More Signals at Hessle Haven & Scarborough

[mikemeg]

It Does Mike

 

While New Street's searchlight signals are (from a signalling point of view) pretty interesting theres something about a model signal worked by wires and levers that a colour light just doesnt have.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

It was a very different railway in 1950 Jim and before even my time. One would think, given the extent of manual point and signal operation, that it would have been a much less reliable railway, yet that's probably not true for it was a technically more simple and a very well maintained railway.

 

For me it was a much more visually interesting railway and no more so than with these enormous structures with their profusion of wooden dolls and arms, their wires and levers, there just to control the trains.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[micklner]

Now back to the Hessle Haven lower quadrant signal bridge to complete it; this while various bits and pieces are setting or ordered for the larger Scarborough bridge.

 

I'm very concious that with the number of these things which I have covered on here, there is a danger of the threads becoming repetitive. However I don't think I've covered this before, the lamp brackets on lower quadrant slotted post signals. I remember MickLNER, when he covered the building of MSE kits for slotted post NER signals, pointing out that the lamp bracket assembly, on the MSE etch, doesn't leave very much room for the operating rod to the arm.

 

As I have used small pieces of 1/32" tube to attach the operating rod to the arm and as this has exacerbated the problem with the lamp bracket etch by virtue of adding to the width of the operating rod assembly, then I decided to abandon using the etched bracket and fabricate new lamp brackets giving more clearance. The bearing portion of the etch has been used and very carefully superglued to the doll, taking care not to glue up the arm bearing.

 

The photograph probably shows this far better than I can explain it. A second part is added to the back of the doll, in line with the front support and the lamp will then fix to these two brackets.

 

Interesting to muse, given the number of requests for advice on signal placement on here, that making models of real signals for real places does at least guarantee prototypical accuracy.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Mike

Can you post some close ups of your brackets . They will be useful if and when I make some more for my layout

 

cheers

 

Mick

[mikemeg]

Mike

 

Can you post some close ups of your brackets . They will be useful if and when I make some more for my layout

 

cheers

 

Mick

 

OK Mick, I'll do my best though some of this is very tiny so doesn't photograph too well.

 

Firstly, let's re-state the problem(s) :-

 

- The MSE NER lamp bracket etch, when folded and fitted to the slotted post with the integral arm bearing, as supplied, does not provide sufficient space between the bracket and the post to allow the operating lever and arm lug to move freely.

 

Solution - increase this distance by separating the bracket from the arm bearing portion of the etch. If one were using MSE slotted posts, then this would be all that would be necessary.

 

- On my signals, as I have made the slotted posts from two layers of .030" (0.75 mm) plasticard with a 1.0 mm slot, then the total post depth is 2.5 mm. The MSE NER lamp bracket etch, when folded, spans around 2.1 - 2.3 mm depth, so will not wrap around my posts. Clearly my problem, not any fault of the MSE etch.

 

Solution - substitute new bracket wrappings to allow the etched bracket to 'sit inside' the new brackets.

 

Nonetheless the MSE NER lamp bracket etch does provide a very stable anchor for these quite chunky NER white metal signal lamp castings, so how to modify it to use it?

 

First I cut off the arm bearing portion of the lamp bracket etch (the rectangular section on the left hand side of photo 1), which I then use, in isolation, later. Then the etch is folded as per the instructions, after which a spacing piece of 1.25 mm (.050") thickness and a tight fit between the two folded sides of the etch, is inserted between the two sides of the folded etch.

 

Using a pair of fine tweezers, the sides of the folded etch are clamped against the plasticard insert and filed back to the thickness of the insert - 1.25 mm - which is then removed. Now the lamp bracket assembly will give a gap of 1.25 mm for the operating rod and arm lug to operate. This gap can be modified by using different thickness inserts for the filing back operation i.e. 1.0 mm (.040").

