BT Digital Voice

[Metr0Land]

Yes I just had good-to-go email timed at 17:05, hours and hours after they'd screwed me made system enhancements

[john new]

The whole thing seems pointless when what we have now works, and a pain the a*** for the technical dunces. Example my 98 year old mother. Her village was out for 36 hours in the last storm, her bog standard BT phone worked, many others in the village had nothing!  This is not progress.

[Hroth]

Well, today BT excelled themselves.

 

The postcard detailing how switchover would go arrived this morning.

Nothing they described on the card actually happened yesterday, apart from the activation of the digital line.  The old line still gives a dialtone...

 

At least the phones they offered when I spoke to the freephone helpline on Thursday have actually arrived, and I've got one in service. (the other can wait)

 

Hey ho.

 

19 hours ago, john new said:

The whole thing seems pointless when what we have now works, and a pain the a*** for the technical dunces. Example my 98 year old mother. Her village was out for 36 hours in the last storm, her bog standard BT phone worked, many others in the village had nothing!  This is not progress.

 

Its not "progress", but its what everyone will have to put up with by 2025.  There will be universal VOIP and all the PSTN exchanges will have gone. People who do not use broadband internet will get a simplified DSL modem, which will use the fibre network, to connect their phones to.  Its either that or mobile phones.

 

 

[Butler Henderson]

...and everyone will reflect on once being able to phone locally without having to use the national dialling code. Happened this week to my father although that was through a changed BT broadband package rather than a conpulsory enforced change; he got told he needed new phones but when he rang up the number he was given was told he did not. Subsequently wondered why he could ring out nor anyone ring him and got into quite a panic being of a age where putting 2 and 2 together is not straight forward. Last I know BT had given him a compatible phone.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Butler Henderson

[uax6]

Sadly the change is due to the System X exchanges being long past their design lives. I was talking to a System X designer who worked for GEC, and he was saying that the original back planes (the bits the cards plug into) were designed with a 40 year life, but BT were looking to cut the cost of the digitalisation process, so all parts of the system had to be looked at to cut costs, which knocked the design life back to about 25 years. Sadly this process scaled back the rigidity of the backplanes, and it is mainly these items that are failing on the exchanges that are still in use. That and the reduction in people with land lines, and the fact that BT sold all their buildings in 2001 with a 25 year lease on them all (and a caveat that they would be handed back empty) means that they don't want lots of exchanges and can't really afford to have exchanges with small numbers of subs on them, and the fact that voip is a cheap add on to the internet equipment, means that its now time to say goodbye to all that we have known...

I'll miss dialling locally without the area code....

 

Andy G 

[Hroth]

When I was very young*, we were still on a manual exchange and had to ask the operator for the number required!  I had to be stopped from picking up the handset and chatting to the ladies at the exchange.

 

How things have changed...

 

* Two or three, perhaps.

 

[Metr0Land]

7 hours ago, Hroth said:

Well, today BT excelled themselves.

 

The postcard detailing how switchover would go arrived this morning.

 

 

Same here.  'Keep it by the phone' it says, detailing what I need to do for the cutover that happened yesterday. 

[mezzoman253]

7 hours ago, uax6 said:

Sadly the change is due to the System X exchanges being long past their design lives. I was talking to a System X designer who worked for GEC, and he was saying that the original back planes (the bits the cards plug into) were designed with a 40 year life, but BT were looking to cut the cost of the digitalisation process, so all parts of the system had to be looked at to cut costs, which knocked the design life back to about 25 years. Sadly this process scaled back the rigidity of the backplanes, and it is mainly these items that are failing on the exchanges that are still in use. That and the reduction in people with land lines, and the fact that BT sold all their buildings in 2001 with a 25 year lease on them all (and a caveat that they would be handed back empty) means that they don't want lots of exchanges and can't really afford to have exchanges with small numbers of subs on them, and the fact that voip is a cheap add on to the internet equipment, means that its now time to say goodbye to all that we have known...

