managed it, though it was a bit of a climb and the seat set at it's lowest setting, I'm not completely convinced. Why oh why do they have to push these SUV things over conventional cars.... Test drives to arrange now, waiting for phone calls from VW and Suzuki dealerships who seem reluctant to talk to me... Must have been something I said!

[Suzie]

It is getting so hard to work out what is best. I used to have Economy 7 to heat my greenhouse, but the saving in cheap rate electricity was fully eaten up by the extra standing charge which made it a complete waste of time - most of the heating was done in the evening rather than the early hours.

 

Now I have an electric car I suspect that the small amount of electricity used for charging the car will not justify going over to a similar tariff, even though a 4-hour window is adequate for a full charge at 7kW. Having a Leaf with a small battery often requires a mid-day top up for a couple of hours at day rate anyway. Current annual night usage appears to be about 1100kWh - is the extra standing charge more than £150 per year?

 

Things might change soon though if I move house and get a better car, the new place has acres of suitable roof so will take a lot of panels, and will probably justify getting 3-phase so the new (100kWh) car will be 75% charged in the 4-hour window. Might still be worth charging the car at night though and exporting from solar and battery storage at peak times at ~100A (3x32A). It is well complicated. I am not convinced that any supplier is likely to be on top of all the pros and cons...

[Hobby]

Final update. I test drove a Toyota Corolla, VW ID4 and Suzuki Swace. To be fair to the ID4 whilst it looked big from the outside it seemed smaller when driving it! The Toyota was the latest version (5th gen), though the hatch rather than the estate, not that made much difference. The Swace was a '21 model so previous generation, though the dealer didn't tell me that, I just noticed the difference in performance compared with the Toyota!

 

The ID4 was nice and quiet, roomy and as I said didn't seem as big to drive as it looks, but I just don't feel we are quite ready for a full EV just yet so I've told the dealer we'll be back for another look in three years when we change next time.

 

The Swace and Corolla are technically the same car, just different equipment and slightly different advance payments. Driving the previous generation hybrid on the Swace and the latest on the Corolla made me realise just much of an improvement there is between the 4th and 5th generation Toyota hybrid powertrains. I was able to keep in EV mode for a surprising amount of time in the Corolla, even at speed (50mph), something I couldn't in the older Swace.

 

So the decision was purely down to which spec I preferred and the Corolla won out mainly because it had satnav, something not included in the Swace for some unknown reason. I know I could use my smartphone but I have a very basic contract and would be using data I'd have to pay for. As I said it seemed strange these days for it not to have satnav unless they feel it's the "new way"!

 

So a Toyota Corolla Touring Sports (estate to you and me!) in red with delivery when my current Motability contract runs out in April.

 

Thanks again for all your help!

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Hobby said:

So the decision was purely down to which spec I preferred and the Corolla won out mainly because it had satnav, something not included in the Swace for some unknown reason.

 

In-car satnav struggles compared to what you get on a phone for nowt.

The one in the Leaf was awful and they wanted £170 to update the maps on it. Plus it came on an SD card which they wanted five quid more to post.

The one in the Mii was part of the SEAT phone app anyway.

The one in the Jeep is less awful than Nissan's but the 'update your map' website is utter garbage and was broken for a fortnight. To find out what the map costs I need to stick an SD card in the car and have the satnav specially format it, and then stick it in my computer and open some TomTom app. I can't actually be bothered.

 

Mostly manufacturers just add Apple CarPlay and Android Auto and let the phone do it.

[Hobby]

Yep, and then you have to pay for it! Just a cost cutting exercise. The Skoda and VW ones have been fine and the one in the Toyota seemed on a par with them based on the one in the Yaris whilst we were on holiday last May. I'll just stick with the less hassle in car version, thanks!

Edited January 16 by Hobby

[AndrueC]

33 minutes ago, Hobby said:

Yep, and then you have to pay for it! Just a cost cutting exercise. The Skoda and VW ones have been fine and the one in the Toyota seemed on a par with them based on the one in the Yaris whilst we were on holiday last May. I'll just stick with the less hassle in car version, thanks!

I have a Toyota (2019 Corolla) and whilst the in-car satnav is okay it looks a bit cartoony. The maps are not hugely accurate either and in fact it uses Here Maps and encourages users to edit them. A road near me had an incorrect speed limit and I tried twice to change it. On the first occasion someone/thing changed it back (their admin team couldn't tell me who or what). The second attempt appeared to stick but failed to make it into the next six monthly refresh from Toyota despite the change being at least four months before the publication date. I've no idea if it's finally made it in as my free period stopped after that update.