 

The modified lamp bracket can then be glued inside two bracket pieces which are themselves glued to the slotted post.

 

Hopefully the short photo sequence explains this. Incidentally, the different text colours are merely me playing around with some of the facilites on here. As a comment could I say that some posters (no names, no pack drill and no reflection on any on this thread) could also make use of some of these features to improve the legibility of their postings!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Just by way of providing some detail, I have cropped one of the Scarborough photographs to highlight the postioning of a NER signal lamp and the spectacle plate on an ex-NER lower quadrant main line signal arm - the leftmost doll. This shows how much of the lamp protruded above the spectacle plate. It also shows the angling of the spectacle plate against the signal arm - around 15 - 20 degrees to the horizontal.

 

The spectacle plate on the middle doll appears to be angled even less. The photo also shows how far the NER lamps were positioned from the doll.

 

Note how the spectacle plate on the home signal on the rightmost doll on this photo, appears to have slipped but has probably been repositioned. The lamp (LNER standard) appears to have been fitted much lower and isn't visible above the spectacle plate. The distant on the rightmost doll is also fitted with a standard LNER signal lamp, but which is visible.

 

I guess the lesson, from this photograph, is that the local S&T guys just adjusted things to fit. I've done the same - prototypical excuse!!!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Just to complete this 'mini saga' of the lamp brackets and lamps, the brackets have now both been fitted to the doll and the lamps glued to the brackets. The gap between the lamp and the slotted doll is now much more prototypical and, more importantly, does not interfere with the operation of the actuating rod. The spectacle plate can then be positioned over the lamp.

 

One or two folks, on other threads in this section, have discussed the use of LED and fibre optic lighting of model semaphore signal lamps. I'm now going to paint the lamp lens with white paint (luminous white paint would be ideal but I'm not sure if that is still available) to try and produce that very subdued light which was present on these lamps.

 

The tiny piece of wire, protruding from the doll over the operating rods below the distant, is a loop of .2 mm wire to prevent the operating rods from buckling during operation. This as I have used .3 mm wire for these rods, which does have a propensity to buckle in the plane pendicular to the arms.

 

I should add that I normally file a small flat on the side of the lamp to be attached to the bracket, just to provide a larger surface for adhesion of the glue.

 

These things were a far cry from the colour lights of today but what character they had!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

And finally I have an ex-NER slotted post doll with lower quadrant arms which looks, at least in part, like the prototype and the original. As I have several dozen of these slotted post dolls and arms to make for the Scarborough signal bridges, then it is important that I get them right and that I use a set of techniques which are consistent and replicable.

 

I did paint the spectacle lens with white paint but I also gloss varnished both sides of the spectacle glasses as the means of 'glueing' the glasses into the spectacle plates (should really only have done one side) which does reduce their transparency by quite an amount.

 

These photographs have resolved at something around 7 mm / ft so these images are considerably larger than the model.

 

So this can now go into the lattice, along with its shorter companion.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

[Jon Fitness]

Stunning work as always Mike. Those NER slotted post signals are so satisfying visually as well. Cant wait to see the finished bridge.

 

Jon F.

 

 

[mikemeg]

Stunning work as always Mike. Those NER slotted post signals are so satisfying visually as well. Cant wait to see the finished bridge.

 

Jon F.

 

Thanks for that, Jon. Yes the NER slotted post signals were lovely things; pure Victorian in their design origins, a piece of functional equipment, yet somehow looking just right. It's as if they 'gracefully nodded their assent' to the passing of a train.

 

I'm hoping to have the Hessle Haven signal bridge, for which this doll is destined, finished in a couple of weeks, with the Scarborough signal bridge (photo below) three or four weeks after that.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[micklner]

Thanks for the pictures

 

 

Mick

[mikemeg]

Thanks for the pictures

 

 

Mick

 

You're welcome.

