Completely Dejected from Model Railway

[Sir TophamHatt]

This week should have been a week of fun as Master TH has shown some limited interest in the railway. Instead it's marred with things that don't make sense.

 

A few weeks, month or so ago, I fitted and tested an auto shuttle piece of hardware. The Zimo fitted chip, after some hours of testing different settings, did seem to work.

 

Come to the railway today. Gave it a test and the loco completely ignored the shuttle activator (a break in the track) and crashed. Turned the loco the other way, it recognised the shuttle and slowed, but then sped up again and crashed. Turned the loco back around again and this time it noticed the break in the track, slowed but didn't actually stop.

 

Knowledge in this area is fairly low anyway and it seems the only way to get reliable shuttle working is to spend £600 on a premium controller that has special wizardry of it's own to make trains stop in the right place and reverse back.

 

I notice Richard from Everard Junction has opted for a loop to turn one of his locos (although not sure what will be on the other end).

 

I just get really frustrated when something that should be simple, doesn't work and I think about the hours I've wasted trying to get it to work.

 

Does anyone else find a project so annoying that they feel completely put off by the whole model?

 

I built this with some limited automation in mind but if I can't have it then it seems nearly pointless. It's a bit dodgy in places anyway, so maybe I should just scrap the whole thing and regain some house space. Ugh! 

 

[Blandford1969]

35 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

 

 

Does anyone else find a project so annoying that they feel completely put off by the whole model?

 

 

Frequently over the years. Our Mojo can have an effect as well. The only workaround which results in my wife calling me arfur is to have lots of different things on the go so when I get fed up with one I can turn to a different one. 

 

Maybe others have had the same problems and found how to fix them?

[Jeff Smith]

It's happened over the years.  Two brass vehicles, a coach and a loco, were started and then finished 10 or more years later.  Something to do with soldering skills and low-melt solder availability in the US!  The latter now solved by illegal imports (everything is lead-free as well as too high a melting point.....)

[The Johnster]

Check out the mojo thread, Sir Topham, you will probably find much there that relates to you.  When things go wrong and one cannot explain them, it goes against one's rational understanding of the matter in the first place, and leaves one feeling stupid and to blame when one is neither of those things; this is a normal reaction. 

 

I advise against having lots of things on the go so that there is something else you can turn to; I see where Blandford is coming from, but it doesn't work for me.  What happens in my case, proven by many years' experience, is that, with the best will and intention in the world, I end up with a large number of unfinished projects all of which I have got inextricably stuck on, and the temptation is to start yet another one that will progress for a while and eventually get stuck same as the others.  At the end of the process, you look at the situation and become depressed with it.  The danger then is that you give up altogether and begin the process again in another hobby, with the same ultimate result.

 

My way of preventing this is to impose a discipline on myself with regard to projects.  One project at a time, no starting any others until the one in hand is finished, and each task within the project taken as a mini-project with the same rules applied.  This breaks matters down into bite-sized achieveable portions, each of which can be rejoiced in as a success when you complete it, but need not be the cause of failure anxiety if it is giving trouble, as it is only a small part of the overall job and small parts are much easier to deal with and solve. 

 

Of course, what I recommend because it works for me might not cut your mustard  at all, which is how the world is and that's fine.  One must not overworry about this sort of thing; do your best and let the world be the world...

 

I have benefitted greatly from this approach, and have just effectively completed the colliery extension to Cwmdimbath in less than a month, though I did put my 31xx project officially 'on hold' while I concentrated on the colliery.  I am now having a break before taking up cudgels with the 31xx again, probably in the new year now.  There is plenty to do, as well as operating sessions (which I love), in the way of mini-projectettes that can be done in a hour or less.  I'm out for an xmas meal in a pub tonight, but tomorrow's job is to place a piece of grass mat on the nearside of the new cutting ready for scenicking, shouldn't take more than half hour tops, cutting the mat to the curve of the running line and fixing the bottom edge, then draping it over the cardboard mountainside formers, and stuffing old newspapers or anything else that comes to hand under it to shape the mountainside.  This is modelling at it's crudest and most basic, but no less enjoyable and satisfying for all that.