 

We also had to go through Toyota's appalling eStore in order to get map updates. They were free for the first three years (you still got an invoice for £0 emailed to you, lol) but quite expensive after that.

 

So these days I use Google maps via Android Auto. The only reason I got satnav on this car was because of other things I wanted in that trim. When I buy my next car I will happily avoid satnav if I can find a trim that offers me everything else I want without it.

[Ian Morgan]

The 2018 Ioniq needed a download (which took several attempts) and I bought a new SD card to put it on, so I still had the original supplied with car in case of problems.

 

The VW Touran also needed a download using their own downloaded app on my PC. However, they have a special code embedded on their SD card, so the update had to be written to the SD card supplied with the vehicle. Thankfully it worked OK, otherwise it would have been an expensive replacement from VW.

 

In car Sat Navs seem to get updated only every three or four years, so I think using the smartphone with Apple Carplay or Android Auto will be the future, unless the car manufacturers over-the-air updates can keep the maps more up to date.

 

I really must start using Android Auto on my Ioniq 5, but it requires the smartphone to be connected to the car by wire instead of wirelessly, which could be a pain.

 

[Hobby]

Just to add to the discussion on satnav it seems that the system in the Corolla is linked to the hybrid system itself and can tell it when it's best to charge the battery, etc (regen braking and so on) so perhaps there's more to it than first meets the eye. I'll know more in April when I get it.

[AndrueC]

3 hours ago, Hobby said:

Just to add to the discussion on satnav it seems that the system in the Corolla is linked to the hybrid system itself and can tell it when it's best to charge the battery, etc (regen braking and so on) so perhaps there's more to it than first meets the eye. I'll know more in April when I get it.

I wasn't aware of that (maybe it's a new feature) but it is interesting that the mobile app can criticise you for things based on what you did (eg; mine forever berates me for accelerating away from roundabouts) so perhaps there's something in that. Meh. I'm currently getting over 55mpg from my 1.8 (measured at the pump) even though it's Winter so yar boo sucks to the app 😁

[Hobby]

Part of the 2023 fifth generation update I believe. I'll know more when I get it. I do wonder about all these ways to improve things like economy getting in the way of actually driving the car. Watching to see if the EV light us on fir instance.

[AndrueC]

51 minutes ago, Hobby said:

Part of the 2023 fifth generation update I believe. I'll know more when I get it. I do wonder about all these ways to improve things like economy getting in the way of actually driving the car. Watching to see if the EV light us on fir instance.

It's worth noting that you don't really want the EV light on as much as possible. It's a nice trick to be able to drive short distances on electric but since the battery charge comes from burning fuel in the first place and there are losses involved it's not necessarily the best way to use the battery.

 

Really the electrical system should be thought of as 'playing second fiddle' to the ICE. It's there to help the ICE operate more efficiently rather than as a primary source of motive power.

 

I encourage the car into EV mode (by lifting off then partially reapplying the accelerator) only if I know there is a light load or deceleration situation coming up - eg;a downhill stretch or traffic queue ahead. The rest of the time I let the ECU decide how best to use the electrical system.

 

In summer I typically get high 60s mpg.

Edited January 17 by AndrueC

[Hobby]

I think they've changed quite a lot since your 2019 model. I'll let you know when I get it.

[Metr0Land]

 

[APOLLO]

 

Brit15

[Metr0Land]

I'd click the funny icon but it's becoming beyond parody!

[idd15]

One of our small suppliers had both of his two diesel vans out of action this morning due to the cold. One was a collapsed 12v battery and the other was a “frozen” gearbox. Had to run the engine for half an hour to defrost it!

 

Driver was not happy either as he was well behind.

idd

 

 

 

[black and decker boy]

Whilst unfortunate, discussion seems to around many users having flown into the nearby airport and having left cars with low charge levels, needing to top up. Some chargers out of use. Cold batteries needing to precondition which slows charge rates. A lot of transport comps it drivers also in the queue - Lyft / uber etc.

 

plenty of counter evidence from Scandinavia, Alps etc that EVs can and do cope with low temps. Plenty of evidence too of ICE cars not coping with low temps.
 

perhaps not progress but not sure it’s a step backward either.

[Metr0Land]

2 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

plenty of counter evidence from Scandinavia, Alps etc that EVs can and do cope with low temps. Plenty of evidence too of ICE cars not coping with low temps.
 

 

On the actual chat on YT about that clip others made the same remark eg 'Finland very cold - no trouble there' only to be challenged by others quickly retorting that in fact they drive a lot of hybrids rather than BEV's so don't get caught cold.