Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[andyman7]

3588 wasn't refurbished until the latter half of 1995 according to my platform 5 books. that was after the abolition of network southeast. also the review in Rail Express Modeller, September 2011, it states the unit carried NSE livery but not the branding or kent coast route stickers. apparently there is pictorial evidence.  so I stand corrected. its a minor livery issue.

i was working for the South Central TOU at the time, after NSE was abolished I can confirm that NSE livery continued to be applied in the absence of instructions to do anything different. Eventually, a 'works grey' finish which some CIGs ended up with, but as I stated above, I was not aware of any VEP ever getting those colours. 3588 must have been one of the last ones done as by 1994 it was very rare to find an unfacelifted unit.

Edited July 13, 2014 by andyman7

[Red Fox]

Does anyone know of a good paint match to the blue Hornby used on R2946?  Preferably a spray paint (Halfords?) as I don't possess an airbrush. Going to have a go at making unit 3417 'Gordon Pettitt' from a cheap BR blue unit I picked up and a NSE motor coach.

 

[Electrostar]

Andyman7: I'm not surprised considering the South Central TOC was called Network SouthCentral and even kept the NSE flashes. I often wondered who came up with the pre-privatisation TOC names. As I recall only Thameslink was allowed to introduce a new livery - the 'graffiti livery with silhouettes of St Paul's - but why did NSC get to keep the NSE flashes and Network name when others simply became Southeastern, Great Eastern, LTS Rail, WAGN etc? Then there were the early post-privatisation liveries: orange stripe or green stripe added to the NSE liveries of South West Trains and LTS Rail respectively. Chiltern went for a thinner red stripe and different direction at the cab ends, but the livery is essentially still based on Network South East all these years later. Then there are names like South West Trains (which initially had the Stagecoach moniker added), Chiltern and the very-recently revived Thameslink that are still around today.

[andyman7]

Andyman7: I'm not surprised considering the South Central TOC was called Network SouthCentral and even kept the NSE flashes. I often wondered who came up with the pre-privatisation TOC names. As I recall only Thameslink was allowed to introduce a new livery - the 'graffiti livery with silhouettes of St Paul's - but why did NSC get to keep the NSE flashes and Network name when others simply became Southeastern, Great Eastern, LTS Rail, WAGN etc? Then there were the early post-privatisation liveries: orange stripe or green stripe added to the NSE liveries of South West Trains and LTS Rail respectively. Chiltern went for a thinner red stripe and different direction at the cab ends, but the livery is essentially still based on Network South East all these years later. Then there are names like South West Trains (which initially had the Stagecoach moniker added), Chiltern and the very-recently revived Thameslink that are still around today.

The answer is that once the HQ functions were turned off, the TOUs (as they were called pre-privatisation) became very largely self-governing, provided that they worked within the capital expenditure limits of BRB HQ. NSE was abolished on 1 May 1994, after which there was no central branding diktat to tell the ex-NSE TOUs what they could or couldn't do in terms of branding, as long as it didn't cost anything. At South Central, their cheap spiffing wheeze was to replace the 'SouthEast' with 'SouthCentral'. Most other TOUs basically cooked up a new logo with a word processor and left it at that. Thameslink somehow managed to convince BRB HQ that if a unit was shopped, it was cheaper to leave it in grey and stick some vinyls on it, hence their own livery. One of their units in grey managed to fail at Balcombe Tunnel Junction which led South Central Control to famously write in the log 'The battleship has sunk' !

[Electrostar]

Interesting stuff. I find it incredible that the privatised Chiltern only tweaked the NSE livery but have kept it ever since, other than on their Mainline service. (And that's not a complete, just an observation about the last two decades of rebrands!) If I recall Chiltern, Thames Trains, Connex South Eastern and WAGN couldn't paint their Turbos or Networkers for some time as it would have invalidated the paint warranty. It explains why Chiltern tweaked NSE with vinyls and Connex did the same, in effect removing the red stripe and adding yellow which left it at odds with all (dirty) white/yellow of the Connex slam door stock, 455s, 319s and sole 456 on South Central and South Eastern. Privatised WAGN and Thames Trains left theirs in NSE livery for quite sometime I recall.

Ps loved the Thameslink anecdote!

[Southernman46]

I see the B&G one is now planned for mid Oct

[St. Simon]

Interesting stuff. I find it incredible that the privatised Chiltern only tweaked the NSE livery but have kept it ever since, other than on their Mainline service.

Hi,

 

They only kept the 'tweaked NSE' Livery for a little while until the Class 168's came on stream and the 165's got refurbished. The standard livery is nothing like NSE.

 

Simom

[Electrostar]

My mistake. I always thought it still looked like an adapted version of NSE. I assumed the blue window surrounds extending to the cab side in an upright diagonal could trace its roots back to NSE with extra blue where the original red slope was. The horizontal red line, though thinner than NSE appears in the same position as NSE without the slope. Obviously DDA requirements came later and meant changing the colour of the doors.

 

Anyway enough of all that, great news about the blue-grey VEP. Will Hornby hold good on its promise to adapt the solid interior, the discussion of which now feels like years ago?!

[SRman]

I wonder, too, whether Hornby will hold good to the promise of supplying replacement seat units with the see through corridor windows for previous models, for those who want them, or if that promise will have died with the departure of Simon Kohler.

 

I hope they will supply them as I have three earlier models to fix up. I converted one DTC only using an old Triang Mk1 composite interior section which had almost identical compartment sizes to the VEP unit. That was a lot of work and I only had the one seat unit that suited - all my other spare seat units are from other coach types and none matches the compartment size of the VEP.

