HGV Training

[Ian J.]

As my current skillset is dying a slow death (Microsoft Access development and programming) and I can't afford to take a long time out to learn new languages that don't pay enough, I'm looking at changing career. Right now, the idea of doing HGV driving appeals, if only because it might be a bit easier to get going with it.

 

Can anyone advise me on a suitable course of action to get an HGV licence? I gather there are also other elements required, such as CPC (?)

 

I've looked online, but as expected there are lots of websites offering stuff, and not enough that help sort 'wheat from chaff'.

 

Two factors to consider: I'm already 52 years old, and I have a back condition that while not disabling, needs to be kept care of. Would that fail a medical?

 

TIA

 

I'm now not considering this job as there is a factor with my autism issue that pretty much makes it painful to consider even doing.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Ian J.
Reassessment of Situation

[BrushVeteran]

What about bus driving?

With most reputable bus operators you get paid whilst you are training and the conditions are probably a lot kinder to your back problem. Modern buses are very easy to drive and depending on where you are the routes are well regulated and suited to the vehicles you are expected to drive. I did it regularly for over 35 years of my employment of 41 years with the same bus company and I still miss the comradarie.

There appear to be a lot of bus driving opportunities at this present time.

[Andy Hayter]

Cannot help with the training but on the issue of your back problem; you would almost certainly pass the medical if that is the only issue, however you need to be aware that an HGV drivers' job is a lot more than sitting in a cab and driving through the traffic jams.

 

You will be required to do basic maintenance while on the road which might include crawling under or into the truck engine area.

Similarly you will have to climb up and down to make connections to an articulated unit.

You the driver are responsible for ensuring the safety of the load.  This can require climbing up and around the load to strap it down.

For the loading operation you may need to lift out stanchions to allow loading and replace them afterward (side loaded TILT trailer).  

 

In short, HGV driving can be at times quite a physical activity and is probably not conducive to those with a bad back - like you (and me).

 

The bus driver suggestion may not be a bad one.

[PMP]

A family friend looked at this pre C19/brexit. They spoke to a local well respected, professional removals company (we used them and hired vans from them), which suggested these chaps for training. They send their people there.

https://www.denbytransport.co.uk/training_services/about/lgv_training
 

Whilst you might not be local an email query might get you some of the answers you’re after, and possibly other training organisations details local to you.

Edited October 22, 2021 by PMP

[AndrewC]

I'll second the idea of bus over hgv. A good friend used to drive but injured his back & hip. He had difficulty in getting into the cab, hooking up the trailer, and even basic inspections. He's doing school bus runs now. Sleeps in his own bed every night, no aggro, and no pain while working. 

[laurenceb]

It depends on how well Ian copes with dealing with people .I know that he has a similar problem to mine

[alastairq]

19 minutes ago, laurenceb said:

It depends on how well Ian copes with dealing with people .I know that he has a similar problem to mine

 A sad day when conductors disappeared?

[They would 'protect' the drivers from the worst of the excesses of dealing with the public]

 

I, too, would suggest bus driving.

Having done both, I wouldn't like to return to waggoning at my present age, or physical state.

 

However, if one thinks one would be comfortable with doing shop work, then bus driving will to an extent be fine. Not a great deal of public interaction is required [and one could always be a grumpy bus driver?]

I spent 25 years of my 50 years in the workplace, driving buses.  With the occasional lorrying  mixed in.

Then I became an Instructor, training young folk to pass Cat C, C+E, D, etc licences. ALso instructing on other related skills, for the MoD.  For 20 years.

A quite physical job in itself.....but at least with bus driving, as has been noted above, one gets to go home every night !

Avoid coach driving, is my advice.  it's a different story to bus driving.

 

The problem with any vocational driving is that, each and every different job brings differences.

These centre around training for specific types of LGV, or bus.

In the haulage industry there is a huge variety of 'specialisms'......the type of drivng work involved...

For example, in simple terms, driving a bulk carrying LGV will involve different skills to driving a fuel tanker, or a curtainsider for  Stobart [read, Tesco?], or  a tipper.  

The licence is one aspect.....the type of lorry one works with is entrely another matter!

 

What about applying & training to become a train driver?  I often come across recruitment adverts for our local train operators......

[Ian J.]

Due to my autism issue, people contact needs to be kept to a minimum (none if at all possible) so any kind of bus driving is out, but thanks for the suggestion.

[airnimal]

Before you spend any money on training I would ask as many HGV drivers as you can what is the job is  like and the problems involved. I did it for a short period of time in the 1980's and the hassle was unbelievable. Perhaps I was unlucky but I got out of it as soon as I could. I did try again in 2004 but there was new issues to contend with with more problems so I went back to engineering.

