Leiston Works Railway

[Brian Emeney]

Does anyone know if the works railway at Garrett & Sons in Leiston, Suffolk had a connection to main line? I'm thinking about a layout based on the works and the extensive works railway with its unusual locos. I've read a couple of books and peered at old maps until my eyes bleed but still can't make out if there was a connection between the private and public lines...

 

Any help greatly appreciated!

[Johann Marsbar]

Yes it was connected to the main line and a group is currently relaying track on part of it.

Have a look at..   http://lwr.org.uk/

[Will Crompton]

Just reading your post over coffee and decided to try a google image search for Garrett and Sons and came up with a couple of possibly helpful results. The first is a picture of the exterior of the works showing a gated railway suggesting a main line connection. Apologies if you have already seen them.

https://www.jbarchive.co.uk/sf-1489---tea-time-at-garrett--sons-works-leiston-suffolk-c1912-50503-p.asp

 

Secondly a Wikipedia entry about the works railway which says it was connected to the Aldburgh branch of the GER.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leiston_Works_Railway

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Will Crompton
typo

[Johann Marsbar]

This was the state of the relaying work 2 years ago.....

 

 

...but another track panel or two has been put down since then.  Still goes from nowhere to nowhere though - not helped by an apparent lack of access through a pub garden (where the fence can be seen in the background) that has "claimed" the trackbed since the line closed.....

 

[Nick Holliday]

There are a lot of interesting aerial views on the Britain From Above website, some dating back to 1920.

 

[Dava]

There are some photos in the book ‘Garretts of Leiston” I have a copy.

 

Dava

[sir douglas]

Laurie's Ruston (ex McApline's) has run on this bit of track a few years ago

[Michael Crofts]

I grew up at Theberton and went to school in Leiston between 1958 and 1969, going over the GER and Works Railway crossings each day (I came off my Lambretta scooter on the GER crossing on an icy January morning in 1967).

 

There wasn't just a connection between the works railways and the Great Eastern/British Railways lies. Within the station yard you'd have struggled to find any demarcation in the working arrangements because the Garrett locomotives operated over most of the track south of the platform road.

 

To understand how Garrett's railways worked the starting point is that there were two distinct works railways, first the track from the Great Eastern station south (downhill) to the original Garrett works around which the town grew up, which became known as the Town Works, Old Works, or Bottom Works. This is the line which is being restored now. Later came the tracks around and into the New Works or Top Works on the south side of the station. When I lived there the names were Old Works and New Works. At that time Garretts were still very much in business and my Grammar School had an excellent metalwork shop, and metalwork master Mr. Molyneux, because it was expected that some of the pupils would become apprentices at Garretts. Sadly this was a folorn hope by the time my cohort passed through, and Garretts themselves were by then desperately clutching at straws to stay afloat. At one stage they tried washing machines, and then greenhouses. Very sad.

 

Of the two 25 inch maps on the NLS site the 1903/4 edition is clearer and shows the layout before the New Works was built.

 

The 1925 edition shows the New Works but the best online image of this is not on the NLS site, it's on the Leiston Works Railway site, linked here:

http://lwr.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Long-Shop-Leiston_0001-1.jpg

None of the pictures on the LWR site show the actual connections between the works railways and the main line clearly. 

 

The image which Will Crompton linked shows the bottom level crossing, at the entrance to the old works, looking south.

 

Anyone who does an online search will find Casserley's set but it is worth mentioning because it is without doubt the best set of pictures of the works railways available online. However it doesn't show the connection to the main line or any traffic, just light engine working, and I suspect Sirapite might have been put in steam just for the Casserley visit. By 1958, 2 years after these pictures were taken, the railway was not used very much. I only saw Sirapite in steam once.

https://www.ipswich-lettering.co.uk/aldeburghbranch.html

 

The next image is looking east and I think the connection to the Works railway is the line in the foreground.

https://railphotoprints.uk/p770072476/hC528F1BD#hc528f1bd

 

Here's the same view from further back (NB it's an ebay offer so may not be there if anyone digs into this thread in the future):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leiston-Railway-Station-Photo-Saxmundham-Aldeburgh-Great-Eastern-Railway-2-/252115099329

 

Here's a nice colourised view looking in that direction:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10158571246846871&set=p.10158571246846871&type=3

 

Looking from the other direction is this ebay offer:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252873370007?hash=item3ae06d6997:g:UAAAAOSwvihY9HPm

 

But better still is this one. It looks north west, from the level crossing of the line to the old works, and shows how that line entered the station yard.

https://www.facebook.com/Leiston-Works-Railway-704647416303177/photos/pcb.3544988238935733/3544988098935747/

 

If anyone is modelling Leiston and has the patience to navigate facebook there are many more pictures on the Leiston Works Railway pages. In particular, look for the photographer Edward Lawrence.

