Travelling by train

[Michael Hodgson]

16 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Agreed.

Plus folk in Information Technology, where using VPN / remote access / video calls was already a routine thing.

 

 

Same here, for one day a week, just to get out the house, get some face-to-face and real human interaction. I even got to hug the very nice cleaning ladies who call everyone darling. And a stop at the supermarket on the way home for some essentials.

Well of course if nobody goes into the office to make a mess of the place, the cleaning ladies aren't needed.  I hope you realise you're putting their jobs at risk.

[Gilbert]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Well of course if nobody goes into the office to make a mess of the place, the cleaning ladies aren't needed.  I hope you realise you're putting their jobs at risk.

The whole economy will change...no coffee shop visits, sandwiches bought, lunchtime shopping trips for those in town centres, banking visits, after work socials......

[Mark Saunders]

12 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

The whole economy will change...no coffee shop visits, sandwiches bought, lunchtime shopping trips for those in town centres, banking visits, after work socials......

It would be nice if this money was redistributed and spent locally ether than chain shops/cafes.

[Ozexpatriate]

14 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

The whole economy will change...no coffee shop visits, sandwiches bought, lunchtime shopping trips for those in town centres, banking visits, after work socials

The cleaners where I used to take my shirts is struggling. Much of their business was from office workers who didn't want to launder and iron their office clothes. They are still of course a dry cleaners, but the business is nothing like it was.

 

The teriyaki place two doors down used to be swamped every weekday lunchtime. Not so much now. 

[KeithMacdonald]

54 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

the cleaning ladies aren't needed.  I hope you realise you're putting their jobs at risk.

 

Au contraire, mon ami!

 

Since the "revised cleaning policy" (because Covid), our office cleaners have had more work to-do.  *

 

* Terms and conditions may apply. The workload of your cleaners may go up as well as down.

[bradfordbuffer]

On 19/10/2021 at 09:00, Wheatley said:

 

Because it doesn't cost the operator any more to sit them in the empty first class compartment than to leave them in standard class taking up space and contributing to the general lack of social distancing. A vanishingly small number of staff now get actual paid for by their employer first class travel, shoving the others in first to alleviate crowding in standard has long been some conductors' preferred option. 

Oh stand down brother....I done the service ....leave my priv 1st class travel alone, I don't want to sit with the un washed in 'standard'

 

Priv travel was part of pay structure so perversely already paid for travel as pay lower due to privilege travel...and in times of disruption and incidents the off duty staff are duty/moraly bound to help out, I personal have helped out on more than one occasion when in civvies....and commuting to work

[rockershovel]

6 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Oh stand down brother....I done the service ....leave my priv 1st class travel alone, I don't want to sit with the un washed in 'standard'

 

Priv travel was part of pay structure so perversely already paid for travel as pay lower due to privilege travel...and in times of disruption and incidents the off duty staff are duty/moraly bound to help out, I personal have helped out on more than one occasion when in civvies....and commuting to work

Which really, demonstrates my point. It was always known, and generally accepted that public sector remuneration was low compared to the private sector, offset by pensions, job security and minor perks.

 

Orchestrated attacks on any sort of pension are now ubiquitous (google "selfish pensioners" and stand back as the hits flood in....) and the railway are getting their fair share of it. There is also the unavoidable conclusion that the railways are heading towards some sort of de-facto renationalisation, in which anything perceived as protection of existing contracts will be enormously unpopular with the electorate. 

 

The railways have the unfortunate problem of selling, in large part, a necessary service which their commuter customers resent and dislike. Their long-distance booking system is unworkable and incomprehensible to many, the memory of "travel by any route using any ticket" is still strong. We are exhorted not to travel, but told we need a squillion-pound express network London to Birmingham (after all, the Leeds line is already abandoned in all but name). 

 

Somewhere in the foreseeable future, lies a high-profile, high-impact transition by which the railway operating structure releases or rebalances some of the existing stresses. Its a safe bet that whatever it proves to be, it won't be popular and the press will not be shy of adding to the uproar. 

[bradfordbuffer]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

Which really, demonstrates my point. It was always known, and generally accepted that public sector remuneration was low compared to the private sector, offset by pensions, job security and minor perks.

 

Orchestrated attacks on any sort of pension are now ubiquitous (google "selfish pensioners" and stand back as the hits flood in....) and the railway are getting their fair share of it. There is also the unavoidable conclusion that the railways are heading towards some sort of de-facto renationalisation, in which anything perceived as protection of existing contracts will be enormously unpopular with the electorate. 

 

The railways have the unfortunate problem of selling, in large part, a necessary service which their commuter customers resent and dislike. Their long-distance booking system is unworkable and incomprehensible to many, the memory of "travel by any route using any ticket" is still strong. We are exhorted not to travel, but told we need a squillion-pound express network London to Birmingham (after all, the Leeds line is already abandoned in all but name). 

