mikemeg Posted November 4, 2010 Author Share Posted November 4, 2010 Mike, what material are you using..? Nickel silver, looks like stainless but I know its not. Cheers, Tony The 'L' angle, which forms the top and bottom horizontal members, is brass, as are the posts and their wrapping. The vertical and diagonal struts are .75 mm x .010" nickel silver; the crosses are .75 mm x .005" nickel silver. I guess the process of first straightening and then reducing the width to .75 mm does polish up the n/silver and it probably does appear as stainless until it loses its shine. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 4, 2010 Author Share Posted November 4, 2010 With both lattice girders completed and with the posts now fitted with their tubular fixings, then it's time to 'bite the bullet' and start assembling this thing. Always a time of trepidation, this is the key process in the whole build. On this one I started the assembly around the centre post on the basis that this was the area where the thing could very easily go out of square and out of straight. So the first lattice girder was placed back in the assembly jig and blu tacked down, after which the post was soldered to it at the top and along the intersection of the radiused members. If this lines up then the whole thing will line up; conversely, well I don't need to say. Anyway, line up it does and look at the strength of this structure. There is no support over about ten inches of the lattice, yet there is no vertical deviation from the horizontal. Proof that the applied mathematics of The Pratt Truss does hold true, even in 4 mm scale. So now we can move forward to finishing the bridge assembly. The jig for holding the completed bridge upright still needs to be made, this once the absolute distance between the three post fixings is established. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 Well I managed to find a piece of wood long enough to form the holding jig for this bridge. Next step is to add the second post, ensuring that everything stays straight and square. I do take these stages very slowly, checking the alignment of everything several times and fixing as much as possible with blu tack, within the assembly jig, while the soldering is being done. After all I've so far invested around thirty five hours in this model, with the drawing, the jig and the building to date, so would hate to **** it up now. So far, so good; just the third post to add and then the second of the lattice girders and this will be a bridge! Given the size of this thing, keeping it in consistent focus with the macro function enabled, might be a bit of a *******. Cheers Mike N.B. **** = mess? ******* = difficult thing to achieve? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Whoa mamma! Its going to be a good one..... I've just checked it against the picture I have of this structure and all looks good. The train beneath it is an excursion hauled by an LMS 4F and coaches from before the 1st world war and is dated 1938. Nice!..... Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Very nice indeed. The stage where everything goes from wibbly wobbly to rock solid is always one of the most satisfying parts of any build - and with this one doubly so I should think. Cheers, Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 The stage where everything goes from wibbly wobbly to rock solid is always one of the most satisfying parts of any build - and with this one doubly so I should think. Cheers, Chris. Chris, Until I started to assemble this thing I was not entirely certain that bridges of this size could be built using the techniques outlined in this thread. With care, a great deal of care, some planning on the assembly sequence and some luck thrown in, then they can be built. And you're right; going from wibbly wobbly to fairly (not yet rock) solid is very satisfying. The only other tricky thing left - everything else has been done before - is the scratch building of an enormous decking with almost two hundred planks, each 5' 6" wide (22 mm) and with around eighty of those tiny 1/32" tubes let into forty of the planks. As much as anything building these things is about patience and determination. It would be very easy to just break off certain of the very long and repetitive operations to do something else to relieve the tedium. Fatal; it then becomes doubly difficult to come back to finish such operations and the model would become part of some collection of 'partially complete but never to be finished'. This realisation has probably been the single most beneficial lesson from building these things. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 Completing the 'Post Trilogy Postings' we now have all three posts soldered up so this is the configuration of this bridge and bridge it now is, even though the second girder still has to be fitted. All posts touch the wooden jig so they must be level. Either that or the wood is seriously bent out of shape. So far, so good. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 The final part of this assembly operation involves fixing the second lattice girder to the posts so that it is :- 1) Exactly parallel and corresponding to the first girder in terms of the vertical and diagonal struts. 2) The tops of both girders are exactly horizontal across their entire length. 3) The tops of the two girders are exactly level so that the decking will sit absolutely horizontal. So some modifications to the assembly jig using the trusty 20" steel rule as the guide. This steel rule is only held vertically in place temporarily, in this arrangement, and can be slid out from the triangular retaining pieces (though they are fixtures and fitted both sides of the steel rule effectively trapping it) once the second girder is soldered up. Again this may seem like a lot of work - though this only took about thirty minutes to build and set up - but the key to building these things is squareness and accuracy. So thirty minutes to fully achieve 1), 2) and 3) ain't a bad investment in time and the only thing I need to hold is the soldering iron; everything else is held by the jig. It's about eliminating the 'error' from trial and error! Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 6, 2010 Author Share Posted November 6, 2010 And finally when it comes out of the modified jig, for the last time, it looks like this. It is parallel, it is corresponding, it is level and it is horizontal and that is what this assembly sequence is all about. Above all it is as good as I can do, though the next one will still be better as I continue to learn and improve. My target was to reach this stage by 'close of play' Friday - yesterday. I missed that so got up at first light today to get as close to the schedule, as possible. Old working habits die hard! So a picture for all of those who have so kindly commented on the shiny metal, for it'll never be more shiny than this. Now the jig can be put away until the next time I make a bridge as large as this - and exactly the same; the jigs are one offs. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 One word..... Awesome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 Thanks for that, Sean. Because these signal models, both for Hessle Haven and for Scarborough, are based on actual prototypes, then the construction techniques are designed to reproduce those prototypes as accurately as possible within the constraints of 4mm modelling. For most modellers, their S&T requirements are simpler than these and so some or even most of these techniques may not be applicable but, hopefully, some of the techniques and approaches to building these large models may at least be useful. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 That looks very neat work Mike Great stuff Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Brilliant stuff as usual Mike, but what this is all doing is putting me in a dilemma over my own still uncompleted signals for Eridge - I know now that I could do them much better (and if that wasn't the situation in modelling in general I would probably give up!), but I'm torn between finishing them as they are and accepting them as representative of a stage in my modelling evolution; and starting all over to do them better. The latter may not be as drastic as it seems, because much of the 'improved' bits would be to do with the brackets and landing - the posts and dolls are generally OK. Yes I know, only I can make this decision ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulr1949 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Brilliant stuff as usual Mike, but what this is all doing is putting me in a dilemma over my own still uncompleted signals for Eridge - I know now that I could do them much better (and if that wasn't the situation in modelling in general I would probably give up!), but I'm torn between finishing them as they are and accepting them as representative of a stage in my modelling evolution; and starting all over to do them better. The latter may not be as drastic as it seems, because much of the 'improved' bits would be to do with the brackets and landing - the posts and dolls are generally OK. Yes I know, only I can make this decision ... You're quite right, Rod - I don't think I'm even going to try 'cos I know that my efforts wouldn't look like signal gantries:huh: !! These look absolutely splendid. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I did manage to get to Scarborough for a last look back in August, and these really look the part. I do have a wall-mountged bracket to build in 7mm (from a Scale Signal Supply etch) and I will have to think very carefully about whether I take the plunge or try and find someone to do it for me. Talking of Eridge, I haven't seen much recently - any updates? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 Brilliant stuff as usual Mike, but what this is all doing is putting me in a dilemma over my own still uncompleted signals for Eridge - I know now that I could do them much better (and if that wasn't the situation in modelling in general I would probably give up!), but I'm torn between finishing them as they are and accepting them as representative of a stage in my modelling evolution; and starting all over to do them better. The latter may not be as drastic as it seems, because much of the 'improved' bits would be to do with the brackets and landing - the posts and dolls are generally OK. Yes I know, only I can make this decision ... If it's any consolation, on the latest signal bridge for Hessle Haven - the one described in this thread with lower quadrants - I have had to re-make :- Both sets of balance levers because the drillings were too far apart and would have necessitated having the pulleys directly under the handrail. Both dolls, because on one the thing was just wrong - mentioned earlier in the thread. On the other I assembled the doll up before one of the intermediate stages had set, so the bloody thing wasn't quite straight. So I'm by no means infallible; in fact the more things I try the more errors I make. Guess it's just that I'm prepared to make those errors and, as Jim S-W says, prepared to do it again until it's right. I reconcile this by the simple axiom that I really only ever learn from the mistakes. If it goes right first time, then I don't try and work out why. My advice, if you are considering re-doing your signals, would be to use as much as you can from the first attempt and just re-do that which absolutely shouts at you. Hope this helps. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelmaker87 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Brilliant stuff as usual Mike, but what this is all doing is putting me in a dilemma over my own still uncompleted signals for Eridge - I know now that I could do them much better (and if that wasn't the situation in modelling in general I would probably give up!), but I'm torn between finishing them as they are and accepting them as representative of a stage in my modelling evolution; and starting all over to do them better. The latter may not be as drastic as it seems, because much of the 'improved' bits would be to do with the brackets and landing - the posts and dolls are generally OK. Yes I know, only I can make this decision ... Rod, your decision is so easy, so make it. If you know you can do better, then do it. Forget the evolution stuff and go for goal. Nothing else is acceptable. That's how I go about life, not just modelling. And anyway, if you don't, you'll always know you didn't knowing full well you could have, and that will forever hang in your mind. Cheers, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 Rod, your decision is so easy, so make it. If you know you can do better, then do it. Forget the evolution stuff and go for goal. Nothing else is acceptable. That's how I go about life, not just modelling. And anyway, if you don't, you'll always know you didn't knowing full well you could have, and that will forever hang in your mind. Cheers, Tony Couldn't really be said any better. I think, Tony, that's pretty well my own axiom for life too; not just the modelling. As ever my friend, good on yer. