More Signals at Hessle Haven & Scarborough

[mikemeg]

This is terrific stuff!

 

Many thanks, we do our best to inspire and interest the readers but it's still very gratifying when comments like yours are posted, even if they are done with a measure of reticence - joking Herr Pferd(e?)braun.

 

Again, many thanks.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Having got to here, with the first of these slotted post, lower quadrant dolls largely complete, it's now time to ask the question - Is this good enough? The answer is quite unequivocally 'No'. So what are the problems on this doll which can be avoided on further similar models. This is a formal process which we would use in the Computer Industry, especially when we lost a bid for a Contract; we never analysed any bids we won, so hence we only learned from the failures, never from the successes.

 

So what's wrong on this doll?

 

The arms need to be reduced to their scale width prior to painting - easy enough to fix.

 

The small piece of 1/32" tube pivotted on the arm should be 3mm not 4mm long. At 4mm this is too obtrusive; 3 mm and it is hidden by the spectacle glasses.

 

The doll itself needs to be slightly thinner at the top; three layers of .030" plasticard is too much, so the outer layers need to be reduced to around .025". This will give an overall thickness of .080" or 2mm which is correct, still leaving a slot of .030" for the arm to travel in.

 

The spindle on the balance levers, which is .4 mm diameter on this, is too thin with the result that the balance lever assemblies wobble around and are not stable enough. Using a .6 mm diameter spindle with the levers drilled to an interference fit of .6 mm makes them much tighter on the spindle and stops the wobbling.

 

The balance weights themselves just don't look right. This is because there is no augmentation of the thickness on these things, they are only a single etch thick. So solder or stick a .010" disk to both sides to bulk up the balance weights.

 

The brackets to hold the NER lamps need to be re-worked; they don't work as is.

 

What has so far worked :-

 

The stops on the balance lever casting do restrict the arm travel effectively.

 

Using the 1/32" tube to accommodate the operating rod works well but sticking the wire into the tube needs to be done with Araldite (gives more time for adjustment) not with superglue.

 

Building these slotted posts from plasticard, re-inforced with .7 mm wire in the solid portion of the doll works.

 

So I'll do this doll again, re-using most of the assemblies already made. Jim (S-W); what is it you said about doing it again (and even again, again) until it's right?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

So how to build a much more durable and stable NER style balance lever mechanism? I know this is a small detail but it is essential to the proper working of model signals. Each of the balance lever weights was augmented with a small disk of plasticard both sides, simply superglued to the etched weight. This does preclude heating these things up too much; those disks will just fall off or melt. Anyway that was achieved without too much difficulty. This mod is purely cosmetic but does add to the look of the things.

 

Spacing of the levers, one from another, is done again by using one of the MSE washers soldered to each side of the pivot hole on the lever. This is done by inserting the point of a compass through the washer and the lever to position and hold the washer. A quick touch of the iron and, hopefully, the compass point isn't also soldered to the whole thing and can be removed. Usually it comes out quite easily. The effect of soldering the washers to the lever is to widen the bearing area of the lever, so contributing to the lever not wobbling on the spindle. This is one of Mick Nicholson's techniques, as are many of the others.

 

So how to trap the levers on the .6 mm spindle tightly? One end of the spindle had two of the MSE washers soldered to it and then tidied up. The levers and the casting were then assembled on the spindle. Finally, a length of 1/16" tubing was used. I countersunk one end of the tube to open up the internal diameter and tinned it. The tinning was then filed off leaving solder only in the countersunk portion. The tube is then drilled .6 mm through the solder and forced onto the back of the lever plate. A quick touch of the iron locks the end of the tube onto the spindle, after which the tube is cut with a very fine piercing saw to leave a washer.

 

Magically, none of the levers were soldered to the spindle so everything moves freely and the resulting mechanism is stable on the spindle and appears to be quite durable.

 

I should add that on this arrangement, the top two levers are also soldered together so that moving the top one actually moves both. That's the nearset I'll get to the actual slotting mechanism of the prototype.

 

Photos this close and at this level of magnification are never kind, this one is no exception!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[LNERGE]

Does this work in the same way a real slot works? I'd always imagined getting the weights correct to pull the distant off and the controlling weights being heavy enough to lift the distant back on would be a real pain.

