Line manager

[Michael Hodgson]

35 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

1% attempted to exploit the situation by playing the two managers off one against the other.

Only 1% playing office politics - you were lucky.

[Nearholmer]

We made our own luck. The key is for the two managers to talk, and visibly so; its when the two managers go into stand-off mode that people in the matrix get either confused (by being pulled/pushed in conflicting directions), or start seeing opportunities to "duck and dive".

[Ozexpatriate]

9 hours ago, spikey said:

And do any workplaces still have works canteens?

8 hours ago, Reorte said:

Work canteen here, although it's obviously been absent throughout a large proportion of the last couple of years, and still isn't back to where it was yet.

Canteens (cafeterias in the US) were very common in the corporate world up until the pandemic shut down. Most large corporate campuses (perhaps >500 employees?) would have one.

 

I've seen office towers with multiple corporate tenants that have a cafeteria operated by the leasing company, though I haven't worked in that environment in many years.

 

There is a whole industry in providing third-party cafeteria outsourcing, so companies don't have to manage the operation themselves. I do wonder what the future of this industry holds. They would be devastated by the pandemic.

 

As corporations decide whether or not they will insist on employees returning to the office post-pandemic will determine whether or not they continue to exist.

[Bernard Lamb]

19 hours ago, EddieB said:

Most companies I've worked for (or clients) are private sector, but commonly impose an inflexible  policy towards budgeting and spending - but at least they're answerable to shareholders (in theory).

 

I was at my happiest when I wasn't assigned a budget limit, accountable but trusted that I would spend wisely and found I was in a better position to negotiate best prices.  Even when it comes to claiming expenses I always try to treat other people's money as I would my own.

 

 

I was fortunate to have a boss who would send you to site with the instruction. Come home when the client is happy, be as quick as you can, cause as little disruption as you can and spend as little money as you can. If I spent a lot, any discussion about it was private between me and my boss. My boss being the MD rather than the next manager up the chain of management. One day after making a complete pig's ear of a job I expected a right earful, only to be told not to worry as I made far less mistakes than most people. On asking why he was taking it so well his answer was that if he gave me a bollocking then I would have thought to myself "Up yours" rather than gone away to try and come up with a solution.

On the point of expenses I was told long ago by a Technical Rep in one of the big steel companies that you were entitled to live to the same standard when you were away on company business as your salary allowed you to live when at home. That seems pretty fair to me.

Bernard

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

On the point of expenses I was told long ago by a Technical Rep in one of the big steel companies that you were entitled to live to the same standard when you were away on company business as your salary allowed you to live when at home. That seems pretty fair to me.

Bernard

I take it then that you would have approved my French colleague's claim for a lady's "entertainment"?

Coincidentally the boss who turned him down happened also to be called Bernard.

 

As things turned out, it would have been better had we fired that Frenchman since a few years later he ran off to Marseille after embezzling $100,000 as his salary proved insufficient to fund his wives and mistresses!  Last I heard of him he had been seen driving a cab in Paris.  Senior management decided not to prosecute him in order to avoid adverse publicity.

 

 

[Ozexpatriate]

10 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

On the point of expenses I was told long ago by a Technical Rep in one of the big steel companies that you were entitled to live to the same standard when you were away on company business as your salary allowed you to live when at home. That seems pretty fair to me.

The 'reasonable person' standard of spending what you would normally spend if it were your own money was applied in most jobs in my experience.

 

Many years ago a manager approving an expense report stormed through the office shouting at an employee for a meal reimbursement. "TWO TACOS!" he yelled incredulously. He was of course pulling the employee's leg and, not incidentally, for not treating himself to something nicer.

[pH]

On 27/09/2021 at 04:58, Michael Hodgson said:

The "punch girls" - and they did only employ women in that role - were good but inevitably made some mistakes.  So we punched up our own corrected cards by hand ourselves in order to avoid a 2-3 day turnround delay.  

Single-card non-interpreting manual card punches? Respect!! 
 

There was one card punch machine in the reception area for the machine room, which was nearer than the punch operators’ room, so we could use that for corrections. But some of our system programmers could hand punch cards - and join in a conversation at the same time!

Edited September 28, 2021 by pH

[PMP]

On 27/09/2021 at 12:58, spikey said:

  The former was the size of a small bungalow and was driven by/presided over by a girl known throughout the plant as W@nking Wendy, and the latter were the original made-in-USA glass-bodied ones, kept going when they started drying up by the addition of acetone or IPA.

I can’t believe no ones asked the question.

[Michael Hodgson]

22 minutes ago, pH said:

Single-card non-interpreting manual card punches? Respect!! 