 

I knew the railway best when it was being worked by the Battery Electric loco (from which I was given the works plate and the hand-operated klaxon hooter when it was being scrapped). Sadly I can't put my hands on my photos at the moment.

 

What I don't know is how the operation was managed. I suspect that the GER and then British Railways maintained all the tracks within Leiston station, with Garretts being responsible only for the line down to the Town Works and the sidings on their own land. The Garrett locomotives must have been licensed to run on the main line tracks.... or they just did it and nobody worried about it. Were they "plated" for main line use? I don't recollect seeing any such plate on the battery loco. I would like to know what the arrangements actually were. Here's a picture I bought years ago (it's also on the LWR site) showing Sirapite shunting on British Railways track (the line to the Town Works is the tiny bit visible in the bottom right hand corner):-

 

Apologies if anyone thinks I have gone overboard with this.

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Michael Crofts
Corrected photographer, Edward Lawrence not Nicholls

[Michael Crofts]

I was thinking about the question of who maintained the track at Leiston and decided to look for the signalbox diagram. I had the last one from Leiston 'box but lost it due to naivety and misplaced trust back in the late '70s. Anyway, I found this straight away on Flickr, and I think it shows the limits of BR ownership of the tracks at the time it was drawn... but I can't see a date. Image from Owen Stratford.

 

[Michael Crofts]

My final post in this topic for the foreseeable future - I have uploaded my snapshots of the Aldeburgh branch to my Flickr account, including a set of snaps of the Richard Garrett battery electric loco. 

Album here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/119194913@N05/albums/72177720295447338

 

[Johann Marsbar]

4 minutes ago, Michael Crofts said:

My final post in this topic for the foreseeable future - I have uploaded my snapshots of the Aldeburgh branch to my Flickr account, including a set of snaps of the Richard Garrett battery electric loco. 

Album here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/119194913@N05/albums/72177720295447338

 

 

Shame that loco didn't survive.

[Brian Emeney]

That signal box diagram is great, thanks Michael!

 

[NS Peak]

Check out The Aldeburgh Branch by Peter Paye published by Oakwood Press ISBN 9780853617235

 

or

 

Middleton Press Branch Lines to Felixstowe and Aldeburgh by Richard Anderson and Graham Kenworthy ISBN 9871904474203

 

both cover the Garrett works in Leiston very well sowing the connection to the works at the station and track plans and history of traffic etc.  Peter Paye’s is the more comprehensive but both are a great source of inspiration 

[Ben B]

It's been interesting following the development of this scheme, ever since seeing it featured on the Lawries Mechanical Marvels Youtube channel.  It's nice seeing the progress, and it's obviously somewhere safe enough that they're not worried about the scrap-metal fairies turning up in the middle of the night to pinch the rails!  It's an atmospheric little scene, the railway squeezing past the back gardens, not unlike the atmosphere of the old 'Town' section of the Welshpool and Llanfair.

 

Whilst I love it, and think it would be a great little add-on for the museum, the cynic in me wonders just how much they'd be able to achieve with it.  As mentioned in one of the posts above, there does seem to be an issue with the proximity of the pub to the trackbed and the line running through their grounds, though the website mentions that they're trying to get permission for access.  And they must have some very understanding neighbours too!  Personally I'd love a railway at the end of the garden, though I don't know how happy I'd be if it was washing day and a steam loco trundled past every hour.

 

I wonder how they'll get access for their rolling stock?  According to the website, they've got the original steam shunter and have purchased an LMS brake van.  As an out-and-back attraction from the museum, it would be great, but in this day and age would they get permission to re-install the level crossing over the road (Main St.) from the museum site to the alleway with the track?  OK so people could be encouraged to walk over the road to a little platform from the museum, but then there's the problem of where to store the rolling stock... towards the old exchange yard is an even busier bit of road that the steam line would need to cross on an angle, over a road junction adjacent to another level crossing, albeit one that looks effectively mothballed), and no room for a loco shed.  Would a crossing on Main St. be allowed if it was only for occasional (eg twice a day) light engine moves between the museum and the running line, rather than public passenger services?  Or would there be some equivalent to 'grandfathers rights' as it was an industrial concern, that would allow the re-installation of the crossing?  Are the original rails still there under the tarmac (bits of the track seem to be dotted around the course of the branch), which would allow some legal wiggle-room for reopening?  A modern crossing with at the least lights, if not full barriers, would (I'd have thought) be prohibitively expensive.