 

Apropos your shuttle, I would take it out, test it as much as possible off the layout, and when you know it is working put it back in and test again.  I'm not up to speed with DCC but have seen shuttles working in DC. If it can't be made to work, then it is faulty not you, and must be sent back for replacement.  I understand the frustration (believe me, I've had plenty of similar experiences over the years and never got to the bottom of some of them), but it seems a very small stumbling block to throw the whole layout away over.  A problem with a design that relies on automation is that it relies on the automation working and may not be easy to operate 'manually'.

 

I have had my share of mystery electrical faults, and I think an explanation of some of them is that there are ways in which current can find it's way across and through spaces that you think are insulating it.  My approach now when building or extending the layout is constant test running at all stages.  Lay the track and attach feed wires, and test run thoroughly (trt).  Adijust the track to it's final fixed position with light pinning, and trt.  Fix the track permanently and trt.  Full wiring and trt.  Paint the rail sides and trt. Ballast and trt.  Apply whatever scenic treatment and trt.  Establish absolute 100% performance by means of trt at each stage before starting the next one, and trt should include any propelling moves you include in the projected operation sequence.

 

This is an extension of a methodology I began employing many years ago after a series of failed layouts in which the scenery was started at one end but never got to the other, because I though of railways as linear.  In civil engineering terms they're not, you start from the ground up, formation, trackbed, track.  Build your layouts like this and they seem to take a long time to look like models as opposed to wierd carpentry projects, but, patience padawan, it all comes together quite rapidly in the later stages.  Moreover, the trt process will have familiarised you very thoroughly with the layout's individual quirks (they all have 'em), so if anything gives trouble you will have a pretty good idea where to start looking for the problem.

 

And, probably most importantly, nil illigitami carborundum (never let the b*stards grind you down)!

[Jeff Smith]

I certainly agree with the 'bite sized chunks' approach to modelling activities, and of having one main project on the go, although I usually have several in the thought incubation stage as well.  The blinkered approach sometimes catches me out when I suddenly realise that it's finished with nothing more to do!

 

Although retired and in theory having time on my hands, I have noticed the difference between fitting some in when you can and continuing 'all day', that is, that my attention span runs out after a couple of hours and I need to do something else for a while!

[burgundy]

I am somewhere between the Blandford and the Johnster approaches. I agree that you need to keep the focus and effort on your main project for as long as possible, but I find that I need to have a fall back project, as a diversion, when the main one goes pear shaped; I think I have earned a PhD researching the different ways to create short circuits in simple wiring.   

After a certain point, banging your head against a problem just gives you a headache. Changing projects allows you to reflect on what is wrong with the first one, to talk to a few people for ideas, to come back to it with a fresh mind and to carry on doing something constructive in the meantime.

I start to worry when I find that I am on a third project - a diversionary project from a diversion.  

Best wishes 

Eric 

[rab]

Some interesting input here.

I have been trying to stay focused on 'the main project '

my theory being that time spent on other things is just

extending the completion time of the main one.

However when i think about the time wasted by

insisting on p!odding on even when things are going wrong,

or even when I'm just not 'in the mood' for it, I can see that

it may be better to turn to something else.

At least that is more productive than sitting down sulking

because things are going wrong.

[wombatofludham]

Ahh, the mojo question.

I've never made a secret of the fact I suffer from clinical depression and am prone to periods when just getting out of bed is the task of the day, so much so it killed my career, and on a couple of occasions very nearly me, but when lockdown v1.0 was introduced, I gave myself the proverbial size 13 up the chuff to actually start building the layout I had been planning for seven years.  That said, planning is probably an overstatement.  As a retired member of the Royal Town Planning Institute, you'd think I'd know precisely what I was going to do and how to do it.

No.

Two years on I'm now on my third major rebuild.  Despite the obvious lack of forward planning, it is actually doing great things for my mental health.  I now have a clear workflow worked out in my head and have learned a lot from the two previous iterations of "Wednesford", plus a lot of the stuff will be able to be recycled so not completely wasted.  I suppose I can take three things from the experience:

1) Sometimes you've just got to dive in, procrastination is too often a default position:

2) Never ask a member of the Royal Town Planning Institute to plan a project.  You'd be better off chasing a spillage of liquid mercury whilst simultaneously trying to herd kittens:

3) If something isn't working out, don't be afraid to rip it up and try again.  Sometimes the best of plans and intentions can be stymied by an unknown unknown.