[mikemeg]

So I'm now back, with the Hessle Haven signal bridge, to where I was a few weeks ago, having remade both dolls and both sets of balance levers. The operating mechanisms and arms now move much more easily and the drillings are much closer to the doll. Also the smaller doll, which wasn't quite straight first time around, is now straight. There are quite a few additional tweaks and refinements incorporated as this has proceeded, so no time has been wasted. And those new tweaks and refinements will be incorporated in all of the Scarborough signal bridges, in build and to be built.

 

I took the photo in quite poor light but it has turned out quite 'moody'.

 

So now on to finishing this model.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[the penguin of doom]

Looking good Mike.....

[mikemeg]

Looking good Mike.....

 

Thanks Sean. I guess these things, like all things railway, had an 'essence', a 'spirit' which was their essential character and to make a good model then that 'essence' or 'spirit' must somehow be captured. It's easy to dismiss 'essence' or 'spirit' as some indefinable, ephemeral thing and therefore very difficult or almost impossible to identify.

 

Thus if a model does manage to capture it, and if it was so indefinable, then it would be more by luck than by good management.

 

I don't believe that and there are enough wonderful modellers and models on this site to support my supposition that what those folks do is centre on what the 'essence' of the prototype was and how it can be reproduced in miniature.

 

Perhaps I'll write the book - Modelling the Spirit or, perhaps, Modelling, Capturing the Spirit of the Prototype.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

While I complete the Hessle Haven signal bridge, I'm trying to keep the Scarborough signal bridge 'ticking over'. Doing projects in parallel, I find that I can't leave any one for too long, lest it gets consigned to the 'I'll finish that one day' cupboard and that can mean never!

 

So the first six of the eleven dolls on the Scarborough bridge are now at the same level of completion and can now be detailed, starting from the left. None of these dolls are yet fixed - it's tiny lumps of blu-tack still.

 

At least this thing has stopped looking like a toy!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

With Christmas almost upon us can I take this opportunity to wish a very Merry Christmas and happy and prosperous New Year to all those who have read and contributed to this and my other threads.

 

In these dark, short and cold days of winter can I post something as a reminder of those sunnier, longer and warmer days to come. This is something which I have laid off from for some months but have now returned to complete it.

 

The picture is set in the early 1950's on the highest of high summer days when the world was a somewhat slower and perhaps more serene place. Still some to do to finish this but, hopefully, you'll get the idea.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Steve Hewitt]

The picture is set in the early 1950's on the highest of high summer days when the world was a somewhat slower and perhaps more serene place.

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Penzance, looking across St Michael's Mount, Mounts Bay, towards Marazion.

It still looks very much the same!

 

All the best everyone,

Steve.

[modelmaker87]

With Christmas almost upon us can I take this opportunity to wish a very Merry Christmas and happy and prosperous New Year to all those who have read and contributed to this and my other threads.

 

The picture is set in the early 1950's on the highest of high summer days when the world was a somewhat slower and perhaps more serene place. Still some to do to finish this but, hopefully, you'll get the idea.

 

Cheers, Mike

 

Mike,

 

Gorgeous as always. Merry Christmas and a healthy 2011.

 

Cheers, Tony

[Gravy Train]

quality modelling there Mike look forward to the new year and more photos.

cheers

Peter

[mikemeg]

In an earlier thread I covered the building of a cantilevered gantry ex NER but with LNER standard dolls and arms. For some reason, one of the dolls on this model went seriously out of true - this is the only time this has happened - and so the model had to be re-worked. Motivation to finish a model can be hard enough; motivation to re-do a proportion of a model is even harder, but anyway I also finished off the ladder and ladder bracing struts.

 

Anyway the re-working is all done and the model painted. So this was more or less how the down gantry at Hessle Haven looked up until around 1963 when it was replaced.