 

Though it's nice to think of a reopened passenger service on the Sizewell branch tying-in with a heritage shuttle train to the museum...

 

I might be overthinking this, but I've been fighting temptation for a while to build an urban village tramway layout (as a heritage operation set in the present day) since stumbling over the Leiston Works line, and also visiting the remains of the Burneside Tramway in Cumbria,  so I'm trying to come up with the practicalities

[Johann Marsbar]

The former works loco, "Sirapite", is owned by the Long Shop Museum - which is actually nothing oficially to do with the "Leiston Works Railway" reinstatement group. It lives in a shed on the Museum site......

 

 

 

....and has a short length of track to run on there  - basically in part of the Museum car park.  This location is at a lot higher level than where the works railway is being restored and the track is at right angles to where the tracks entered the works. The "Long Shop" itself is between the two areas and my guess is that there is no physical way of joining the two areas, given that a lot of what was the Works has been built on.

If the Works Railway group manage to come to some arrangement to get access into what is now the pub beer garden, that at least puts them the other side of Saxmundham Road to the Long Shop Museums entrance.

I have my doubts whether a level crossing would be alowed to gain rail access into the Museums yard, and if it was, it will cost a lot of £££.  Getting beyond the end of the private right of way at the Buller Road/Station Road (B1122) junction is impossible, as apart from level crossings needing to be reinstated on both roads, the former route into the station yard is obstructed by at least one building.....

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2095819,1.5746543,3a,75y,332.82h,76.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI9oVxI6f-Sw0U1neVekRpg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

I'm afraid I look at the whole project and just ask myself "Why?"......

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Johann Marsbar
reloaded photo

[Ben B]

2 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

The former works loco, "Sirapite", is actually owned by the Long Shop Museum - which is actually nothing oficially to do with the "Leiston Works Railway" reinstatement group. It lives in a shed on the Museum site......

 

 

....and has a short length of track to run on there  - basically in part of the Museum car park.  This location is at a lot higher level than where the works railway is being restored and the track is at right angles to where the tracks entered the works. The "Long Shop" itself is between the two areas and my guess is that there is no physical way of joining the two areas, given that a lot of what was the Works has been built on.

If the Works Railway group manage to come to some arrangement to get access into what is now the pub beer garden, that at least puts them the other side of Saxmundham Road to the Long Shop Museums entrance.

I have my doubts whether a level crossing would be alowed to gain rail access into the Museums yard, and if it was, it will cost a lot of £££.  Getting beyond the end of the private right of way at the Buller Road/Station Road (B1122) junction is impossible, as apart from level crossings needing to be reinstated on both roads, the former route into the station yard is obstructed by at least one building.....

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2095819,1.5746543,3a,75y,332.82h,76.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI9oVxI6f-Sw0U1neVekRpg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

I'm afraid I look at the whole project and just ask myself "Why?"......

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info- I'd been under the assumption the two projects were linked, I didn't realise it was a separate enterprise from the museum.

[Michael Crofts]

Adding to the list of useful material for anyone thinking of modelling Leiston, or using it as inspiration for a freelance model, I recommend these:

 

British Railway Journal, Number 75, contains an article on the Aldeburgh Branch by Jenkins and Turner. 

 

Illustrated History of the East Suffolk Railway, John Brodribb, Ian Allan. 

 

But sadly, once you start digging in to the subject you find that the published photographic record is really quite sparse, with the same photos being reproduced again and again in different publications. I am a tiny bit puzzled by this because Dr. Ian Allen, the well known railway photographer, practised in Leiston, yet I see very few images of the Aldeburgh branch credited to him. Does anyone know who holds his archive?

 

 

[Johann Marsbar]

3 minutes ago, Michael Crofts said:

But sadly, once you start digging in to the subject you find that the published photographic record is really quite sparse, with the same photos being reproduced again and again in different publications. I am a tiny bit puzzled by this because Dr. Ian Allen, the well known railway photographer, practised in Leiston, yet I see very few images of the Aldeburgh branch credited to him. Does anyone know who holds his archive?