[mikemeg]

Does this work in the same way a real slot works? I'd always imagined getting the weights correct to pull the distant off and the controlling weights being heavy enough to lift the distant back on would be a real pain.

 

Yes and no! Pulling off the uppermost lever in the photo also pulls off the middle one; they're soldered together. In fact the uppermost lever, which is the representation of the next home along, doesn't do anything other than move the distant lever also. Because there is no slotting bar, covering all three levers, then it is possible to pull off the distant without the home signal above it - the lowest of the three levers in the photo - being pulled off. The lowest lever is independent of the two above it. So I can produce entirely unprototypical signalling movements by having the distant off and the home above it at danger.

 

So this arrangement looks like the prototype but doesn't work like the prototype. If it did then I could easily bend the levers under operating conditions for gravity just doesn't scale.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[LNERGE]

http://richard2890.fotopic.net/p48268780.html

 

Not so unprototypical...

 

Harringay Park Junction.

[the penguin of doom]

Signal box finials and signal finials are two completely different animals. Mick.

 

Hi Mick, (and Mike).

 

Just to clarify, I was talking about finials in general, but specifically, the NE and LNER types. Of course, the ones on the boxes are different. As I recall, the ones on Quay Crossing had a ball at the bottom, whereas, the ones on the signal posts would have to be flat bottomed. I actually intend scratch building, or kit bashing mine when I get round to it.

 

Nice work as ever Mike. I'm following this, (and your other threads) with interest.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[mikemeg]

Sean,

 

Good to hear from you. I read your threads too, especially the one covering the Pullman Car rebuilds - very nice.

 

So having decided to remake the first doll, and when I do this I immediately bin the old one just in case I have second thoughts, this doll has been completely redone along with starting the second doll. Because of the way I make these dolls, the distant has to be fitted into the slotted post as it is being made; the home will just spring in.

 

As the arms on these things were wood and therefore painted, I haven't used the thin film to colour the arms but have painted them with red, yellow and white matt paint and then 'distressed' the paint a little to represent fading and weathering.

 

The balance lever assembly is now tight and the levers don't wobble on their spindle. The little tubes have been shortened and fitted tighter to the doll and one or two other improvements have also been made. I had to fit the finial again, just so that I was back to the same place. I'm now happy with the appearance of the balance weights, they now look like weights. So now onto finishing this model.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

With the first of the lamps and the spectacle plates and glasses fitted, the thing now begins to look North Eastern. I did have to modify the MSE lamp bracket quite a lot in order to allow the lamp assembly to stand far enough off the doll to allow the operating rod to pass behind.

 

These things were always elegant but with lower quadrants, slotted posts and those umbrella and spike finials they were magnificent.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[dolland]

With the first of the lamps and the spectacle plates and glasses fitted, the thing now begins to look North Eastern. I did have to modify the MSE lamp bracket quite a lot in order to allow the lamp assembly to stand far enough off the doll to allow the operating rod to pass behind.

 

These things were always elegant but with lower quadrants, slotted posts and those umbrella and spike finials they were magnificent.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[dolland]

A future of sorts is confirmed

 

http://www.scarborougheveningnews.co.uk/news/Rail-signal-gantry-to-be.6493085.jp

[mikemeg]

A future of sorts is confirmed

 

http://www.scarborougheveningnews.co.uk/news/Rail-signal-gantry-to-be.6493085.jp

 

Perhaps if not inevitable surely the NYMR proposition was always favourite. With council budgets under enormous pressure and with Scarborough's proximity to the NYMR I can't see how they could make any other decision. And if the state of this thing is so parlous, requiring significant work and expenditure to make it safe, then better it gets a complete 'makeover' than slowly disintegrates stuck on the platform or in a car park.

 

These things were constantly changed during their working lives. The Falsgrave bridge lasted longer than any other and probably changed less than most of them and will now change again. At least it is going to do the job for which it was made, even if in shortened form and, you never know, the NYMR might even put slotted posts and lower quadrants on it.