Edited October 22, 2021 by airnimal

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, Ian J. said:

As my current skillset is dying a slow death (Microsoft Access development and programming) and I can't afford to take a long time out to learn new languages that don't pay enough, I'm looking at changing career. Right now, the idea of doing HGV driving appeals, if only because it might be a bit easier to get going with it.

 

Can anyone advise me on a suitable course of action to get an HGV licence? I gather there are also other elements required, such as CPC (?)

 

I've looked online, but as expected there are lots of websites offering stuff, and not enough that help sort 'wheat from chaff'.

 

Two factors to consider: I'm already 52 years old, and I have a back condition that while not disabling, needs to be kept care of. Would that fail a medical?

 

TIA

With a back condition and being used to the creature comforts of office/home based working, are you sure you'd want to step into HGV driving, long stints of driving, unsocial hours, pressure to get deliveries no matter what the road conditions and using Motorway services for food/showering etc.  I'm not saying don't think about it, but I couldn't imagine myself going from doing SQL to being a lorry driver, it's a massive shift.  I also note your comments on Autism, whilst you may find that there are less people to have to converse with and that suits you, you might find the banter among the drivers difficult to contend with as well.  This is coming from someone who enjoys the isolation that working from home and Covid has brought me.  If you're not comfortable with all the strangers that being a bus driver would bring, then imagine driving a couple of hundred miles to deliver something and having to deal with people you've never met whilst loading/unloading, then driving another 200 miles and seeing more strangers.

 

Have you considered shifting to SQL, that's what I did back in 2002 never looked back and MS Office is like another alien world to me now.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

 I also note your comments on Autism, whilst you may find that there are less people to have to converse with and that suits you, you might find the banter among the drivers difficult to contend with as well.  This is coming from someone who enjoys the isolation that working from home and Covid has brought me.  If you're not comfortable with all the strangers that being a bus driver would bring, then imagine driving a couple of hundred miles to deliver something and having to deal with people you've never met whilst loading/unloading, then driving another 200 miles and seeing more strangers.

 

200 miles between strangers sounds ok

I imagine people at drops will be mostly talking about some variation of 'where's my stuff?'  so you won't have go too far off-piste.

On a bus people people people people people people people people gets wearing.

[woodenhead]

17 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

200 miles between strangers sounds ok

I imagine people at drops will be mostly talking about some variation of 'where's my stuff?'  so you won't have go too far off-piste.

On a bus people people people people people people people people gets wearing.

It's when blokes start making small-talk - football, cricket etc that it gets awkward, reminds me of the IT crowd where they end up having to learn how to behave and talk with football fans.

 

Mind for me I soon cut the conversation down - Stranger: "Did you see the match?" Me: "No!" or Stranger: "What team do you support?" Me: "I don't".  Recently ended up in a conversation about IT Scrum Masters instead, which was an unexpected tangent from the gas engineer after I had shut down his attempts to open football talk.  

[AndrewC]

4 hours ago, Ian J. said:

As my current skillset is dying a slow death (Microsoft Access development and programming) and I can't afford to take a long time out to learn new languages that don't pay enough, I'm looking at changing career. Right now, the idea of doing HGV driving appeals, if only because it might be a bit easier to get going with it.

 

You might want to take a look at ServiceNow. There is a critical shortage of people with skills in that platform. Some companies are even cross training IT people from other disciplines. We just hired a SAP specialist. SN also have a learning portal with loads of free training & micro-certifications. Basically it is a big-ass cloud platform on top of a MySQL backend. 

[alastairq]

Autism, and buses, both are something close to my heart. [My son is high functioning autistic..mostly Aspergers, but other stuff mixed in]

 

Today's buses are quite different to when I did the job, where a hairy backside was the prerequisite for a bus driver.

The modern bus driver is perforce quite isolated from the great unwashed sitting behind. 

Screens, etc, for starters.

Plus, it is forbidden for Joe[or Jolene] to go up front & chat with the driver whilst the bus is moving, so, in general, conversation isn't something I [for one] ever really indulged in, whilst driving. If someone did come to the front  to ask something, it was easy enough to ignore them with the obvious excuse of, you're driving! [Therefore don't like distractions]   

Often it's just, questions & answers-type of intercourse.

So, any verbal interaction is confined to that involved in fair paying [the prevalence of passes makes that even less of a hazard]...maybe the odd timetable question, but otherwise, they get on, they tell you where they want to go, you tell them how much, all through a screen so one can, legitimately, simply switch them off.....and get on with the driving.