[kintbury jon]

I'm tempted to get one of the blue/grey ones and pimp it up with NSE branding and renumber it to a 30xx series.  According to my 1989 book blue/grey VEPs were still around when some of the 34xx series were produced.  Might have to wait and see what the price is though, i'm sure they won't be knocking them out at below £100 like they ended up doing with the blue and NSE versions.

[Mike Storey]

Has anyone seen a revised date for the B/G version please? The Hornby site now just refers to "forthcoming release" and it is not listed in the pre-order section, so no date/quarter given..

[33212]

I bought a knock down price 3588, I think, from a prominent west country retailer ages ago, and have only just got round to opening the box and getting it ready. When the MBS is on the programming track, all hell lets loose, it crashes the dcc and sits there screeching, I cannot interogate the chip even. On the mainline, the screeching continues, but I can get it to move using 0000 as the code. If this was not bad enough, two of the couplings have bits missing so I cannot even join the bits up.

 

I have not the time to read through the 61 pages if the topis, is this common or have I been sold a pup? I know the units have their problems....

 

Thanks in advance

 

Matt

[New Haven Neil]

Sounds like it's a non DCC one!

[33212]

Sounds like it's a non DCC one!

Thought that, but there is a label in it stating it is chip fitted....might have to take it apart..

 

Thanks for reply

Matt

[br-nse-fan]

Thought that, but there is a label in it stating it is chip fitted....might have to take it apart..

 

Thanks for reply

Matt

 

My non-DCC NSE one came with a little paper insert stating the same.  No decoder to be found however... shame.. here I was hoping for an accidental bonus!

[Mike Storey]

I guess most of you have seen that the Blue Grey version is due for release on 9 December. I have sent emails to Hornby twice asking what improvements have been made, but have received no reply at all.

 

Has anyone found out?

[Multiple identity account]

I guess most of you have seen that the Blue Grey version is due for release on 9 December. I have sent emails to Hornby twice asking what improvements have been made, but have received no reply at all.

 

Has anyone found out?

I shall send them a quick message.

[33212]

So, are they here?

[Southernman46]

Yeah - delivered by pink flying pigs.................................

[surfsup]

Yeah - delivered by pink flying pigs.................................

Oh, I had visions of VEPs paired up with Plastic Pig 442s for a moment!

Edited December 12, 2014 by surfsup

[Mike Storey]

I finally got a (terse) response from Hornby about the Blue/Grey version - they have made several improvements following "comments" (they don;t state origin) on the first batch, including inserting the windows into the compartment partitions (hooray!), bogie improvements and other unspecified minor changes. However, they reviewed the size of the cab windows (no mention of the over-deep corridor connection) and "on reflection" decided they did not need to change these. They have also said that "there were no comments" (!!!????)  about the visibility of the motor through the windows, so they have not done anything about that either. So, an improvement but still with a major flaw (visible motor) which is a flaw long corrected by the Blue Box company. What on earth is the problem at Hornby??

 

No answer to my question about when the model would be available. The Hornby site still says they were due on 9th Dec 2014, but contradicts this with continuing to call it a "pre-order". None of the usual retailer sites are showing this model as imminent. Did they mean to show 2015?? Anyone know anything more concrete?

[kintbury jon]

I hope bogie improvements means that the wheels are no longer clipped in.  I would get some as spares if this was the case.  Ditto regarding the compartments.  Whilst I butchered the interiors of one of my sets, I have not got round to do the other.

 

I'm not surprised that they haven't changed the ends as I don't think it's a quick fix.  I'll probably get a blue/grey set but will wait until they can't sell them at full price and start knocking them out cheaply.  

[andyman7]

I finally got a (terse) response from Hornby about the Blue/Grey version - they have made several improvements following "comments" (they don;t state origin) on the first batch, including inserting the windows into the compartment partitions (hooray!), bogie improvements and other unspecified minor changes. However, they reviewed the size of the cab windows (no mention of the over-deep corridor connection) and "on reflection" decided they did not need to change these. They have also said that "there were no comments" (!!!????)  about the visibility of the motor through the windows, so they have not done anything about that either. So, an improvement but still with a major flaw (visible motor) which is a flaw long corrected by the Blue Box company. What on earth is the problem at Hornby??

 

No answer to my question about when the model would be available. The Hornby site still says they were due on 9th Dec 2014, but contradicts this with continuing to call it a "pre-order". None of the usual retailer sites are showing this model as imminent. Did they mean to show 2015?? Anyone know anything more concrete?

Thanks for posting your answer from Hornby. I'm not surprised at the limits to the changes, which address the most urgent shortcomings of the first batch, but sorting the rest out would have required bodyshell retooling which they clearly don't want to do. For what it's worth, with these changes it will be fine for me, the model in any case still beats struggling along with an MTK kit.....

[Mike Storey]

Thanks for posting your answer from Hornby. I'm not surprised at the limits to the changes, which address the most urgent shortcomings of the first batch, but sorting the rest out would have required bodyshell retooling which they clearly don't want to do. For what it's worth, with these changes it will be fine for me, the model in any case still beats struggling along with an MTK kit.....

 

Yes, agreed. Better than nothing, and I have ordered 3 x sets. I forgot to say they have also improved the gearing to enhance the slow speed performance and help with traction.

[gc4946]

I remember them very well in blue/grey in my youth.

When they arrive in the shops, I'll examine it closely to find out its running numbers and therefore its allocation history (hope it's a South Western Division numbered unit...) as well as any other detail and mechanical improvements.

 

As I already own their NSE refurbished version, and also taking into account of how much room I have at home to store it, I've yet to commit myself to buy one.