 

And whatever the NYMR do, this bridge will always have the distinction of being the last of its kind.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[micknich2003]

I thought there was still an Iron Bridge at Harrogate or it it a Bracket? Mick Nicholson.

[mikemeg]

I thought there was still an Iron Bridge at Harrogate or it it a Bracket? Mick Nicholson.

 

Last time I saw this thing it was an iron sigmal bridge. Do you think all of this controversy over the fate of the Falsgrave bridge will be repeated in Harrogate when Network Rail decide to replace that one. Mind you, the Harrogate one is a mere tiddler compared with the Falsgrave bridge; just let anyone try shortening that one by 5.6 m.

 

So the ex-Falsgrave bridge will have the distinction of being the last but one.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Time for another couple of those black and white photos of Scarborough. Again I don't know the date of these photos; anyone with a detailed knowledge of these bridges could probably date them fairly accurately.

 

The first photo is another picture of the Washbeck signal bridge, this time from the up direction looking down towards Scarborough Londesborough Road Station, vaguely visible in the background. There were two more large signal bridges at the up end of this station, only just discernable on this picture.

 

The second photo shows the signal bridge at the down end of Londesborough Road Station and this really was an absolute monster, with a span of around one hundred feet, though actually comprising two bridges with a common central post. The Falsgrave bridge is in the middle distance, somewhere over the rear of the train. This one is the subject of the next drawing though there's no way that a 4mm drawing of this will go on an A4 sheet.

 

These things were very close together in Scarborough, often little more than a long train's length apart, sometimes even less.

 

Given the debate on here and elsewhere about the fate of the Falsgrave signal bridge, it's worth reflecting that these things passed into oblivion, and scrap, as a matter of course, there were always more still extant somewhere else.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

The second lever assembly is now fabricated. The idea of using the end stops, as per the prototype, at the right hand end of the balance lever casting, is to restrict the extent of movement of the balance levers. The two lever assemblies on this photo show the fullest extent of the lever travel.

 

The operating rod is then adjusted and stuck into the tiny pivotted tube on the arm with the arm at the horizontal and the lever at its lowest point, thus ensuring that the arm cannot rest above the horizontal. The extent of travel of the lower quadrant arm is then determined by the travel of the lever.

 

This whole assembly, including adding the extra layers to the weights, took no more than a couple of hours to make.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[modelmaker87]

The second lever assembly is now fabricated.

 

This whole assembly, including adding the extra layers to the weights, took no more than a couple of hours to make.

 

Cheers Mike

 

Hi Mike,

 

You know my style of scratch builing colour light signals. Have to say I do like what you have done here with this assembly, sweet.

 

You still painting...?

 

Cheers, Tony

[mikemeg]

Hi Mike,

 

You know my style of scratch builing colour light signals. Have to say I do like what you have done here with this assembly, sweet.

 

You still painting...?

 

Cheers, Tony

 

Tony,

 

Great to see and hear from you on here, all the way from South Carolina. Yes, I'm still painting though not as much as I would like; the two disciplines - painting and modelling - aren't complementary. The one with broad sweeps and some attention to detail, the other with all detail and no broad sweeps. I guess the compromise between the two disciplines might be to paint some railway pictures; in fact I'm doing one of an Austerity passing through Hessle Haven (well, where else?) then perhaps a painting of an A4 but on an unfitted empty mineral; I have the photograph of this and it was 1960 when the A4's were very much front line. Hull Dairycoates shed was no respecter of the prestigious Pacifics!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

After a week of lazing around on the beaches of Devon, drinking the odd pint of cider and generally soaking up the ambience of this wonderful county, it's back to making the models. I wonder if the cider has the same solution inducing qualities as the red wine?

 

I didn't see anything remotely 'North Eastern' down there just a few very strange looking locomotives, some with rectangular boilers, some with brass safety valve covers and copper capped chimneys, some elaborately lined out and all looking and sounding very splendid.

 

Anyway, at the moment there are no quandries requiring the application of the wine or the cider so on with this model.

 

The balance lever assembly has now been fitted to the second doll and the operating rods fixed, so just the lamp brackets, lamps and spectacle plates and glasses to do and then both dolls can be fixed into the lattice.