I'll miss dialling locally without the area code....

 

Andy G 

I worked on System X as a BT maintenance engineer, and a few of the backplanes had started to fail a few years before I left in 2002. That's 20 years ago, so they haven't done too badly, but the failure rate has accelerated and the exchanges have become unviable, hence the switch to VOIP.

 

https://www.bt.com/bt-plc/assets/documents/about-bt/our-history/bt-archives/information-sheets-and-timelines/digital-exchanges.pdf

 

Rob

 

[john new]

19 hours ago, uax6 said:

Sadly the change is due to the System X exchanges being long past their design lives. I was talking to a System X designer who worked for GEC, and he was saying that the original back planes (the bits the cards plug into) were designed with a 40 year life, but BT were looking to cut the cost of the digitalisation process, so all parts of the system had to be looked at to cut costs, which knocked the design life back to about 25 years. Sadly this process scaled back the rigidity of the backplanes, and it is mainly these items that are failing on the exchanges that are still in use. That and the reduction in people with land lines, and the fact that BT sold all their buildings in 2001 with a 25 year lease on them all (and a caveat that they would be handed back empty) means that they don't want lots of exchanges and can't really afford to have exchanges with small numbers of subs on them, and the fact that voip is a cheap add on to the internet equipment, means that its now time to say goodbye to all that we have known...

I'll miss dialling locally without the area code....

 

Andy G 

So why not build more of them, probably too simple, instead of buggering up everyone’s existing kit. The cynic in me says that way they (phone kit makers) also flog thousands of replacement phones despite ending up with a system that is not fit for purpose. I make that last statement as a former Emergency Planning Officer, this system is unfit for a national network because it cannot sustain loss of power.

 

The decision has been made though so no use complaining.

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by john new

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, john new said:

So why not build more of them, probably too simple, instead of buggering up everyone’s existing kit. The cynic in me says that way they (phone kit makers) also flog thousands of replacement phones despite ending up with a system that is not fit for purpose. I make that last statement as a former Emergency Planning Officer, this system is unfit for a national network because it cannot sustain loss of power.

I would imagine because BT do not have any legal requirement to maintain a national network in that sort of manner, it would require Government investment.  Generally businesses have moved over to VOIP services as they are much cheaper, don't require lots of on premise switching and can be served to anywhere - WFH for example.  Home usage will have plummetted as 4g and now 5g mobile networks served people with everything they need via their digital devices whilst the landline gathered dust in the corner of the room.

 

We have three landline phones in the house, the only people who call us on them are scam companies, one of the phones upstairs is a very old simple push button phone 'in case' - but thankfully we've never had such a power outage.

 

It is ironic that just as the one reliable solution in the case of power outages is being ripped out we are in the midst of an energy crisis and we are being warned that our capability may not always meet demand.

[Jonboy]

I have a brother, sister and brother in law each with their own houses and all under 45.

 

2 of our 4 houses don’t have landline handsets at all, as they haven’t seen the point when they moved in despite having the phone line for their broadband.

 

When I used to have a BT service it gave us the 10 recommended numbers for friends and family discount, my parents, the wife’s parents, my workplace and 7 local takeaways…impressive as we only had takeaway on a Friday night….and before just-eat came along with its easy website ordering.

[Reorte]

23 hours ago, john new said:

 

The decision has been made though so no use complaining.

 

Always worth complaining! Won't change anything, true, but it's always worth keeping the reminder that everything isn't great, fine and dandy, and that one person's "progress" is a negative to another. Too many people prefer to stick their fingers in their ears at complaints about changes they like, seemingly convincing themselves that it's all wonderful and if that requires getting anyone who disagrees to shut up and pretend to like it too then that's fine.

[uax6]

5 hours ago, Reorte said:

Always worth complaining! Won't change anything, true, but it's always worth keeping the reminder that everything isn't great, fine and dandy, and that one person's "progress" is a negative to another. Too many people prefer to stick their fingers in their ears at complaints about changes they like, seemingly convincing themselves that it's all wonderful and if that requires getting anyone who disagrees to shut up and pretend to like it too then that's fine.

