Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[Guest]

Kernow pictures:

 

https://www.facebook.com/207521425956079/photos/pcb.843863198988562/843863095655239/?type=1&relevant_count=2

 

https://www.facebook.com/207521425956079/photos/pcb.843863198988562/843863098988572/?type=1&relevant_count=1

 

Well, it certainly looks like a VEP and that's good enough for me. I appreciate it might still have one or two (well-documented) faults but I'll buy one...

[gc4946]

Correct me if I've got it wrong, I've looked closely at both Olivia Trains' and Kernow's images tonight and it appears this new version's trailing B5(S) bogies still have wheels mounted inside internal sub-frames, as opposed to being fitted with pin-point axles.

 

In the first batch of releases, when running, this arrangement resulted in increased drag and resistance.

 

I'm eagerly waiting for reports on performance before deciding whether to use some of my Xmas money to buy this EMU.

 

 

To illustrate my point, I photographed the bogie on the trailer 2nd in NSE livery from their first batch. It shows the wheels are clipped into an internal sub-frame and when pushed along the track, the carriage is nowhere near as free-rolling compared to those equipped with pin-point bearings.

 

The first photo shows clearly the wheels have no pin-point ends. The second photo shows the wheel rims more closely which I then checked against Kernow's images and they appear to be identical.

 

 

 

I'm happy they've corrected the compartment mouldings and hope the motor's performance better this time round.

 

 

[gelboy45]

The motor bogie(?) appears to show through the windows. If this is so could one just reverse the body to hide it in the brake van?

 

Gerry

[BR(S)]

The motor bogie(?) appears to show through the windows. If this is so could one just reverse the body to hide it in the brake van?

 

Gerry

 

I don't think the couplings would then join together properly (either electrically or as a male/female pair) as you'd have to rotate the chassis through 180 degrees if you wanted the guard's compartment to be in a prototypical position.

[Mike Storey]

As summarised in an earlier post, this is what Hornby told me had been done for the Blue Grey version:

 

Dear Mr Storey,

1.The windows have been created between the corridor and compartment in the interior moulding.

2. We have re tooled the side glazing units to create an easier assembly, and better Finished product.

3. We have changed the gearing configuration to improve low end performance.

4. We have not and never intended to change the motor position. This was never reported as a major issue.

There were a number of minor issues reported during the first release, all of which have been addressed.

There was one subjective comment about the size of the cab front windows. On balance we decided that they were OK and did not make any changes in this regard.

Yours Sincerely

Simon Watkins

Customer Care

 

They appear to have taken notice ONLY of comments made on their own website, which seem to have been minimal. For example, comment no.4. Which makes a mockery of Hornby's claim to be fully engaging with their customers through multiple social media.

 

Nonetheless, as others have said, far better than I could produce from a kit, so I have bought three, which are on their way.

[SRman]

.

There was one subjective comment about the size of the cab front windows. On balance we decided that they were OK and did not make any changes in this regard.

 

 

I, and several others, made comments and comparisons in this forum regarding not just the size but also the positioning of those cab windscreens. That to me was the most glaring error as it affects the whole front aspect of the unit. The details and measurements given by at least one contributor were hardly subjective. Come on Hornby; I normally stick up for you but this one really takes the cake for the rubbish that statement is.

 

That hasn't stopped me acquiring four of them, although none of mine were at full price, which made them more reasonable value for money. At full price I may not have tolerated the inaccuracies, at part-prices, I can live with them.

 

I also want to get the new interiors to replace the existing ones. I fixed one coach using the first class compartments from an old Triang-Hornby composite coach interior but, unfortunately, I don't have any more of those knocking around.

Edited December 23, 2014 by SRman

[Gwiwer]

 

 

4. We have not and never intended to change the motor position. This was never reported as a major issue.

 

Except by a good many members of this and other forums and no doubt some other customers as well.

 

With a large empty brake van taking up half the coach it is still beyond reasonable credibility that no-one thought to place the motor in here rather than having it fully visible in the passenger saloon.

['CHARD]

Motor bogie in passenger end of brake vehicle = complete and utter pisstake.

 

Amateurs.

[leopardml2341]

Chard,

 

Surely you mean armatures?

[Budgie]

Surely you mean armatures?

I wouldn't be so sure. After all, armatures are useful.

[Martin_R]

Just had a look at the new blue grey version - initial observations

1. traction tyres still fitted to motor bogie

2. the guard irons are now missing on cab end bogies (bogies in correct orientation)

3. all non powered bogies are correctly orientated but still with inside 'bearings'

4. initial test shows it has much better slow running abilities and no problems running either way through pointwork.

 

One other point noted is that step boards on MBSO do not line up with some of the doors - is this prototypical?

Edited December 23, 2014 by Martin_R

[gc4946]

They've used the underframe of the refurbished version

 

 

The refurbishment resulted in the double set of doors for the luggage van nearest to the carriage end, replaced with a seating area with entrance bay.

 

[Ceptic]

Once bitten, twice shy, on this'un.

 

Good enuff, ain't good enuff for me !

[Maltazer]

I'm still waiting for mine from Rails - they still show as a pre-order item on their site, and no payment taken yet.  Same happened with the Heljan 33's, and I ended up cancelling and ordering elsewhere to avoid risking them selling out.

 

Mal

[tetsudofan]

My blue & grey 4-VEP was delivered today whilst I was out. Just unpacked the box and notice that the outer cover has a little white sticker with the manufacturer code "SK101". Bit of a surprise - wonder where these models have been for the last few months?