In my day, there rarely was a screen,so one could actually smell the great unwashed!

 

The fact one simply turns to address the steering wheel to get things moving is enough to 'bring down the shutters' on any interaction.  I often used to sidle off into a dream world once chugging along the highway.

The most common event that happened to me was when I would ask myself, ''was someone standing at that last bus stop?''  Such could be my dream-like state.

Where most of the 'interaction' occurs is likely in the depot itself, with other co-workers. Of course, this can happen with any outside job!

[Ian J.]

The biggest issue I have with people is dealing with their infinitely various and fragile emotional states. I only have one way of dealing with anyone and that's default polite and not engaged with them, and that doesn't work when someone is feeling angry, or has had any amount of alcohol to drink. Both get on to public transport very regularly and have to be dealt with effectively. That's just not something I can do.

 

As far as other I.T. work is concerned, I just don't have the energy to learn other languages while doing another job at the same time, I'm too old. Learning on the job is fine, but it would still need to pay properly. I have no savings left after this pandemic and having had my hours reduced and no pay increase for four years. However, I am fed up with the 'move fast, break things' culture in software. I really want to leave it behind.

[37114]

I can't add too much to the above other than the fact that a number of bus drivers are getting woo'ed by the high pay rates on offer to drive HGVs so bus drivers are short in demand, also many of the big bus companies seem better geared up to train new drivers than the large HGV operators are. Getting an HGV licence can cost you around £3k so you need to be sure it is for you..

[PMP]

https://www.bravestarts.com
 

These people might be able to help with a new career/job choice. 

[peanuts]

from memory from when i attempted my class 2 licence several tears ago you can no longer go direct to class 1 have to do class 2 first 

you will need to apply for the class 2 provisional part of your licence to be activated this is valid for two years ; yes you will need a medical is mainly looking at eyesight (spare pare of glasses mandatory if you need them for driving ) diabetes and other debilitataing conditions typicaly cost around 120 quid for medical 

didgital tachograph card 35 quid 

two blocks of driver cpc the others are deemed to have been covered by your test and training 70 quid each 

lessons + test typicaly around 0ne to oneand half grand .

once you have completed all that you need to find someone who will employ you as a new starter most want two years experiance so you get forced down the agency route 

 do you have the 7.5t entitlement on your licence ?  may be an option as would only need cpc (35hrs) and digicard to get started and see if you enjoy it ?

good luck if you choose to give it a go have enjoyed some companys but hated others 

[alastairq]

Class 2? No such driving licence [in the UK]

Neither is there a so-called 'class 1' driving licence. [It's industry boswellox....speaking as a one-time DSA-Registered LGV instructor, employed by the MoD]

The LGV vocational categories are, Cat C, and Cat C+E. [& CAt D, & Cat D+E]

 

C+E has never been able to be undertaken before Cat C has been passed.

Cat C is for a LGV [over 7.5 tonnes MAM]

Cat C+E is for a LGV plus trailer.

 

Same rule applies for D+E, which cannot be taken before Cat D is passed.  [Which is for a PCV plus trailer]

C+E training takes but a couple of days in my experience, before test. Given that the candidate has already met the required standard on their Cat C test.

That just leaves the manoeuver of the trailer, coupling & uncoupling [safely] and some extra familaristion on a road drive, to get their heads around the increased length, differing road positions, etc. Easy Peasy, as they say.

 

Cat C covers an LGV regardless of the number of axles it possess.  But to tow any trailer with an LGV requires a Cat C+E.

 

If one passes one Cat C+E test having trained and been tested on, for example, an LGV [Minimum Test Vehicle requirements there too]....with a drawbar trailer [harder to maneuver, turns very much more quickly]]...then one might be advised to obtain familiarisation training with an artic trailer.

Same goes if the C+E test is passed using an artic trailer....one needs to be familiar with manoeuvering a drawbar trailer if a job demands it. Not wise to assume someone familiar with one type of trailer, can manage another type. Even worse if one has to manoeuver a drawbar trailer which has a steering [turntable] front axle.  Few drivers in this country can manage one of those without a lot of practice.. Milk Marque drivers being one such bunch...

Agency work is a good way to practice..but can be a nasty nightmare if taken advantage of.

 

But the thing to remember is, one is acquiring one's licence, not being 'taught to drive'.[which no-one can teach, since there is no ''quality control'' for such an objective.] Without passing the test first, one is going nowhere.....