 

 

 

The Transport Treasury hold his East Anglian photographic collection, though my understanding of what happened to his photos (and those from another East Anglian photographer as well) after his death doesn't quite tie up with the description on their website..........

[laurenceb]

Possibly Dr Allen when off duty got out of town to avoid unofficial consultations!

[Michael Crofts]

To celebrate the revival of rmweb after the ghastly 2022 outage here is a picture of Brian Ginger, I think possibly the last signalman at Leiston, taken by me.

It's sad to see the levers going rusty and no cloth in use, but this was near the end. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Michael Crofts

[009 micro modeller]

On 25/01/2022 at 17:14, Ben B said:

It's been interesting following the development of this scheme, ever since seeing it featured on the Lawries Mechanical Marvels Youtube channel.  It's nice seeing the progress, and it's obviously somewhere safe enough that they're not worried about the scrap-metal fairies turning up in the middle of the night to pinch the rails!  It's an atmospheric little scene, the railway squeezing past the back gardens, not unlike the atmosphere of the old 'Town' section of the Welshpool and Llanfair.

 

Whilst I love it, and think it would be a great little add-on for the museum, the cynic in me wonders just how much they'd be able to achieve with it.  As mentioned in one of the posts above, there does seem to be an issue with the proximity of the pub to the trackbed and the line running through their grounds, though the website mentions that they're trying to get permission for access.  And they must have some very understanding neighbours too!  Personally I'd love a railway at the end of the garden, though I don't know how happy I'd be if it was washing day and a steam loco trundled past every hour.

 

I wonder how they'll get access for their rolling stock?  According to the website, they've got the original steam shunter and have purchased an LMS brake van.  As an out-and-back attraction from the museum, it would be great, but in this day and age would they get permission to re-install the level crossing over the road (Main St.) from the museum site to the alleway with the track?  OK so people could be encouraged to walk over the road to a little platform from the museum, but then there's the problem of where to store the rolling stock... towards the old exchange yard is an even busier bit of road that the steam line would need to cross on an angle, over a road junction adjacent to another level crossing, albeit one that looks effectively mothballed), and no room for a loco shed.  Would a crossing on Main St. be allowed if it was only for occasional (eg twice a day) light engine moves between the museum and the running line, rather than public passenger services?  Or would there be some equivalent to 'grandfathers rights' as it was an industrial concern, that would allow the re-installation of the crossing?  Are the original rails still there under the tarmac (bits of the track seem to be dotted around the course of the branch), which would allow some legal wiggle-room for reopening?  A modern crossing with at the least lights, if not full barriers, would (I'd have thought) be prohibitively expensive.

 

Though it's nice to think of a reopened passenger service on the Sizewell branch tying-in with a heritage shuttle train to the museum...

 

I might be overthinking this, but I've been fighting temptation for a while to build an urban village tramway layout (as a heritage operation set in the present day) since stumbling over the Leiston Works line, and also visiting the remains of the Burneside Tramway in Cumbria,  so I'm trying to come up with the practicalities

I realise it’s a slightly old thread but is there anyone on here involved with the Leiston Works Railway, or does anyone have any further information about how the group restoring the line are getting on? I haven’t got round to visiting yet but from what I’ve seen I think it’s a superb and interesting project and would be a nice addition to the museum, and their social media has pictures of track laying from a working party earlier this month, so it’s obviously still an active project and they seem quite confident. However, I’m similarly a bit confused about how they’re going to do the last bit to the museum. Maybe some sort of restricted-use level crossing might be allowed, perhaps a bit like Sheringham (though I appreciate that one is only intended to be used very infrequently), but weren’t they also trying to acquire the bit of trackbed in the pub garden? Assuming that it isn’t possible to connect up to the shed that Syrapite is currently kept in, is there space in the museum yard for a new shed, or would this need to move to the area that currently forms part of the pub garden as well? Again, I really like this project and if I lived nearer I’d probably want to get involved myself, I’m just curious as to how they plan to sort out somewhere to keep rolling stock and allow public access for passengers at either end of the line.

[Bucoops]

They are quite active on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100067006294952

 

 

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Bucoops said:

They are quite active on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100067006294952

 

 

Yes I saw that. Interestingly there’s a post quite near the top about crossing the road at the other end of the line (near the former station on the branch) but isn’t that potentially even more complex?