DP1 Deltic tested on freight

[mikesndbs]

Hey everyone

 

Are there any photos out there of Deltic on freight duties?

 

I understand it was tested on fast freight to Liverpool and London?

 

Thanks

 

 

[Metr0Land]

There's a spedific reference to one in the text of this model

 

http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Hall_Royd_Model/Deltic_DP1_1958.html

[roythebus1]

There's been photos of it on the ECML on freight.

[Metr0Land]

Deltic Prototype (3) by Stephen Sparey, on Flickr

 

 

[Pandora]

Do we have any details of the coach behind DELTIC in the photograph? Is it a General Managers inspection coach?

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Pandora said:

Do we have any details of the coach behind DELTIC in the photograph? Is it a General Managers inspection coach?

I believe it's a Dynamometer coach, a vehicle which measures things like tractive effort, horsepower at draw-bar etc. There were several built pre-Nationalisation.

 

[keefer]

From Napier-chronichles:  http://www.napier-chronicles.co.uk/dp1.htm

28/11/1955: "Night-time acceptance trials: From 28/11/55 - 04/12/55 DELTIC began work on alternate nights with an express freight between Edge Hill (19:30) and Camden Town, London, (03:07). The locomotive stabled at Willesden and returned 19:35 to Edge Hill (01:07) being then stabled at Speke."

18/01/1959: Allocated 34B, Hornsey TMD. Initial test runs to York, Leeds, Doncaster and Newcastle and freight train trials to Doncaster

21/03/1959: Loco + Dynamometer Car + 50 loaded 16t minifit coal wagons on tests between Doncaster Mineral Sidings - Ferme Park (possibly the picture posted by Metr0land above).

[Pandora]

Possibly this one numbered  DB999500 (Spencer-Moulton bogies)?

The car lasted until 1974,  working as  Derby  RTC Test Car 2

 

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Pandora

[Great Eastern]

Hi all,

I'm new to RMWeb so I'm not sure if this is the right place to do this but here goes.......(please tell me if there's somewhere better !)

 

DP1

 

I wonder if anyone can help me with this ‘quest’, it concerns DP1 when it was under construction at the Dick Kerr works in Preston.

 I daresay you’ve heard the story about Lord Nelson (the chairman of English Electric, not the nautical one) and his wife Lady Nelson (not Lady Hamilton !) who visited the works and disliked the paint job. Anyway, for anyone who hasn’t heard the story, the most complete one I’ve heard goes like this (briefly).  They commented that the house colours of English Electric; dark green and cream, made it look like a cooker. The person they were talking to (I think the works manager ??) asked what colour they should paint it, Lord Nelson turned to his wife and said that as she was a woman she would know about arty things like this (not very PC !!!).  So she said why don’t you do it in a lovely blue. The works manager, not wanting to get caught out twice said well there’s lots of blues, so she fished about in her handbag and pulled out a powder compact with a Wedgwood blue casing and handed it to him saying here do it like that, so they matched the paint to it.

Anyway my question concerns this original green and cream livery. Back in the 1980’s I found a book in Leicester central library about the Deltics, in it was a photograph of DP1 obviously still under construction taken at an angle from a gantry looking down at so you could see the front and one side, it was black and white but the picture clearly showed a two tone livery. The caption said that it was the house colours of English Electric; dark green and cream. From memory the bottom 2/3rds were in the dark green and the upper 1/3rd  in the cream. The roof doors were still open and it appeared like the engines were yet to be installed, also I think the cab was still being fitted out. There are various photos of DP1 being built, chassis framework, etc, so it should be that there were photos of the paintwork. 

At the time I didn’t realise how important/rare/unique ? this picture was. A few months later when I did, I returned to the library and hunted for it, on several occasions, with various librarians and they were forced to conclude that it had been nicked !!! Unfortunately, I don’t know the title etc of the book ! What I can say is that it was an older book then (I think probably 60’s).  It was LIKE a David and Charles book, ie the format, the look of it, but then some Ian Allen books of the period were too. I think it had Deltic in the title, and I seem to remember it had the Baby Deltics in it too. It’s not the Brian Webb book, as it’s too recent, nor do I think it’s the 1977 English Electric book, unless it was some first edition I’ve not found !  However, what I need to know is if anybody else has seen this photograph reproduced anywhere please?  I should also say that I have, of course, checked every Deltic book/ English Electric book I’ve ever seen since, and I spoke to the NRM, including to the chap who procured the Bachmann DP1 models, (we talked about the possibility of replicating the livery). So far I’ve not even found any reference to the picture. Can anybody help please ?  Many thanks.

GE

[GordonC]

On 05/07/2022 at 13:13, Great Eastern said:

Hi all,

I'm new to RMWeb so I'm not sure if this is the right place to do this but here goes.......(please tell me if there's somewhere better !)

 

DP1

 

I wonder if anyone can help me with this ‘quest’, it concerns DP1 when it was under construction at the Dick Kerr works in Preston.

 I daresay you’ve heard the story about Lord Nelson (the chairman of English Electric, not the nautical one) and his wife Lady Nelson (not Lady Hamilton !) who visited the works and disliked the paint job. Anyway, for anyone who hasn’t heard the story, the most complete one I’ve heard goes like this (briefly).  They commented that the house colours of English Electric; dark green and cream, made it look like a cooker. The person they were talking to (I think the works manager ??) asked what colour they should paint it, Lord Nelson turned to his wife and said that as she was a woman she would know about arty things like this (not very PC !!!).  So she said why don’t you do it in a lovely blue. The works manager, not wanting to get caught out twice said well there’s lots of blues, so she fished about in her handbag and pulled out a powder compact with a Wedgwood blue casing and handed it to him saying here do it like that, so they matched the paint to it.