 

Given the viewing angle of this photo, there is quite a lot of parallax on it, which does give the perception of the dolls tapering towards each other. They are parallel, straight and vertical, honest.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

After the Christmas and New Year festivities and taking a week out of the schedule to re-do and complete an earlier model (photo above), it's time to finish the two current projects. Motivation levels are still very high (there's an interesting thread on the Modelling musings & miscellany section about motivation) so time now to add the final touches to the Hessle Haven bridge and continue with the Scarborough bridge.

 

A new process for me on these things, is the use of a primer prior to painting, which has been applied to the foreground bridge in the photo below. I need a primer which is an aerosol but which will not damage or distort plasticard. I'm sure there is more than one which matches this requirement but the one I used, and which seems to give excellent results, is plasti-kote projekt paint (and yes it is spelt with a 'k') primer super. Usual disclaimer - no connection with this company - just very satisfied with the results.

 

So now the final assembly of the smaller Hessle Haven bridge can be done, while the next five dolls for the Scarborough bridge are completed and all are detailed.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

The lower quadrant arms on the Hessle Haven signal bridge have proved quite problematical, though I think the problems have now been solved and the arms and their operating mechanisms seem to work well.

 

Having solved the problems on the full size arms with reasonably tall dolls, now time to tackle those shorter dolls with smaller arms on the Scarborough bridge. So, in at the deep end with the smallest doll on the Scarborough signal bridge. The photo below shows this doll mid way through the detailing phase, with the balance lever and operating rod fitted and working. The finial, atop this doll, is 15 mm high; the operating rod is .3 mm wire, which gives some idea of the size of this doll and its arm. Now another seven of these small dolls and arms to do, though they are all larger than this one.

 

As on the larger dolls with full size arms, the travel of the arm and its horizontal danger position are governed by the stops on the lever casting, visible above and below the balance lever; this as per the NER prototype. This avoids having to fit arm stops to achieve that same governing of the travel.

 

The photo is approximately two and a half times the size of the model.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

After the various interruptions to the building of this model, the Scarborough signal bridge is now progressing with the making of all eight of the downside dolls. The three upside dolls are now also being made. Each of the eleven dolls is being detailed with the making and fitting of balance lever castings, levers and operating rods or wires as well as the spectacle plates and glasses on the lower quadrant arms.

 

Once all of the dolls are made, then the diagonal bracing under the lattice girders can be built and fitted and the lattice structure primed, ready for later painting.

 

None of these dolls is yet fixed; just blobs of blu-tac holding them up.

 

Sobering thought is that there will be more arms and dolls on this model than many folk have on their entire layout, and this is one of eight similarly equipped signal models for Scarborough. The old NER didn't leave much to chance in their signalling!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Guest jim s-w]

Hi Mike

 

Is that it? What I mean is, is that all of the arms you need or are there more? How are you going to make it work? My Buddy has used Merg controllers and mini servos on Moor street, Once he uprated the capacitors they have had no problems to report.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[mikemeg]

Hi Mike

 

Is that it? What I mean is, is that all of the arms you need or are there more? How are you going to make it work? My Buddy has used Merg controllers and mini servos on Moor street, Once he uprated the capacitors they have had no problems to report.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

There are three more dolls and four more arms yet to go on, Jim. Nothing is yet fixed, on this photo, all of the dolls are simply held in with blu-tac until the lower diagonal bracing is completed.

 

How am I going to make it work? Don't know, yet; I would love to use memory wire but I'm not sure about the reliability of this stuff across a temperature spectrum of, say, 10 C to 30 C. I think a chat with your Moor Street buddy might be helpful - PM me with details if you would.

 

There's an even larger one than this, to do. That one will have twelve dolls, fifteen arms and a span of over one hundred feet. I'll be a jabbering wreck (wha d'ya mean will?) after all of this repetition.

 

Many thanks and cheers

 

Mike

[modelmaker87]

I'll be a jabbering wreck (wha d'ya mean will?) after all of this repetition.

 

Mike

 

Even if Jim didn't know this, I did already... :D

 

Tony