 

Hope to get the set out on the track tomorrow.

 

Merry Christmas,

 

Keith

[kintbury jon]

Just unpacked the box and notice that the outer cover has a little white sticker with the manufacturer code "SK101". Bit of a surprise - wonder where these models have been for the last few months?

 

 

Maybe they have all gone through extensive testing and quality control!

[jonathan452]

What has happened to the bright orange curtains?

 

o.k. I recall that during one of British Rail's 'economy drives' in the late seventies the curtains were removed from the second class saloons. (Alan Williams of Effingham Junction fame was not best pleased!)

 

However they should still be present in the first class compartments.

Edited December 24, 2014 by jonathan452

[tetsudofan]

My blue & grey 4-VEP was delivered today whilst I was out. Just unpacked the box and notice that the outer cover has a little white sticker with the manufacturer code "SK101". Bit of a surprise - wonder where these models have been for the last few months?

 

Hope to get the set out on the track tomorrow.

 

Merry Christmas,

 

Keith

 

 

Got the unit out on the track today and pleased to advise all running well at the moment.

 

Decided to fit a Lenz Standard+ decoder which seems to work well.  No jolting and juddering like the original dcc-fitted releases that I got when the models were first released a year or so ago.

 

 

 

Happy bunny at the moment,

 

Keith

[kintbury jon]

Nice pictures. Although there has been much criticism of these units, they look like a VEP to me.

[BR(S)]

Pictures now on Hatton's site: http://www.ehattons.com/51299/Hornby_R3143_Class_423_VEP_4_car_set_in_BR_blue_grey/StockDetail.aspx

[Tase]

Forgive my ignorance and the lack of a meaningful explanation from the web can someone tell me what the difference between a class 411 and a class 423 is please?

[Gwiwer]

What has happened to the bright orange curtains?

 

o.k. I recall that during one of British Rail's 'economy drives' in the late seventies the curtains were removed from the second class saloons. (Alan Williams of Effingham Junction fame was not best pleased!)

 

However they should still be present in the first class compartments.

 

Hornby has also released Brighton Belle units and hauled Pullman cars without curtains when those had them all their lives.  I wonder what to cost Bachmann to paint curtains onto the Cep windows but it certainly added a touch of class and accuracy to those units.  I'm afraid the b/g Vep might still be a Christmas turkey so far as I am concerned though I acknowledge the efforts made to address some of the faults.

 

Forgive my ignorance and the lack of a meaningful explanation from the web can someone tell me what the difference between a class 411 and a class 423 is please?

 

They are completely different beasts.  Rather like asking what the difference is between a class 47 loco and a class 56 

 

In very general terms the class 411 (4Cep) units were built originally for the 1950s Kent Coast electrification scheme and were intended to be express units.  They closely resembled standard Mk1 coaches of the time with the trailer second and trailer composite looking to the casual observer exactly like SK and CK loose-coupled vehicles though many differences existed.  The driving motor coaches at the outer ends had TSO-style saloon seating but with a guard's brake behind the driver's cab though occupying much less space than it did in the equivalent BSO hauled coach.  Seating in the open coaches was 2+2 with small tables just about big enough to perch a cup of coffee or rest your cigarette on.  The compartments featured 4-a-side seating except in the first class which was 3-a-side.  Doors were at coach ends and also one or two intermediate positions on the trailers

 

Class 423 (4Vep) units were designed as and intended to be used on outer-suburban and main-line stopping services.  The first batches were for the 1960s Bournemouth electrification and then to replace ageing 4Lav units on the Brighton main line.  They followed the design of the slightly earlier class 421 (4Cig) units in general style with rounded cab ends rather than an overhang of the roof panel and were fitted with "Pullman" connecting gangways where one moveble section flexed within a fixed panel fitted to the coach end rather than having a set of rubber bellows as the 4Cep units did.  Internally they featured high-density 3+2 seating which was both draughty as it had doors at almost all seating bays and uncomfortable being fitted with thin unforgiving padding.  First class was in the only side-corridor sections of the unit the rest of which was all open.  The guard had a single brake van in the centre of the unit but with a brake cage which occupied nearly half the vehicle and was much larger than the 4Cep ones.  

 

Below the floor in very simple terms the class 411 had electric motors and control gear fitted to both the end driving coaches while the two centre ones were unpowered trailers; class 423 had three unpowered vehicles with all the control gear fitted to the central brake second open coach to which traction current was supplied via cables from the pick-up shoes which, along with almost all SR 4-car units, were fitted to the outer end bogies of the leading and trailing coaches.

 

The two types were able to work in multiple with each other and many other classes of electric units as well as class 33, 71, 73 and 74 locomotives thanks to the SR 27-way control cable system.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Gwiwer

[Tase]

Rick, thanks for the info. Very helpful. I remember the seating layout on the 423's...always got knocked by people entering/exiting when I was lucky enough to be seated! Mind you, the seating isn't much better on the class 365's nowadays lol.

[SRman]

One minor correction, Rick. The class 71s weren't fitted with EP style jumpers so weren't able to multiple with the EMUs. Otherwise, a pretty good summary!

[JSpencer]

I can vouch for the curtains being there for the all blue 4-VEP and even there for both of blue grey Bachmann 4-CEPs.

 

I recently brought a pair of Hornby match board Pullmans, a 3rd parlour and a 3rd kitchen to extend an existing rake. Surprise surprise there were no curtains on these unlike all my others which came from early production runs.

 

Surprised to see this BG 4 VEP was done by SK.