They're really not difficult to use, but you do have to remember codes for certain characters such as full stops (10-3-8), much the same as a signalman had to remember 3-2-5 for a freightliner.

 

More interesting was correcting a single incorrectly punched character by filling in a hole you didn't want.  This was done by picking up a chad with the tip of a pencil, inserting it into the hole and then smoothing over gently with the pencil.  It was considered bad practice as the chad could fall out, but I don't remember it happening.  I have seen chads used for modelling roof tiles or brickwork but that's a bit too tedious for me.

 

Non-interpreted cards weren't a big issue until a clumsy computer operator (remember them?) dropped a job.  Most days I had to run a system test using about 3,000 cards (two long trays) ...  I made a point of serial numbering them.

 

I still have a cabinet for punched card trays, it's ideal for storing unbuilt kits - and I've got another designed for paper tape.  The drawers are exactly the right height for Humbrol tins, so it's also great for storing sheets of transfers, small tools, papers etc.

[Michael Hodgson]

4 minutes ago, PMP said:

I can’t believe no ones asked the question.

if you really want to know, I suggest you ask spikey!

[PMP]

On 27/09/2021 at 12:10, black and decker boy said:

No, what tends to happen is money unspent in year 1 wasn’t necessarily not needed, just wasn’t spent in that year.

 

what treasury likes to do is not only not allow it to roll over but to reduce year 2 budget by the same, unspent amount. So now you can’t complete works planned from year 1 but also cannot now afford everything you planned in year 2.

 

it’s utter madness but is still the way it works in 2021

I’ve seen this illustrated epically by one manager. Our operations required winter bad weather planning and money was always in the budget for that contingency. At a spring meeting our superhero manager announced that we’d done well, he’d made savings in the budget due to the mild winter. What we couldn’t get him to understand was he’d not made any saving, he’d just not spent it as we hadn’t had any snow. 
Needless to say the budget was reduced thanks to his excellent management in saving a substantial sum of money. The next winter we had a proper winter, significant cold spells, ice & snow, he then understood the difference between ‘not spending’ and a genuine ‘saving’, and his stock as a skilled manager went appropriately south.

[pH]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

More interesting was correcting a single incorrectly punched character by filling in a hole you didn't want.  This was done by picking up a chad with the tip of a pencil, inserting it into the hole and then smoothing over gently with the pencil.  It was considered bad practice as the chad could fall out, but I don't remember it happening. 

 

Or licking the chad, then sticking it into the card. Suitable for 'one journey only' through the card reader.

 

Dropped decks? Yes, I remember those.

[Ozexpatriate]

50 minutes ago, pH said:

Or licking the chad, then sticking it into the card. Suitable for 'one journey only' through the card reader.

I had in my possession (never having to use it) a manual paper tape punch for correcting paper tape machine instructions.

 

It was a substantial punch and machined, diecast metal die with an alignment nub (for the tape) and a hinged cover to align the punch, which was attached by a chain - like you used to find for the ball point pens at a bank.

 

I don't know what happened to it, it seems to have vanished over several moves.

 

50 minutes ago, pH said:

Dropped decks? Yes, I remember those.

A royal PITA sorting them out again.

[Bon Accord]

On 27/09/2021 at 14:39, Nearholmer said:

What I’m used to, and having asked my other half the same applies at here workplace, is:

 

- line manager being responsible for recruitment, development, appraisals, pay, rations and discipline, but not day to day direction.

 

- project manager having day-to-day direction of a team of specialists drawn from various disciplines.

 

 

The problem in many head offices today is that about 20 people (all with nonsensical job titles) now undertake tasks which only previously required those two 2 individuals, with the net result that even less gets done than before, over a much longer timescale and costing even more.

That's certainly true (and then some) in the circus that is our HQ - it began the steady descent into what can only be described as full bodied farce about 15 years ago.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Bon Accord

[Michael Hodgson]

51 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

I had in my possession (never having to use it) a manual paper tape punch for correcting paper tape machine instructions.

 

It was a substantial punch and machined, diecast metal die with an alignment nub (for the tape) and a hinged cover to align the punch, which was attached by a chain - like you used to find for the ball point pens at a bank.

 

Used one of those too, but not very often fortunately.

[kevinlms]

20 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I take it then that you would have approved my French colleague's claim for a lady's "entertainment"?

Coincidentally the boss who turned him down happened also to be called Bernard.

 

As things turned out, it would have been better had we fired that Frenchman since a few years later he ran off to Marseille after embezzling $100,000 as his salary proved insufficient to fund his wives and mistresses!  Last I heard of him he had been seen driving a cab in Paris.  Senior management decided not to prosecute him in order to avoid adverse publicity.