 

Somewhere in the foreseeable future, lies a high-profile, high-impact transition by which the railway operating structure releases or rebalances some of the existing stresses. Its a safe bet that whatever it proves to be, it won't be popular and the press will not be shy of adding to the uproar. 

Public short on memory....let's clap for NHS but when thay want a rise....let's turn our back...

The railway gave gone from a very buoyant situation ie new trains flying off offshore factory's to open letters been sent to staff asking for sacrificial lambs to cut costs, difficult 5 years ahead.

personally three years before c19 hit I planed for early retirement (50!) And put my notice in January 2020 just as the pandemic started to take hold and saw my pension pot slowly drain, luckily enough left in by mid April on finish day although wheels in motion and no going back...but for them left behind not a nice time as planed pots of cash and dreams of what thay where going to do disappearing like a goast train.

Personally I escaped .....just in time, since march last year I've been on two short train trips....shock horror in STANDARD class with the plebs...

Please don't bash the rail staff as there are one or two bad apples but most are hard working people and if any rail staff are on this forum are highly likley to be passionate about there vocation, 

Side note for any new rail staff (toc) or freight staff....I think priv travel should be for all not just protected staff now is time to campain via unions whilst less plebs sorry public traveling.

G

[KeithMacdonald]

2 hours ago, rockershovel said:

We are exhorted not to travel, but told we need a squillion-pound express network London to Birmingham (after all, the Leeds line is already abandoned in all but name). 

 

The HS2 thread (here on RMWeb) is giving that topic a good thrashing, but mainly focusing on the technicalities of the construction. Personally, I'm inclined to "Follow The Money" and wonder "Who Benefits?"

 

Both are wonderfully combined in the life and times of Baron Marples of Wallesey - a.k.a. Ernest Marples (1907 – 1978) Minister of Transport.

 

Quote

Marples had resigned as a director of Marples Ridgway in 1951 when he became a junior minister, but continued to hold 80% of the company’s shares. He still held them in early 1960 when Marple Ridgway won a tender to build the Hammersmith Flyover despite not being the lower bidder. After a kerfuffle in the press, he attempted to sell his shares to his former partner, Ridgway, but the Attorney-General rejected this as he would be able to buy them back. But he was allowed to sell them to his wife instead. Marples Ridgeway, although not the direct contractor, was involved in the building of the M1, Britain’s first motorway. In 1962 Marples oversaw the Transport Act which simplified the closure of railways, and appointed Richard Beeching to recommend such closures which amounted to 55% of stations and 30% of track.

 

The most astonishing thing is how blatantly corrupt it all was, but the "major beneficiaries" were the road construction firms . I'll skip his, err,  "active involvement" in the Profumo Scandal of 1963.

 

Quote

Marples was not a minister in the next Conservative Government, that of Edward Heath, 1970-4, and he retired at the 1974 general election. Later that year he became a life peer as Baron Marples of Wallesey. However his business activities were catching up with him. The tenants of a block of flats he owned in Putney were demanding that he repair serious structural faults; he was being sued for £145,000 by the Bankers Trust merchant bank; Inland Revenue was demanding that he pay nearly 30 years of back taxes on his residence in Eccleston Square; and that he pay capital gains tax on other properties.
In early 1975 he fled to Monte Carlo, and the Treasury froze his assets in Britain. In November 1977 he made a payment of £7,600 to the British government and was able to return.  He spent his final years in France, and died in hospital in Monte Carlo in July 1978 age 70.

 

I can neither confirm nor deny that any such characters and motives are actively involved in, or benefiting from,  the construction of HS2. You might, however, wonder who is involved with the "major beneficiaries" (the construction firms) this time round.

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

I can neither confirm nor deny that any such characters and motives are actively involved in, or benefiting from,  the construction of HS2. You might, however, wonder who is involved with the "major beneficiaries" (the construction firms) this time round.

Construction firms did quite well in the 1996 Privatisation of BR's infrastructure teams. Amec, Amey and Balfour Beatty come to mind. I have no idea what support these companies choose to provide to political organisations, but suspect it isn't to the Greens or the Loony Left. 

[rockershovel]

42 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Construction firms did quite well in the 1996 Privatisation of BR's infrastructure teams. Amec, Amey and Balfour Beatty come to mind. I have no idea what support these companies choose to provide to political organisations, but suspect it isn't to the Greens or the Loony Left. 

Balfour and Taylor Woodrow were certainly particular supporters of Mrs Thatcher, and Conservstive Party associations with the McAlpine family are a matter of record

[rockershovel]

4 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Public short on memory....let's clap for NHS but when thay want a rise....let's turn our back...

The railway gave gone from a very buoyant situation ie new trains flying off offshore factory's to open letters been sent to staff asking for sacrificial lambs to cut costs, difficult 5 years ahead.

personally three years before c19 hit I planed for early retirement (50!) And put my notice in January 2020 just as the pandemic started to take hold and saw my pension pot slowly drain, luckily enough left in by mid April on finish day although wheels in motion and no going back...but for them left behind not a nice time as planed pots of cash and dreams of what thay where going to do disappearing like a goast train.