 

I agree, it is worth complaining. Several years ago I got a letter with my milk delivery that explained that they were stopping using glass milk bottles and moving over to fully recyclable plastic ones. 

I immediately phoned Milk and More and pointed out that it was a crazy backwards move going from something that was totally re-useable for its entire life, to something that would be used once and then recycled. I then when on to say that if glass bottles were indeed withdrawn, then I would stop having a doorstep delivery. I asked why the change, and was told that the bottle factory that they owned needed a refit, and the company wouldn't invest in it.

I also shoved this news on Faceache.

Strangely the change never happened, and they now use the 'fully re-useable' glass bottles as a selling point in their advertising...

 

Andy G

[Reorte]

9 minutes ago, uax6 said:

 

I agree, it is worth complaining. Several years ago I got a letter with my milk delivery that explained that they were stopping using glass milk bottles and moving over to fully recyclable plastic ones. 

I immediately phoned Milk and More and pointed out that it was a crazy backwards move going from something that was totally re-useable for its entire life, to something that would be used once and then recycled. I then when on to say that if glass bottles were indeed withdrawn, then I would stop having a doorstep delivery. I asked why the change, and was told that the bottle factory that they owned needed a refit, and the company wouldn't invest in it.

I also shoved this news on Faceache.

Strangely the change never happened, and they now use the 'fully re-useable' glass bottles as a selling point in their advertising...

 

Andy G

Nice one! Not that I get milk delivered. Apparently they used, a long time ago when the track was in a better state, but try it now and you'd probably end up with a lot of broken glass.

[jpendle]

On 06/02/2022 at 03:12, john new said:

So why not build more of them,

Because the factories making System X closed down or started making other stuff years ago, and the parts used are obsolete.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[john new]

4 minutes ago, jpendle said:

Because the factories making System X closed down or started making other stuff years ago, and the parts used are obsolete.

 

Regards,

 

John P

What I expected. Do the Emergency services still have Airwave (I think that was it was called)  or has that also gone since I retired. 

[Reorte]

11 hours ago, jpendle said:

Because the factories making System X closed down or started making other stuff years ago, and the parts used are obsolete.

 

Something that happens far too frequently with various bits of modern technology; I'd argue that the rate of obsolescence makes them not really fit for purpose.

[mikeford2002uk]

Given System X and Y exchanges are a minimum of thirty three years old its not really a statement you could level at this technology though!

[Reorte]

31 minutes ago, mikeford2002uk said:

Given System X and Y exchanges are a minimum of thirty three years old its not really a statement you could level at this technology though!

Thirty-three years isn't really that old in the grand scheme of things, for what's really a settled technology rather than something in its very early stages; it shows how short-termist we've become.

 

At the risk of spouting nonsense because I know nothing about the technology involved (something that I've seen others do far too often!) it sounds like the sort of thing that should've been seen coming, so a drop-in replacement that's functionally the same even if internally different should've been planned for in more recent years.

 

Any functional improvements from new technology should be an option that can gradually be moved over to, without any pressure from everything else breaking down.

 

Although like I said that's being said in ignorance of what's actually involved.

[woodenhead]

18 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Thirty-three years isn't really that old in the grand scheme of things, for what's really a settled technology rather than something in its very early stages; it shows how short-termist we've become.

 

At the risk of spouting nonsense because I know nothing about the technology involved (something that I've seen others do far too often!) it sounds like the sort of thing that should've been seen coming, so a drop-in replacement that's functionally the same even if internally different should've been planned for in more recent years.

 

Any functional improvements from new technology should be an option that can gradually be moved over to, without any pressure from everything else breaking down.

 

Although like I said that's being said in ignorance of what's actually involved.

In technological terms 33 years in digital development is a long long way - think of computers in the period - in 1980 we still used green screens in banks, now you can bank on your telephone.

