Steph Dale Posted August 5, 2010 Author Share Posted August 5, 2010 Pete, Colin, Ian, You are all most welcome. It's nice to know you guys are reading the piece and finding it useful. I've been getting more little bits an' pieces done tonight including assembling the Slater's brakegear fret. Fiddly stuff - my patience ran out about half an hour ago and that's it for the evening. It's just had the flux washed off and I'll have another bash at getting it complete tomorrow. I hasten to add that most of the problems were my own fault. I did have an idle five minutes earlier today and did a list of all the little jobs I've got to do before it's done. The list came to two very nearly full A4 sheets of fine ruled paper. There's still a lot to do - everything from blackening the lamp irons to getting the roof and sides together. I could be here for a while... Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted August 6, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 6, 2010 Reading this thread and that of Colin's may well give me the kick up the XXXX to get on with some of the SR coaching projects I have stashed away. Including Bulleid loose BCKs, R-Set, Tavern Pair (rebuilt), small vent Bulleid 3 Set L and converting some of Hornby's Maunsells to 1935 designs.... Pity work gets in the way! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted August 6, 2010 Author Share Posted August 6, 2010 Chris, Funny selection of vehicles you mention - I'm planning most of them in '0' too! I've already got sets of brass sides for the Bulleid loose BCK, 2-set and original Tavern coaches. There's even a set of rebuilt Tavern sides here which will have to be traded (a bit late for me). Modelling the Western section in the early 40s and late 50s means I need to master the modelling of the '35 stock as it seems to infiltrate every set I look at. In my case it's a conversion of Slater's kits though. I've got some thoughts (as yet unproven) for modelling flush-sided stock in styrene, but in the odd quiet moments I think that brass may well be easier. I'm still not certain (despite all that Colin has achieved with his 2HAP) that I can achieve suitably thin, strong sides in 7mm. I think I'd want a side of around 0.010" for flush glazing... I shall have plenty of time to think about it anyway. The '35 stock got jumped in the queue and I now know what's up next: they're not going to be scratchbuilt or made from plastic and they go 'chuff'. Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted August 27, 2010 Author Share Posted August 27, 2010 Progress is now taking more time than I currently have, so things have been a bit slow here for a few weeks now. Any attempt to get finished by the Gauge 0 Guild bash at Telford is now completely out of the question; I worked out that the final preparation and painting would take a fortnight... Anyway, I have been doing a few bits on the basis of an hour here and there and the ends are now done. They're shown here ready for bonding to the sides and having the roof profiles trimmed. The corner grab handles also need doing; these will also be marked, drilled and fitted after the coach body parts have been assembled. The gangway end has come out well and in the spirit of the rest of the model I chose to scratchbuild all this detail. Not that there are any suitable fittings available off the shelf anyway. The links for the alarm gear have been very much simplified as I was concerned about them being very vulnerable. The 'flags' will be added after assembly to the body; maybe even after painting. Similarly, the Slater's gangway will be fitted much later - the locating pegs can be seen ready for that. The guard's end is much plainer than the gangway end. In this case the major details are the vacuum hose and handbrake. The hose is modified from one provided by Laurie Griffin. The trick with this is going to be making sure that the vacuum plumbing on the underframe aligns correctly. I'm very pleased with the handbrake; but please don't look too closely... I'll carry on with the sides and post up some pics for you when they're ready for final assembly. Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Daft question. I would have cut the profile in the ends before adding all the detail. Any reason you did it in the sequence you have? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted August 27, 2010 Author Share Posted August 27, 2010 Mike, There isn't any beading or cover strip under the roof overhang and I'm concerned about getting the joint nice and neat; I don't fancy having to do any filling or fiddling because of the planking. Sooooo; my intention is to assemble the sides, ends and bulkheads on the floor and then trim the end until the roof sits down neatly. The sides and ends won't be stuck to the floor, but I can do the (screw) fixings at this point. The roof can then be trimmed to length, canvassed and then detailed. Then it can be glued down to the sides and ends. Does that make some kind of sense? I couldn't think of another way to do it if I'm honest... Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Mike, There isn't any beading or cover strip under the roof overhang and I'm concerned about getting the joint nice and neat; I don't fancy having to do any filling or fiddling because of the planking. Sooooo; my intention is to assemble the sides, ends and bulkheads on the floor and then trim the end until the roof sits down neatly. The sides and ends won't be stuck to the floor, but I can do the (screw) fixings at this point. The roof can then be trimmed to length, canvassed and then detailed. Then it can be glued down to the sides and ends. Does that make some kind of sense? I couldn't think of another way to do it if I'm honest... Steph Yes it all makes sense, but I am not sure about the steps and details. Assuming you will cut the end on the flat and then match it to the roof they may get in the way. I probably would have left the detailing off, cut the profile along the lines that you suggest, then strip down again and then detail. On the other hand, if it works, go for it. Good to see you back on the project. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Hi Steph, The new photos are very good. You can't be far from assembling it all now. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Steph, fantastic work. The bit I've noticed is there is a lot of repetition, lots of windows and doors the same size. This generates a lot of opportunity to make them all look different and unique. You've made them look the same though, which is a skill in itself well done and thank you for sharing your story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted August 28, 2010 Author Share Posted August 28, 2010 Mike, I'm expecting to get away with cutting the ends down using a mixture of cutters (to the rough line you can see drawn on the ends) and then a variety of files to get it to final shape. Hopefully without sustaining damage to the details in the process. I guess I just prefer working on things 'in the flat' where I can... Colin, It's not too far away I hope. I've spent this morning doing the doors on the sides and hopefully should have the sides themselves ready for assembly by the end of the weekend. The lower paneling around the matchboarding was stuck last night and trimmed today. I'm still umm-ing and aaah-ing about how to do the upper panel joints, with automotive cellulose tape being the most likely solution. Deano, With the right approach and tools, it's not actually that tricky. I was surprised! The trick is to cut the aperture sides out first, then cut across the corners to release the waste. The final shape and corners being put in with a file - having a couple of different sizes helps enormously with this stage. I also add that, although I'm very pleased with this as my first scratchbuilt coach, I'll be hoping to get better at it on future builds... Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted September 2, 2010 Author Share Posted September 2, 2010 With an irony that can scarce be believed, my busiest period of work on the 'Continental' has coincided with an upgrade to the server. Thankfully both seem to have gone smoothly and herewith is a photo-intensive bumper update! Getting ready for assembling the body I added bulkheads and fixing pads to the backs of both ends: The sides finally got their ventilator covers, droplights and the details around the guard's doors. You'll no doubt have already noted that the guard's doors open outwards, the passenger doors open inwards. Perverse...: So we now have all the ingredients for assembly, although the roof is still slightly over length and hasn't been canvassed yet: So the guard's end was assembled first, the other end then attached. All joints were checked for square, but without a suitable datum on the model parts for 'flatness' I had to check for twist by eye across the top of the sides, rather than using glass. The ends were then profiled around their sides and across the roof line. The roof was then dropped in place so that I could mark it up for trimming to length: Pushing the roof all the way towards the gangway end I had a closer look at the guard's end detail to compare with a couple of photos. It's starting to get there: Despite Mike's worries about cutting/trimming the end profile I'm pretty pleased with this. No parts (or animals, or people) were harmed in the making of these parts...: The roof was then trimmed to length and 'canvassed' with bog roll. I didn't worry too much about the odd wrinkle as the prototype of this coach is close to its final overhaul and in full Southern livery in 1949. After the solvent had evaporated off the roof I could then do the final trimming of the canvas before finally sticking it in place on the body using Plastic Weld along the long seams inside the body/roof. The ends were done from outside. The body was then rested upright on a firm surface and weighted overnight to hold the roof down. The bogie pivots were carved up and fitted last night too. So this morning I was able to unite the body, floor/frame and bogies for the first time: There's still a lot of detailing to do (don't coaches look strange with out cantrail beadings or gutters?) but it's a milestone. That's it for now, I'm doing 'other things' for a few days and will report back after Telford... Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted September 2, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2010 Exquisite, Steph, as we rather guessed it might be! Lovely to see it all come together so well. Bravo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Hi Speph, I have been busy of late doing 'other things' as you might say, but I keep an eye on the forum. How are you getting on with the 'Continental' ?! The recent pictures of the assembled coach look very good indeed. Regards, Colin Parks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hi guys, I'm just getting back round to this again. I left the model back in September to do some other jobs that took priority over this model, so sorry for the lack of updates. There were also two small problems that I needed to sort before taking the model to completion. These were related to the coupler(s) at the gangway end and I realised I was paying a small price for abandoning David Jenkinson's process of building coaches around a rigid box-like structure. The specifics were 1) getting a drop-head coupler worked up, or finding a suitable proietary product, or agreeing with the owners of the rest of the stock how we were going to form up the rakes. 2) The sides had flattened out as the solvent had dried off, so all my effort to catch the subtlety of the 'break' in the side had come to nought. There was another little issue around the operation of the Slater's gangways; the solution was thrust into my hands in the form of an MRJ article and they will now be suspended using spring steel (piano) wire so they should buffer and operate in much the same way as the real thing. Thankfully the solutions to both of the remaining problems are also now in hand, the model has returned to the workbench and I should even have it with me at Kettering show for anyone that's interested in seeing it, pointing and/or laughing. Yes; normal service has been resumed... Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hi Steph, I'm glad "normal service has been resumed". Was it leaves on the line?! What did happen to the sides that you made, was it the tumblehome that flattened? I have re-read the D Jenkinson book, and even he had to take care with open saloon coaches: there were no supports on his sides below window level in open saloons and on corridor sides. He did have the double thickness sides with a curved outer skin though, which kept the side to the correct profile. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 Colin, Not quite 'leaves on the line', no! Just a couple of locos needing servicing and an experiment with making up inside valvegear with bonded, rather than soldered crank-axle. But now I'm back on the proper stuff... To answer your question about the bodyside, I must confess it was always a concern that the movement might occur. Y'see these vehicles are based on a Hastings loading gauge series, just made a bit wider. So no tumblehome as such, but the steel sheeted upper half of the body narrows very slightly towards the roof. On this model the sides were made in two pieces, the lower matchboard side and the upper sheeted side. As the bond between the two pieces shrunk I ended up with a flat outer surface to the body, with the support layer bowing. Again it's a foible of this coach and not something I'd be hugely concerned about with modelling other vehicles. It's a pain, but it's something I've now worked out how to deal with, or so I think, hope, etc. The first evening back at the bench and the first of the problems has been dealt with. Fully functional drop-head couplers have been made up using Kadee #802 S-scale couplers (#803 0n30 couplers seem to be identical). On this vehicle it's a useful experiment, on some future builds such as Maunsell loose stock or the ends of rakes, it may well be an imperative to have this functionality. The only slightly unfortunate thing is that it takes two couplers to make each working drop-head, but the price, functionality, etc. stack up very nicely when compared with other products so, just for the record; that's one vehicle per packet. Here's what's involved. First the head is cut from a coupler and a hook is made up from two layers of 0.020" nickel-silver. The layers are then forked around the end of the coupler shaft and glued and pinned in place: This results in a self-centering hook when assembled into the Kadee draft box: The second coupler loses its back end and has a 1mm slot cut up from the rear. A couple of pin holes are then drilled; one permanent, one for the coupler retaining pin. After assembly it looks like this when 'up': Then gently lift the head, pull out the retaining pin and lower the head to access the hook. Yes, I did round off the end of the coupler so it doesn't obstruct the hook any more: I'm pretty pleased with that... Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
multiprinter Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Well done! I tried making a working drop head donkeys years back along with working Pullman gangways without quite succeeding. Are you going to make a working shunter (or guard) to lift the buckeye and put the pin in (not forgetting to shove the buffers back) ? I lifted and dropped a few buckeyes in my time as a guard but I was young and fit then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Hi Steph, Good work on the couplings there. I am pondering how to ahcieve the same sort of solution for my HAPs in 4mm. As for those sides of yours distorting: would it still be possible to make an inner-skin out of brass sheet and glue it to the back of the side? This is an idea which I will be trying out in 4mm. If the horizontal brass sheet was of the same thickness as your glazing and the verticals between the windows were soldered on the back of the horizontal sheet, you would end up with a rather nice channel in which to insert your glazing strip. This idea is pretty much like the D Jenkinson method, but substituting metal for the second layer of the side. D J didn't bother with the inner skin having radiused corners on the window apertures, so the result would be broadly similar using brass and ought to keep the side profile consistent. As for what glue would be best to bond brass to styrene I don't know. Evostik maybe? Regards, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 Colin, Bit of a delay getting back to this thread again, but having worked out how to strengthen up the vehicle I thought I'd better do it before reporting back. Then there was Kettering 0-gauge bash ('Hi' to everyone I saw/met there) and then a busy week at work. I'm still not completely 'sold' on the idea of using brass as a reinforcement on something of this size. To be fair it's worked fine in the truss rods on the underframe, but I spent a little while wondering if there was a simpler method I could employ. Afterall there was still the issue of the interior to resolve. And so a solution presented itself: Yes, I attached the corridor and compartment walls to the inside of the bodyshell. The seats and toilet compartment end up on the floor so that I'll still be able to get the airbrush in there for some paint. The interior walls were completely assembled outside the coach. From these three photos the construction methods should be pretty clear - the slots in the corridor wall will allow me to slip glazing in place after painting: And here's the proof it's worked. The set in the body side has made a very belated reappearance. It's subtle, but it's definately there...: Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted March 19, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2013 Fantastic modelling! How close to completion is it? Regards, Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Well done! I tried making a working drop head donkeys years back along with working Pullman gangways without quite succeeding. Are you going to make a working shunter (or guard) to lift the buckeye and put the pin in (not forgetting to shove the buffers back) ? I lifted and dropped a few buckeyes in my time as a guard but I was young and fit then. I've been looking for a practical demo of a working buckeye coupling for ages, and I've finally found it. Many thanks. I'm going to save those photos before they disappear!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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