Personally I escaped .....just in time, since march last year I've been on two short train trips....shock horror in STANDARD class with the plebs...

Please don't bash the rail staff as there are one or two bad apples but most are hard working people and if any rail staff are on this forum are highly likley to be passionate about there vocation, 

Side note for any new rail staff (toc) or freight staff....I think priv travel should be for all not just protected staff now is time to campain via unions whilst less plebs sorry public traveling.

G

.... which really wasn't my point at all. The railways definitely aren't the NHS.

 

I can't see any evidence of public enthusiasm for Privatisation, either before or since.

 

Any public goodwill they ever enjoyed, is long since spent .... mine would have evaporated during my Plymouth period, but exasperation with the booking process - and particularly an absurd episode involving having to find a different route from Hartlepool to Peterborough - had already completed the job. 

 

Commuters rarely have a good word to say for their daily travails, either. The omnishambles surrounding ECML speaks for itself. Public support regarding the benefits of HS2 seems undetectable by present technology; the proportion of the population with no conceivable interest in the journey time from Birmingham to London seems to be an overwhelming majority

Edited October 21, 2021 by rockershovel

[C126]

7 hours ago, rockershovel said:

The railways have the unfortunate problem of selling, in large part, a necessary service which their commuter customers resent and dislike.

 

May I just say that the (1st Class) commuting is, for me, the best thing about being in employment, and this on a Voyager by one who yearns for a 4CIG compartment.  The train-crew are wonderful, and I am putting pennies aside as and when to donate to the inevitable strike-fund I see looming, for the local R.M.T. branch...

 

Not that this adds much to the discussion, but I wanted to nail my colours to the mast.

[bradfordbuffer]

57 minutes ago, C126 said:

 

May I just say that the (1st Class) commuting is, for me, the best thing about being in employment, and this on a Voyager by one who yearns for a 4CIG compartment.  The train-crew are wonderful, and I am putting pennies aside as and when to donate to the inevitable strike-fund I see looming, for the local R.M.T. branch...

 

Not that this adds much to the discussion, but I wanted to nail my colours to the mast.

Your colours are true and righteous...thanks for suport of rail workers....

From my perspective (retired driver) front line drivers have it cushy...very well projected and to a degree shelterd by aslef and rmt where applicable! (An other topic started rail unions)poor on train and lower grades have it rough....managers ride rough shot over terms and conditions but possiblely of there own doing by 'opted out by not paying union subs/disagree with policy's'

[bradfordbuffer]

2 hours ago, rockershovel said:

.... which really wasn't my point at all. The railways definitely aren't the NHS.

 

I can't see any evidence of public enthusiasm for Privatisation, either before or since.

 

Any public goodwill they ever enjoyed, is long since spent .... mine would have evaporated during my Plymouth period, but exasperation with the booking process - and particularly an absurd episode involving having to find a different route from Hartlepool to Peterborough - had already completed the job. 

 

Commuters rarely have a good word to say for their daily travails, either. The omnishambles surrounding ECML speaks for itself. Public support regarding the benefits of HS2 seems undetectable by present technology; the proportion of the population with no conceivable interest in the journey time from Birmingham to London seems to be an overwhelming majority

Rail commuters always winge!.....even when on time! Delays happen fact

......320 plus journeys a year thay don't remember the trips that where on time + a seat+ jot coffee+sunny weather+  air con working...only remember the bad

[rockershovel]

2 hours ago, C126 said:

 

May I just say that the (1st Class) commuting is, for me, the best thing about being in employment, and this on a Voyager by one who yearns for a 4CIG compartment.  The train-crew are wonderful, and I am putting pennies aside as and when to donate to the inevitable strike-fund I see looming, for the local R.M.T. branch...

 

Not that this adds much to the discussion, but I wanted to nail my colours to the mast.

Well, I had a first-class season ticket for one year in the late 80s, and it was pretty good. I usually travel 1st class when I travel by train at all these days, and mostly I quite enjoy it. 

 

But, but, but.... my experiences as a standard class commuter in the 80s and early-to-mid 90s were pretty awful. No fun at all. Chronically overcrowded, coffee? Really? Increasingly expensive, too. 

 

I don't think commuters much care about timekeeping, the way the railways do. 10 mins more or less, commuters don't really care about that. Not getting a seat most days, that's what upsets them. Queueing in the cramped, draughty chaos of Kings X, then scrambling to another platform because the leader board changes just as the gates open and you have minutes to board, that's a good way to upset them and that would happen at least once a week. 

 

No, the standard class commuter experience, taken in the round is pretty unattractive, and barely sweetened by necessity. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

I noticed that the local dry cleaners is closed and shuttered. Their business model was based on office wear (including issued uniforms), wedding dresses and associated hire suits, bedding for local hotels...