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Talking of Eridge, I haven't seen much recently - any updates? Yes, I ought to write a new blog entry! So I'm by no means infallible; in fact the more things I try the more errors I make. Guess it's just that I'm prepared to make those errors and, as Jim S-W says, prepared to do it again until it's right. I reconcile this by the simple axiom that I really only ever learn from the mistakes. If it goes right first time, then I don't try and work out why. My advice, if you are considering re-doing your signals, would be to use as much as you can from the first attempt and just re-do that which absolutely shouts at you. Absolutely right that you learn the most from mistakes, Mike (applies to everything in life). I think redoing the brackets and landings would be the right move, as they were due for some butchery anyway on a couple of them, which started out as compromises and already shout at me! And anyway, if you don't, you'll always know you didn't knowing full well you could have, and that will forever hang in your mind. I think that's also correct, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 The next major stage of this model is the decking, which is some 385 mm (a scale 96'3") long. So, far from consigning this jig to the cupboard, there to gather dust, yet another incarnation of this hugely versatile collection of old bits and pieces - this time to do the decking. The decking will actually be assembled on the edging strips, which are 1.0 mm 'L' angle held 19 mm apart (21 mm over the angle pieces). The markings on the jig show the positions of the dolls through the decking and the positions of the 1/32" tubes which form the handrail upright stanchion castings. These marks also help to line the planks up perpendicular to the 'L' angle supports; the black painting just helps to space the planks by providing greater colour contrast so aiding sighting. Of course the really tedious job will be producing the one hundred and seventy five planks with thirty six of them having the 1/32" stanchion castings. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Hi Mike, The value of a well thought out jig cannot be underestimated. You seem to have developed a tried and tested method to make the most versatile jig for the job - and this must pay dividend during the build time and time over. For me the fascination for this model is only growing. Cheers, Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 9, 2010 Author Share Posted November 9, 2010 Hi Mike, The value of a well thought out jig cannot be underestimated. You seem to have developed a tried and tested method to make the most versatile jig for the job - and this must pay dividend during the build time and time over. For me the fascination for this model is only growing. Cheers, Chris. Hi Chris, Many thanks for the comments. For me to build these things, as I've said a time or two, using jigs is not an option, it is the only way I can do it. As this is by far the largest and most complex signal model I have ever built, then I either build a number of jigs or I adapt a single jig to multiple purposes. So it's not really a case of saving time so much as enabling the thing to be done at all. The target for this week is to get the decking done and fitted and to make a start on the eleven dolls. I always set targets and I frequently miss them but I always feel bad about missing targets, which is what target setting is really for, I guess. Many thanks for the interest, it is much appreciated. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 9, 2010 Author Share Posted November 9, 2010 Progress on the decking continues with around 5 inches done in two hours. So the whole decking should take about six hours to make. The cut outs for the dolls are only roughly done and will be finished off to size once the decking is fixed to the bridge. Strangely therapeutic is this job; I've got to consider it as that, otherwise the tedium will 'do mi ed in' to use an expression from the place of my childhood. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 11, 2010 Author Share Posted November 11, 2010 After around five and a half hours of relative tedium, this enormous decking is almost built with only twenty five more planks to add to the one hundred and fifty already done. It's enough to make even the most patient modeller (and that is certainly not me) into a plank counter. So just another half hour should see this stage completed. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemeg Posted November 11, 2010 Author Share Posted November 11, 2010 Time for another of those moments of truth. Firstly will the decking come out of the jig or has any of the superglue strayed onto the jig and glued the decking assembly to it? Well, it came out of the jig without any problem. So next, does the decking fit onto the bridge girders and does it sit perfectly horizontally. Answer is that it does and it does. So all is still well and I can finish off the bridge with the flitch plates and one or two other details prior to fixing this decking. For anyone with a statistical bent, there is around 12' 8" (almost 4 metres?) of 1.5 mm x .015" plasticard strip - all of which was cut from sheet - forming the planking on the decking. Good point reached to go to the next sequence of postings. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Time for another of those moments of truth. Firstly will the decking come out of the jig or has any of the superglue strayed onto the jig. Oh yes, it comes out of the jig without any problem. So next, does the decking fit and does it sit perfectly horizontally. Answer is that it does. So all is still well and I can finish off the bridge with the flitch plates and one or two other details prior to fixing this decking. Good point reached to go to the next sequence of postings. Cheers Mike Just repetition now Mike, keep up the good work. Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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