Anyway my question concerns this original green and cream livery. Back in the 1980’s I found a book in Leicester central library about the Deltics, in it was a photograph of DP1 obviously still under construction taken at an angle from a gantry looking down at so you could see the front and one side, it was black and white but the picture clearly showed a two tone livery. The caption said that it was the house colours of English Electric; dark green and cream. From memory the bottom 2/3rds were in the dark green and the upper 1/3rd  in the cream. The roof doors were still open and it appeared like the engines were yet to be installed, also I think the cab was still being fitted out. There are various photos of DP1 being built, chassis framework, etc, so it should be that there were photos of the paintwork. 

At the time I didn’t realise how important/rare/unique ? this picture was. A few months later when I did, I returned to the library and hunted for it, on several occasions, with various librarians and they were forced to conclude that it had been nicked !!! Unfortunately, I don’t know the title etc of the book ! What I can say is that it was an older book then (I think probably 60’s).  It was LIKE a David and Charles book, ie the format, the look of it, but then some Ian Allen books of the period were too. I think it had Deltic in the title, and I seem to remember it had the Baby Deltics in it too. It’s not the Brian Webb book, as it’s too recent, nor do I think it’s the 1977 English Electric book, unless it was some first edition I’ve not found !  However, what I need to know is if anybody else has seen this photograph reproduced anywhere please?  I should also say that I have, of course, checked every Deltic book/ English Electric book I’ve ever seen since, and I spoke to the NRM, including to the chap who procured the Bachmann DP1 models, (we talked about the possibility of replicating the livery). So far I’ve not even found any reference to the picture. Can anybody help please ?  Many thanks.

GE

 

I've never seen DP1 in anything other than Blue. Rather than the cream being on the bodysides, could it just have been on the roof louvres the way they curve down to the bodyside, if the picture was taken from above, it might look like a 1/3 and 2/3s split. Could the caption have gotten confused between DP1 and the production deltics being two tone green or possibly even DP2 being in all over green? The Deltic Preservation Society might be the people to ask though, I'm sure there will be plenty experts there that will know the class and prototype inside out.

 

Theres a photo of it here apparently nearing completion.

https://twsmedia.co.uk/2019/09/26/deltics-in-retrospect-part-1/

 

 

and this looks like before painting - not much contrast between the bodyside beading and the rest of the bodyside

 

and lurking in the background here

http://www.whamart.co.uk/photogallery/preston1955_1.htm

 

 

or maybe see if you can find where its been painted and ask if any traces of previous paint colours had been found when rubbing it down.

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by GordonC

['CHARD]

Latecomer to this thread; and not really able to add much other than a secondhand observation passed down by my late father, who lived in Wavertree in the fifties backing on to the main line, a stones-throw away from the yards at Edge Hill. 

 

He used to regale me with descriptions of early diesels passing above and behind the back yard, including 10000/ 01 and DELTIC, in its fabulous Wedgwood blue.  He described the early appearances of DELTIC as hauling a variety of trains, because (as an engineer, with no more than a passing interest in trains) he assumed that it was being tested and put through its paces as the only one of its kind. So pleased he shared these reminiscences all those decades later! 

[Great Eastern]

Hi GordonC

Thanks for the reply, the picture I saw was taken from a vantage point something like your first photo but much closer. It didn't appear to have the side beading or nose whiskers. There was a dramatic  contrast between the two colours, and the cream extended down the side. Is your second photo painting or repainting, as I daresay you know it was painted  more than once. I was once told that it was taken back to bare metal prior to repaint for preservation, so the green and cream may well have been lost then. I have tried emailing various Deltic groups in past years without success, (hence RMweb) however it may be worth another try.

Thanks for your interest, I've now got a page for this under prototype questions

GE

[GordonC]

2 minutes ago, Great Eastern said:

Hi GordonC

Thanks for the reply, the picture I saw was taken from a vantage point something like your first photo but much closer. It didn't appear to have the side beading or nose whiskers. There was a dramatic  contrast between the two colours, and the cream extended down the side. Is your second photo painting or repainting, as I daresay you know it was painted  more than once. I was once told that it was taken back to bare metal prior to repaint for preservation, so the green and cream may well have been lost then. I have tried emailing various Deltic groups in past years without success, (hence RMweb) however it may be worth another try.

Thanks for your interest, I've now got a page for this under prototype questions

GE

 

I dont know any more than the captions there, but the repainting one has a colour version in the comments which looks like the same place from the pipes in the wall on the background and is mentioned as being Strand Road, Preston so I'm sure that will be during construction before it was released for traffic. Yes, I'm sure it will have been repainted a few times, but sometimes traces of previous paint layers do get uncovered in places even though its mostly back to bare metal

[Great Eastern]

Is Strand Rd. the Dick Kerr works address?

If there are any traces of paint, that will show the dividing line, is that what you meant ?

Thanks,

GE

[Great Eastern]

Thanks Chard,

Real accounts and personal knowledge are so important in historical research. As you say it's good that he was able to share it with you.

GE