 

I think adding the prototypical step in the operating rods to bring them closer to the post works quite well and, for a couple of minutes of additional work, does make a real difference.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

At the risk of boring to death any readers of this thread, here's another couple of pictures of yet another of Scarborough's signal bridges. This one stood by the roundhouse - one of the NER's square roundhouses - in Scarborough MPD and was, by any measure, an enormous structure. So large and heavy that it was supported on pairs of lattice legs with a very deep lattice girder structure, 4' 6" or possibly 5' 0" depth. This to provide an unsupported span of around a hundred feet.

 

Whatever sequence the models of the Scarborough signals are made to, this one will have to come pretty near the end, for this will really exercise all of the techniques and more. I still have to work out what the sizes of the material sections were, which went to make up the lattice girders; they appear to be wider than the normal 2.25" or 3" sections on other bridges.

 

A very similar structure to this stood at Holgate in York until the early fifties, so photographs of that structure might provide some additional sizing information.

 

Interesting how many pictures of Scarborough in the 1950's and very early 1960's feature B16's, though given the number which York (50A) had allocated - at one time (1948) all sixty nine; Leeds Neville Hill (50B until re-numbered 55H) which had several during the 1950's, and more latterly Hull Dairycoates (50B after Neville Hill was re-numbered), which received around a dozen B16/3's in 1962/63, probably not surprising.

 

Look closely at the first of the two pictures and you can see one of the footplate crew leaning into shoving his locomotive round on the turntable.

 

Again looking at the first picture, the roads, from left to right, are engine shed line, relief line 2, relief line 1, down main and up main. The rake of coaches is standing in one of the carriage sidings. Each trio of dolls on the bridge, relates to each of the first four lines - engine shed line, relief lines 2 and 1 and the trio of taller dolls, with full size arms, to the down main line.

 

There was so much summer excursion traffic to Scarborough, from the 1920's up until the 1960's, that there were carriage sidings all over the place, including four miles of sidings off the Scarborough - Whitby line at Northstead.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[the penguin of doom]

Sean,

 

Good to hear from you. I read your threads too, especially the one covering the Pullman Car rebuilds - very nice.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Thanks Mike.

 

Keep looking in as the Brake 3rd's in the starting blocks......

 

The gantries are coming on nicely. Since I've been away a week or two, you've really cracked on. Looking very nice as always.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[mikemeg]

Thanks Mike.

 

Keep looking in as the Brake 3rd's in the starting blocks......

 

The gantries are coming on nicely. Since I've been away a week or two, you've really cracked on. Looking very nice as always.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

 

Sean,

 

I've got to ask you this; where did the name 'Penguin of Doom' come from? I'm still trying to relate penguins to doom or is there a sinister side to penguins?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Horsetan]

... where did the name 'Penguin of Doom' come from? I'm still trying to relate penguins to doom or is there a sinister side to penguins?

 

I keep thinking it might have something to do with the character in Wallace & Gromit's "The Wrong Trousers"

[mikemeg]

While the paint on the last lamp dries, with the last spectacle plate and all of the linkage components made and awaiting fitting then time to play around with the old digital camera.

 

One of the things I do enjoy is taking pictures of models from the vantage point that the prototype would be photographed from. In this case looking up from a point around the base of the posts. This serves to show, perhaps, how tall things were on the railways when these things were in service and, as has been pointed out before, these were by no means the tallest structures on the semaphore signalled railways.

 

There was something very victorian about these bridges with slotted posts and lower quadrants and it was a look which lasted well into the 1970's and even beyond.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[the penguin of doom]

Sean,

 

I've got to ask you this; where did the name 'Penguin of Doom' come from? I'm still trying to relate penguins to doom or is there a sinister side to penguins?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

I keep thinking it might have something to do with the character in Wallace & Gromit's "The Wrong Trousers"

 

I'm afraid you're wrong Horsetan, nothing to do with Grimace and Vomit I'm afraid.

 

At the risk of breaking copyright laws, its a phrase I saw somewhere, some place and made me chuckle out loud whilst in public, it might be my unique sense of humor? Anywho, nothing to worry about, nothing sinister about penguins in general.

 

Ahem, I'll get me coat then.......