 

 

Ah yes, claims for injury during 'work' time!

 

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/public-servant-misses-out-on-sex-compo-after-motel-injury/news-story/9d4e6ce0ac19b2aeda55e9e1c625cc74

[Dava]

The Human Resource Management profession has a lot to answer for, sometimes known wryly as ‘Human Remains’.

 

The Director of Human Resources on the Board was sometimes referred to as ‘Big hat, no cattle’!

 

I’m now off to ask my Direct Reports to do their objectives in what is described as the New World of Work (NWOW).

 

Dava

[TheQ]

Punched paper tape / punched cards we had sticky back blank labels, to cover the holes, but they often covered  holes you wanted to keep, so you had to re-punch them as well.. I know the systems that used the paper tapes were in use till the early 1990's. Those systems had the punch bolted down on a desk, so after paper repairs or labels to cover mistakes you could use two hands to get alignment correct.

 

Personnel was always known as the anti personnel department,  HR? well the R as in Resource says everything..

 

We, as field service for GEC Marconi had lower limits on the road, for expenses, than those who only went out occasionally. To the extent we couldn't afford to stay in the hotels others did.

Everything had to be receipted and itemised, against the 12 digit task number, which was fun if you went out on more than one task.

They even phoned up a chinese takeaway to check if I'd had alcohol with a meal. (They wouldn't pay for alcohol). That Chinese takeaway, like most, didn't have a drinks license..

[hayfield]

I seem to remember in the 70's or 80's when things were a bit tight, some supervisory staff received the title of Manager rather than a pay increase. In practice it meant nothing other than massage someone's ego. I was of the opinion I did not mind what the job title was as long as I got paid more

 

Now the title of Manager or director means little. I worked for a national where there were at least 100 or more employees with the title of director. All but a hand full were of the status of what I would call a company director

 

What makes me laugh is the jumped up job titles many (usually public servants ) call themselves. When did head masters become Operational Directors or some other supposedly grand title

 

My wife said things went very wrong when the Personnel department to Human recourses. She is adamant she is not a recourse like a packet of staples, but a person who works for the business.

 

Jobsworth's with inflated egos are taking over the world, I just laugh at anyone with an inflated job title.  

[hayfield]

58 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Ah yes, claims for injury during 'work' time!

 

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/public-servant-misses-out-on-sex-compo-after-motel-injury/news-story/9d4e6ce0ac19b2aeda55e9e1c625cc74

 

Priceless, she should be sacked for misconduct if she was doing such activities whilst working on her employers time

[TheQ]

Personally I think there should be legal definitions of job titles, backed by law.

Especially in technical jobs, there are too many out there with a weeks training calling themselves enginneers, whereas me, with a degree and 40+ years experience gets called a technician.

[black and decker boy]

We have an Inclusion Manager (output seems to consist of social media clippings) and a Customer Experience Manager (output yet to be determined).

my client has suggested we need a social activity manager (clients like jollies)

 

we have a back office team of 40 supporting a frontline team of 10 in my ‘line’ and 100 supply chain but that is what my client demands, expects & pays for (ultimately my front line team will swell to 200 and supply chain to 700-800 or so).

[Fat Controller]

I remember the pay freeze (government-imposed) of the early/ mid 1970s. My father was working as a draughtsman with British Steel at the time, and changed job-title, and pay-grade, about four times in a year.

The place where I worked had a different tactic, at least for hourly-paid people like myself. There was an hourly rate of about £1 per hour, and then an extra sum for punctuality and attendance, which brought my weekly pay to about £100 with overtime. A late-running coke train to the smelter at Avonmouth, which blocked the crossing at Smoke Lane, cost me about £20, as it led to the only time I was ever late!

[Kickstart]

9 hours ago, Bon Accord said:

 

The problem in many head offices today is that about 20 people (all with nonsensical job titles) now undertake tasks which only previously required those two 2 individuals, with the net result that even less gets done than before, over a much longer timescale and costing even more.

That's certainly true (and then some) in the circus that is our HQ - it began the steady descent into what can only be described as full bodied farce about 15 years ago.

 

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, TheQ said:

Personally I think there should be legal definitions of job titles, backed by law.

Especially in technical jobs, there are too many out there with a weeks training calling themselves enginneers, whereas me, with a degree and 40+ years experience gets called a technician.

But if you were called an engineer, your assistant would still be called the oily rag.  But that's very much a British attitude.

Engineer is seen on the Continent as a professional title and in formal correspondence it is usual to prefix your name with Ing. is the same way as you would address a doctor as Dr.