Liverpool Overhead Railway - Building Judith Edges "Modernised" Stock in P4

[Down_Under]

The Liverpool Overhead and associated dock railway has always fascinated me, seeing bits of it left stuck in walls or imbedded in the street was always worth the detour along the dock road travelling back from Liverpool to Southport when I was growing up in the 80's and 90's. Eventually I grew up, discovered the Judith Edge kit and bought one

 

There is a link to the surviving modernised center car here which for a while was housed at Steamport Southport amongst the grime and decay of the ex-LNWR shed before it was lost to ASDA. 

 

The kit - what you get

- It is pretty basic - the body sides, cast resin roof, simple fold up bogies and some resin cosmetic bogie sides. 

- scale drawings

 

It is up to the builder to scavenge bits and pieces to build up the underframe. Before I started I spent a fair bit of time doing some research on google and I recommend a copy of the Liverpool Overhead Railway by C.E. Box. It is a good starting point. From this I drew up some drawings of the underframe layout. It is also worth noting that the rebuilt units were done over time and are all subtly different - a photo is a must. 

 

To power the unit, a 28mm WB motor bogie is required, the type and method upto the builder. With the abundance of micro motors, belt and gears available these days, I thought about axle hung units a' la the prototype. My musings can be and Mk1 version can be found here  - more on this later. 

 

As far as kits go, this is fairly straight forward - it is a simple box with laminated sides. To begin with there is little structural integrity, but as the sides are added, followed by partitions, it becomes fairly solid. I have opted to build a girder style frame for the chassis from 3 x 1.5mm C section brass. I found this massively strengthens the basic chassis, but does act as a bit of a heat sink when attaching the sides. I opted to laminate the sides before attaching to the chassis - I am not sure that this is what Mike had in mind, and I think I would do it the other way round next time.  

 

What went well

- the N/S solders nicely, the parts are nice and crisp

- quick to assemble

- a MDF base with some sort of right - angle to hold the sides is very handy

- front panel is tricky - take your time and it will look OK. 

 

What I would do differently

- Build the sides onto the frame / floor and then laminate

- Attach the grab rails / door handles after the sides are attached 

 

With two others to build I can try a slightly different assembly method. There is still a fair bit of tidy up up to do and a little bit of filling on the front panel, it is only temporary tacked in place at present 

 

More to follow

 

Sides laminated and ready to solder in the doors 

 

The front panel scribed (on inside) and ready to bend. The prototype has subtle rake to the front (they are not straight)

 

Bending complete 

 

Adding the sides > perhaps next time I'll laminate after attaching the sides 

 

Partitions installed 

 

 

Front panel attached - temp tack soldered in place to check alignment - did I get the rake right? 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Down_Under

[Penrhos1920]

Isn’t there a preserved on at the Liverpool museum?  As the worlds smallest scale model railway layout which has the whole of the LOR in 10m or so.

 

 

My phone photo from August this year with Lion / Titfield Thunderbolt in front.

[Marshall5]

11 hours ago, Penrhos1920 said:

Isn’t there a preserved on at the Liverpool museum?  As the worlds smallest scale model railway layout which has the whole of the LOR in 10m or so.

There is - but it is a motor car in original condition whilst Down Under's model is one of the modernized units of which the ex Steamport centre car is the only survivor. Whilst there the vehicle contained a museum dedicated to the LOR and was manned by Charles Box author of the LOR book mentioned above and son of the LOR's last general manager.  What Charlie didn't know about the LOR wasn't worth knowing.

FWIW I worked in the "grime and decay" of the erstwhile Steamport from 1973 to 1988 (including 7 yrs. as a director) an am pretty sure that it was an ex L&Y shed.

Ray.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Marshall5

[Steamport Southport]

I think I only ever went in it once and it was full of signalling equipment and diagrams. Things like colour light signals.

 

I do remember when we had a shunt to get something else out* and it was a case of was it going to fall off the bogies!