 

The other matter related to all this and mentioned earlier, if BT have all their exchanges on leases expiring in the next 4 years then drop in replacements are not an option, they won't have the estate to drop them into.

[Metr0Land]

On 29/01/2022 at 14:14, Tony_S said:

We had our BT system changed to Digital Voice late last year. So far no problems. The changeover happened exactly as planned. BT sent us a couple of digital handsets and I used a voucher code to get an adapter for our “traditional” phone that had been on an extension upstairs. Our main Dect  phone base station now plugs into the socket (previously covered with a sticker) on the back. We have had no problems. If we are using a phone, the Digital voice can accept or make  another call too. The digital voice auto answer cut in before our DECT answerphone but that was easy to configure.
Tony

 

Can you please give some details how you did this?  Blowed if I can see how.  I need to configure my home phone and a friend's.  Tks.

[DIW]

14 hours ago, john new said:

What I expected. Do the Emergency services still have Airwave (I think that was it was called)  or has that also gone since I retired. 

If your smartphone can be persuaded to scan operators, then in the EE suite of operators you'll find EE themselves, BT mobile, PlusNet and ESN. (on my phone this shows up as operator '234 32').

ESN stands for Emergency Services Network.

There is still some Airwave kicking around.

Edited February 8, 2022 by DIW
Add info ESN = 234 32

[Metr0Land]

46 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

 

Can you please give some details how you did this?  Blowed if I can see how.  I need to configure my home phone and a friend's.  Tks.

 

Hold on for now!  I believe the answer might be to switch off BT Voice Mail which comes free with the new digital stuff.  I may have to wait 24hours for the deactivation to confirm old answerphone cuts in.

[john new]

This all seems to be the proverbial some steps forward and some back. A smart phone does more than a landline, undoubted fact, but lacks robustness in what (and I guess even this is arguable these days) is the prime function of it, namely the ability to provide a reliable and robust voice use telephone service.
 

I have a smart phone and a landline, for actually talking to people, the old style handset and landline is much more comfortable to use and with our three internal sites coverage is good and reliable. On the other hand it can’t come out and about with me, text messages, take photos, or connect to the internet etc. I want to keep both options; however, sadly too many people don’t use landlines these days so the inherent advantages of that robust and reliable system for basic connectivity in extreme times are being lost.
 

As a former EPO I find this a worry but it appears the majority don’t share that view so it is being lost. Let us hope for not too many more extreme weather events/power outages to test communication systems, or perish the thought, wide spread terror campaigns like the Aintree bomb where the public signal service  has to be cut.

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by john new

[Reorte]

2 minutes ago, john new said:

This all seems to be the proverbial some steps forward and some back. A smart phone does more than a landline, undoubted fact, but lacks robustness in what (and I guess even this is arguable these days) is the prime function of it, namely the ability to provide a reliable and robust voice use telephone service.
 

I have a smart phone and a landline, for actually talking to people, the old style handset and landline is much more comfortable to use and with our three internal sites coverage is good and reliable. On the other hand it can’t come out and about with me, text messages, take photos, or connect to the internet etc. I want to keep both options; however, sadly too many people don’t use landlines these days so the inherent advantages of that robust and reliable system for basic connectivity in extreme times are being lost.
 

As a former EPO I find this a worry but it appears the majority don’t share that view so it is being lost. Let us hope for not too many more extreme weather events/power outages to test communication systems, or perish the thought, wide spread terror campaigns like the Aintree bomb where the public signal service  has to be cut.

 

I tend to get a bit grumpy about it because I find a landline perfectly adequate for all my telephone needs (although with a long distance back to the cabinet it's not great for internet entertainment, but still adequate). Just never had any need or desire to have access to any of that when out and about, so no smart phone or any sort of mobile backup. I have similar feelings about a great deal of such changes, which is where my cynicism and distinct lack of being impressed comes from (I actually find the technology impressive and fascinating purely in its own right).