It would be nice to think that transport companies had comprehensive training  facilities..instructor/assessors, etc  Large bus operators often do...

But, sadly, when driving for an agency, one is pretty much left to one's own devices....without any structured training program to help.

[F-UnitMad]

5 hours ago, Ian J. said:

I have no savings left after this pandemic and having had my hours reduced and no pay increase for four years.

With no savings, how are you going to pay for the training & licences?? - licenses plural, because as said by others you have to pass Cat C before you can pass Cat C+E. The medical includes minimum eyesight standards even for glasses/contacts wearers. If you do pass it you'll need a new one after 5 years until the age of 60, after that the medical is annual. You have to pay for it.

Cat C (basicly rigid trucks, without trailers) work is a lot harder than on Artics (C+E), often multi-drop, unloading goods yourself - a fair bit of physical work. Pay rates will be less than for C+E.

On a lot of artic work the loading/unloading gets done by others - fork lifts, loading bays etc but sitting for hours driving then sitting for hours while being tipped won't do your back much good either. Talking of hours, you'll have to know all about the driver's hours rules - 9 hours is only the limit on actual driving; your shift time can be up to 15 hours a day, twice in a week, and 13 hours the others - and very often will be, hauliers want their pound of flesh. 12 hour shifts will be an average, and a flat hourly pay rate, no overtime rates or suchlike - thank the late Mr Edward Stobart for that one

The hours are totally unsocial - silly-o'clock starts in the morning, or late afternoons on 'nights'.

You'll also be expected to drive whatever the weather, put up with the "must get in front of the truck" mindset of the majority of car drivers, and the abuse they can gesture at you, deliver into some stupidly tight places designed more for horse & cart than a 44t truck, and most importantly be able to reverse on your mirrors, because there isn't a back window to turn & look out of like in a car. Your day can be ruined in an instant by a myriad of circumstances, and don't expect any thanks for doing your job - from anybody, least of all your boss.

 

If that all sounds great, go for it.

 

Jordan, now ex-HGV driver.

 

[Jonboy]

FYI the testing and licensing regime change next month and make it easier to get to driving artics…. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/changes-to-hgv-and-bus-driving-tests-from-autumn-2021

 

Also changes to the weight limits of trailers for class B license holders https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a-trailer-or-caravan-with-a-car-from-autumn-2021

 

(any discussion on the rights and wrongs of these changes probably belong in their own thread or driving standards!  )

 

 

 

[kevinlms]

14 hours ago, Ian J. said:

The biggest issue I have with people is dealing with their infinitely various and fragile emotional states. I only have one way of dealing with anyone and that's default polite and not engaged with them, and that doesn't work when someone is feeling angry, or has had any amount of alcohol to drink. Both get on to public transport very regularly and have to be dealt with effectively. That's just not something I can do.

 

As far as other I.T. work is concerned, I just don't have the energy to learn other languages while doing another job at the same time, I'm too old. Learning on the job is fine, but it would still need to pay properly. I have no savings left after this pandemic and having had my hours reduced and no pay increase for four years. However, I am fed up with the 'move fast, break things' culture in software. I really want to leave it behind.

Not sure that I would find HGV driving relaxing, for from it. It would drive me nuts having people cut in front of me all day long.

OK you might get long periods when you don't have to speak to anyone, but will they be potentially conversations of conflict when you do? Then it becomes something to dread.

 

Take a look on Youtube, plenty of truck driving videos, to perhaps help you decide if that is for you. Some of them are endless swearing at other road users. Maybe they deserve it, but...

[Ian J.]

8 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

With no savings, how are you going to pay for the training & licences??

...

 

I'd have to borrow the money.

 

I can see there are many downsides that people are pointing out to the job. I'm not wedded to doing it, just trying to find out as much as I can. I need to do something else other than my current skillset allows; I can't change skillset within that industry, and don't really want to anyway; and working with people is out.

 

So what else is there?

[alastairq]

1 hour ago, Ian J. said:

So what else is there?

 

I've mentioned it before, but what about the railways? {Seeing as you have an interest anyway?]

[PMP]

1 hour ago, Ian J. said:

 

 

So what else is there?

That’s why I put the bravestart link in my post above. They deal with ‘our’ age groups. An email to them introducing yourself and your predicament may get them pointing you in a suitable direction you/we haven’t thought of. 
 

My daughter did warehouse work this summer. Basically a drone picking and packing stuff. Not much social contact even with co workers as you’re busy all day. Pays not brilliant and you’re definitely regarded as a worker ant, but she got a wedge together for her next Uni year. At the very least a job like that would be a stop gap.