HST Power Car

[Road Stone]

Just a quick question.

 

Just received the up rated HST Power Car set in original BR Blue/Yellow and inserted the decoders. On the instructions it shows two working "Fans" under the roof grill like many Hornby locos but when I took off the body these were missing. There's just a big hole.

 

Is this normal for the model and are the fans meant for a later varient?

 

It's also not particularlly fast even the the speed setting is on 255.

 

Cheers, Jerry

[Gwiwer]

I don't have the blue / yellow version but have just checked my IC version for you. The power and dummy cars are modelled from different batches and accurately represent the different cooler groups. So with the IC livery you have no fan in the power car and a dummy fan in the dummy car. I'm assuming it would be the same for the other liveries.

 

The models run at a speed likely to be acceptable on a typical layout. They won't go stonking round and round a table-top at a scale 125mph (which would look ridiculous anyway) but they do run fast enough, and in my case as full 2+8 sets, to cope with hills and bends at realistic speeds to around 80mph; a bit more down hill. If you have a long straight layout and want yours to come through at 125mph you may need to boost the power input.

[craigwelsh]

Is this normal for the model and are the fans meant for a later variant?

 

Cheers, Jerry

Yup and mine can do a scale 125 if I had the track for it.

 

You haven't put the transit bracket screw back in I hope? That would slow it down a bit as it can touch the fly wheel!

[Dagworth]

My set is simply too fast, and that's a full length set on a big layout with close on 6ft radius curves.

Which DCC system are you using and what is your track voltage?

 

Andi

[Road Stone]

Thanks for thr replies.

 

I use either the Elite or Prodigy, but prefer the Elite. I've installed two standard Hornby decoders which I find very good straight off.

 

There is no issue with performance, it runs really well given the extreme humid conditions, just a little supprised at the lack of top speed.

 

One other thing I have noticed, the Dummy does not run as freely as say the ancient version I have. Checked the wheels/axels are sitting okay so a little perplexed.

 

Otherwise a great model.

 

Cheers, Jerry

[Gwiwer]

The dummy cars on the present HST release have power pick up contact for the tail lights. As such they will not roll as freely as anything which does not have pick-ups. A few comments have been seen over the months this model has been out suggesting that the brake mouldings - which are to a very fine tolerance - might be rubbing on the wheels in a few cases. It's worth checking your wheels turn free of any other interference and are only impeded by the pick-up wipers.

[Removed a/c]

I have the East Midlands DCC fitted set and it runs very slowly. Would a different decoder solve the issue and should I disable the fans ?

[ThaneofFife]

Choice of decoder can have an effect on Hornby locos but usually its at the crawling end of the speed range not top end.

 

I dont believe they run quite as they should with Bachmann 3 function decoders.

[tetsudofan]

My personal opinion is that the working fans are a pain in the you know where. They look nice but on the model they don't work as they do on the prototype.

 

I recently had to return some of my HST power cars to Hornby to sort out some other problems and when we got round to talking about the fans I asked the helpful guy on the phone I was talking to to disable the fans whilst sorting out the other problems. No problem he said.....and that's what he did.

 

Keith

[valeofyork]

Hornby have modelled the HST power cars with the correct type of cooler group for their era, livery and batch as follows:

 

Marston coolers - two pairs of rectangular vents, no fans - blue-and-grey, intercity power car, GNER

Serck Coolers - one square vent, single fan - intercity dummy car, Virgin

Voith coolers - two rectangular openings with steel mesh over them, single fan - FGW

Brush Coolers - pair or fans with an individual grille over each one - XC, EMT, EC, NMT

 

So to answer the question, no the blue and grey ones shouldn't have any fans.

[sub39h]

valeofyork, I don't suppose you have any information in regards to which HSTs belong to which batch? I am interested in c1990 and have bought a Hornby I/C Swallow set one of which has the Marston coolers, and one which has Serck as per your information above. I am looking to rename and renumber two of these HST packs to ECML running numbers and would like to know the correct specs so I can pick appropriate numbers

[valeofyork]

valeofyork, I don't suppose you have any information in regards to which HSTs belong to which batch? I am interested in c1990 and have bought a Hornby I/C Swallow set one of which has the Marston coolers, and one which has Serck as per your information above. I am looking to rename and renumber two of these HST packs to ECML running numbers and would like to know the correct specs so I can pick appropriate numbers

 

I've sought clarification on this on the HST forum (thanks for the replies there) and as I thought 1990 is too early for the Voith or Brush coolers, so you're looking at Marstons or Sercks in everything. As originally fitted, everything up to and including 43152 had Marstons, and 43153-43198 had Sercks. They got swapped around a fair bit though during overhauls so by that time you could find either in any given power car, although apparently those allocated to Edinburgh Craigentinny all had Marstons.

 

To be honest I think your best option is to try to find photos from the time you want to represent. Finding a suitable one for the power car with the Marston shouldn't be difficult, but the Serck might be a bit more tricky.

 

I've asked the question on the HST forum and if I get any answers I'll post them here.

[sub39h]

hi there - thanks very much for your reply. it's very helpful. i was planning on just keeping them as per the original build specs. for ECML locos that would mean i think all but 2 or 3 would have had Marstons which is fine by me because i think they look better and because Hornby in their infinite wisdom put the Serck cooler in the dummy car instead of the power car so it doesn't rotate, even though they did make the Virgin motorised power cars with a rotating fan so they had the means to do it. 