I am determined this will be the last rebuild.  Probably.

[Dava]

Do you need DCC for your shuttle? Could you use a plain DC shuttle module for £20 or so? what does DCC add?

 

Dava

[The Johnster]

I suspect he does, in order to have the train slowing smoothly to a stop and accellerating smoothly from rest.  DC shuttles are not good at this, though fine in other respects.

[AndyB]

"Does anyone else find a project so annoying that they feel completely put off by the whole model?"

 

I've often got to the stage in models where there are just too many issues that it justifies stopping and building something different. 

 

But, then, is this actually my head being turned by a new and exciting idea and then needing excuses to justify my decision.

 

I suspect the latter.

 

With my current layout once the boards and most of the track were laid and wired up I've taken a non-linear approach. Meaning that I can work on a small cameo scene in one part of the layout whilst planning what will be done somewhere else. 

 

My layout thread probably looks as if I jump from one incomplete section to another. But overall there is steady progress and no one thing bogs me down as I can simply work on another bi if I start to struggle.

 

Sometimes when there's a sticking point you just need to give your brain space to let a solution present itself.

 

My layout is a long BLT - at the FY end I could build another station instead, which will need research and planning and construction. So in essence I can be progressing all aspects of the hobby at once which keeps things fresh. 

[The Johnster]

There may be a point at which you have to simply admit that a project is beyond your skill level and that further effort is pointless, and abandon it to move on.  Nothing wrong in this, mistakes are permitted, it’s a hobby, not brain surgery.  While pushing the skillset boundaries can result in you surprising yourself, it can also affirm that your limitations are exactly what you thought they were, but you won’t know until you try!

[Tony_S]

On a purely practical note have you set the decoder to be dcc only? Runaways like you mention can happen sometimes if the “also works on dc” setting has been selected. 
 

[AndrueC]

Yeah. I've not yet got dejected but I was a bit exasperated recently after I'd removed all the stock from one of my yards to paint the track. Having had a faultless summer I made sure to number all the stock as I boxed it so as to re-assemble in the same way. Despite that when I tried to run my class 43 she kept suffering breakaways where she had last spring. I think I know part of the cause (I had the body off the rear unpowered unit to fit a decoder and hadn't properly clipped the chassis back in) but honestly I've been too 'scared' to run her again and haven't tried any of the other rakes either. My layout is definitely a round-roundy and seeing a train go wrong half way round is dispiriting.

 

I'm still using Arnold couplers though and do have a set of replacement Dapol knuckles so maybe the time has finally come to fit those on the 43(*).

 

The other rakes never did cause me trouble but the thought of discovering that they too don't like being disturbed is putting me off running. At least I have a major modelling project to concentrate on and I'm intending to devote at least one of the Christmas holiday days to running stuff. I'm sure once I've seen everything run I'll be happy again.

 

Bite sized chunks is definitely the way to go. That's something I know from computer programming. I think my biggest problem at the moment is that I'm used to the speed of software development and also like to see results ASAP. I think one of my challenges when I retire is learning that modelling is a journey and getting to the end is no longer desirable

 

(*)I call her Miss Behaviour for a good reason. Le sigh.

Edited December 15, 2021 by AndrueC

[AyJay]

On 14/12/2021 at 13:44, Sir TophamHatt said:

so maybe I should just scrap the whole thing and regain some house space.

 

Is that Mrs TophamHatt speaking ?

Like Monty Python, go and do something completely different and then come back to it when you feel ready.  Don't worry, hits me from time to time.  All the best.

[Michael Hodgson]

On 15/12/2021 at 01:30, The Johnster said:

I suspect he does, in order to have the train slowing smoothly to a stop and accellerating smoothly from rest.  DC shuttles are not good at this, though fine in other respects.

Some of them are designed to handle smooth acceleration/braking; depends on the module.