 

*It might have been Peckett No5 when it was being returned to steam and was ISTR right at the end of the shed road.

 

 

Jason

[Down_Under]

23 hours ago, Marshall5 said:

There is - but it is a motor car in original condition whilst Down Under's model is one of the modernized units of which the ex Steamport centre car is the only survivor. Whilst there the vehicle contained a museum dedicated to the LOR and was manned by Charles Box author of the LOR book mentioned above and son of the LOR's last general manager.  What Charlie didn't know about the LOR wasn't worth knowing.

FWIW I worked in the "grime and decay" of the erstwhile Steamport from 1973 to 1988 (including 7 yrs. as a director) an am pretty sure that it was an ex L&Y shed.

Ray.

 

Ray thanks for the correction. My first visit to Steamport was in 1996. At that time the old coal yards and overflow excursion platforms were still there, pacers nodding past every hour or so on the way to Wigan Wallgate. I vividly remember being allowed up on the footplate on a small blue industrial steam loco while it went up and down the yard and pulling levers in the signal box. The rusting ex-barry hulk out the back. Looking back it is a shame that is was allowed to be bowled over after all the work that had been put into it. 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Down_Under

[Marshall5]

To be honest, by 1996, Steamport was on its last legs and it was a pity that you didn't see it a few years earlier.  Faced with having to spend a huge amount on the life expired shed roof combined with falling gate receipts we had little choice but to accept a most generous offer from a property developer and relocate to Preston Docklands. It was a shame to lose the last L&Y steam shed but, looking back, it was probably the best thing we ever did. Re-establishing ourselves as Ribble Steam Railway https://ribblesteam.org.uk/ with modern facilities and a regular income from operating  both passenger trains and commercial freight it has been a resounding success.  Looking forward to seeing your finished LOR train.

Cheers,

Ray.

[Barry O]

Are you going to use the JudithEdge etches for the LOR structureas well?

 

Baz

[Down_Under]

2 hours ago, Barry O said:

Are you going to use the JudithEdge etches for the LOR structureas well?

 

Baz

Sure am Baz. I got a good deal on EBay a while back for some partially built examples, that also included some unbuilt sections. Mike kindly supplied the drawings so that I can figure out the assembly of the remaining b

pieces.
 

Should manage a bit more this evening 

[Down_Under]

While I have a think about how to fill the slight gap between the can front panel and body side, without unsoldering everything (low melt + heat sink?). I started on the underframe.

 

The Undergubbins- Details are sketchy and most photos are just a black shadow. But that said, there needs to be a air brake actuation cylinder, some push rods, air receiver queen posts and truss rods. Also noted in some images are some square transformer like boxes at one end. The LOR are all air braked, having a large reservoir that stored the air for the brake system, enough for several trips. This was charged at the end of a run by external sources.  
 

The only image of the layout is one that appears in CE Box’s book of one of the very first units. The units did and where modified over the years, so this is at best a guide, which is what I have used. For example, is the large air reservoir under both driving motor units or just one end? If anyone has any pictures, please post or send me a PM! 

For the air reservoirs, I started with 7mm OD brass tube that is 35mm in length. 10thou (0.25mm) brass strip for strapping. Queen posts laminated from 0.4mm brass scrap etch and fashioned to 34mm x 3mm x 1.2mm.

 

 

[Michael Edge]

We do some of the underframe gubbins for the other LOR kit, the 40ft motor coach stock. This was actually designed as a kit, the rebuilds were done a long time ago, before we started the kit business which is why they are a bit basic. Very little of this stuff is really visible, especially when running on the overhead. There are some drawings of LOR stock in the NRM collection (not the rebuilds though - apart from one sketch), they aren't all consistent with each other or the GA in the books, it's all a bit of a minefield.

The rebuilds were done at Seaforth, one train at a time, I don't think any two were exactly alike,possibly they just made it uo as they went along. Incidentally the scousers referred to these rebuilt trains as "streamliners".....