 

i may try and take a look at some photos for the specific locos I'd be looking to represent, but most of them don't give a clear enough shot of the roof to be able to see what was fitted anyway. 

 

i don't suppose you know if the roof vents on the Hornby HSTs are interchangable? or have they been moulded on? i can't seem to tell from the photos and my packs haven't actually arrived yet. i'm thinking about buying a different set as a donor for parts

[valeofyork]

The view of the HST forum seems to be that all Sercks were probably gone from the ECML fleet by the time you are looking at, so you might be out of luck! Bodyshells do come up on ebay sometimes so you might be able to find one with the Marston.

 

As regards swapping bits around, from memory the body moulding is the same for Marstons and Voiths, with the former having the grills glued on and the latter the metal mesh (which Hornby wrongly paint in FGW blue - it should be a silver metal colour). The Sercks and Brush ones each have different basic mouldings. Depends how far you want to go - you might be able to cut out the Serck and glue in the Marston from a scrap bodyshell. That would then give you a pair of power cars suitable for the ECML.

[sub39h]

i probably will keep a single Serck just for a bit of variety. might not be strictly prototypical, but i'm going to get hold of the rotating fan from the Virgin set if I can and put it in a motorised car so at least it'll spin.

 

only problem is I need 5 power cars in total. so if i get 2 sets, i'll have 2 Marstons and 2 Sercks, then if I get a 3rd set maybe I can swap two of the power cars so there's 2 of the Sercks in the same set and flog it on eBay - then I'll have 3 Marstons and 1 Serck. Then I'll probably just wait and see what Hornby do for a new release. I want one in InterCity Exec livery anyway for a little variety (again I don't think that's strictly accurate as I think they were all Swallow by then, but i'd prefer variety rather than worrying about tiny details). 

[valeofyork]

The only HST power cars Hornby currently have scheduled for release are a pair of blue/grey/yellow ones with exhaust deflectors (the first set in this livery didn't have these). They haven't done Executive yet.

 

As I recall the lighting units in the power and dummy cars are different so if you swap the bodies you'll need to swap these too.

[sub39h]

yep you're right about the lighting. it's so they light up correctly rather than both showing head lights or tail lights at the same time. it's a pretty easy thing to swap anyway! 

 

i know they haven't done Exec yet, but as they're reissuing the blue/grey ones i have a sneaking suspicion that Exec and a new release of the Swallow aren't going to be too far behind

[valeofyork]

 

i know they haven't done Exec yet, but as they're reissuing the blue/grey ones i have a sneaking suspicion that Exec and a new release of the Swallow aren't going to be too far behind

 

I suspect you're right - there aren't many other liveries for them to do, really. They could do the first three (F)GW liveries, and the two MML ones, but I rather doubt if any of them would be particularly good sellers. They've done all the current ones apart from East Coast grey, but that's hardly even a proper livery and probably wouldn't sell particularly well, either.

 

A re-release of the current FGW livery might be another possibility as those seem to have sold well and this year they are releasing a second batch of Mk3s in that livery. 43002 / 003 in their current guise would probably be a good seller (I'd certainly buy it!).

[sub39h]

they could do GW Merlin livery - I saw a Lima set sell on eBay with 2 TSOs for £135 so somebody must want them! I wish I'd known, a couple of months back I traded my mint condition version of it in for £70! 

 

I'd like to see a surrogate DVT released. it can't be that much work now they've got the Grand Central and NMT sets. It would save me having to convert one as well (which is the explanation behind why I want an odd number of power cars - the 6th will probably just sit in a depot on my TMD though I may well have it motorised so it can move about on it's own). 

[valeofyork]

The ones worth the most are the FGW fag-packet ones as Lima went bust shortly after they'd started production, so not that many were made. Hornby never produced this livery (except, weirdly, the TGS, a bit later) That said, I'm not sure there would be enough demand for them to justify a production run.

 

Easiest way to make the DVT would be to pick up a Grand Central chassis on ebay and cut your chosen bodyshell to fit (the GC bodyshell has the correct cooler group, but the wrong lights on the front).

[sub39h]

what you've suggested above is exactly what i'm planning. i just wish i'd thought of it before i put some bids in on a stand alone Virgin power car and a Swallow body (although i noticed later the Swallow body is the wrong time). both are low bids so hopefully i won't win them and then i'll just buy a GC set from Hatton's and butcher it for parts

 

are the buffers attached to the chassis or the body?

[valeofyork]

Buffers are attached to the chassis.

 

It's worth looking for pictures of the specific power car you want to model as the valence is not cut quite the same on all eight of them.

[sub39h]

43123 is my goal - i've seen a couple of photos but i know someone else has modelled it so tbh i was just going to follow his example as he said on a thread that he used 43123 as he had a lot of photos of it. plus i just like the number 43123 for some reason! 

 

thanks very much for all your help. your information really has been invaluable.

 

the last thing i need to decide now is whether to make my spare car a buffered or non buffered example, and if i make it buffered whether i should make both of them Swallow or one of them Exec and one Swallow. i guess i'll just have to wait and see what specs Hornby release an Exec pack in (if they ever do) and make the decision from there 

[valeofyork]

I don't believe all of the buffered power cars carried Executive livery at the same time as they had buffers. 43123 certainly did, with a yellow nose and cab roof. There's a good picture of it on the front of the 1988 Ian Allan abc Coaching Stock book, on test with some Mk2s and a Class 86.

[sub39h]

43123 will be in Swallow livery without the full yellow ends