frobisher Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Would it be possible to graft Bachmann B4 bogies onto the non powered cars? I don't know how much difference there was between a hauled stock B4 and those on an EMU, obstical deflectors aside. Replica's B5's would possibly be a better starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 There just doesn't seem to be an easy answer to this how on earth did Bachmann overcome these problems in their 4CEP? The MK4 (I think?) bogies on the CEP are quite a bit chunkier than the B5 bogies so can hide a lot more behind them, especially with a shoebeam on the side of it. Unfortunately the shoebeam on the VEP is a lot more lightweight than the CEP so that fig leaf is probably going to be nowhere near enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 A very well worded letter Martin. . How do you propose to send it ?. l fear an e-mail will be simply tossed onto the back burner, or into the bin. I'm on the point of writing a second letter of complaint. This time sent by Royal Mail, Recorded delivery, addressed FAO Simon Kohler. l hope you won't mind if l include some of the criticisms raised by you, and other contributers, including a re-inforcement of my own... Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 A very well worded letter Martin. . How do you propose to send it ?. l fear an e-mail will be simply tossed onto the back burner, or into the bin. I'm on the point of writing a second letter of complaint. This time sent by Royal Mail, Recorded delivery, addressed FAO Simon Kohler. l hope you won't mind if l include some of the criticisms raised by you, and other contributers, including a re-inforcement of my own... Regards Doing it by post - and feel free to use whatever you wish from my letter. FAO Simon Kohler and a few choice others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uk_Steve Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Hi Simon just to let you and others know my letter was sent today it was no way as in depth as yours Simon but hopefully it will reinforce customer issues with the 4 VEP all the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted October 12, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2011 I am going to be very interested to see how the modelling press cover the great VEP disaster in upcoming editions, especially those that initially gave it all but glowing reviews (not to mention pickups on bogies that are not there!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 What about adding a Black Beetle or two to the power car; replace the pancake motor and retain the bogie side frames to attach to the BB(s). More expense I know but at least you'll remove the traction tyre issue and improve the overall running. I agree with you Simon, A Black Beetle drive should shift a 4 VEP. More weight in the motor coach would also help in any event. Alternatively, (and half the price of a BB), Ultrascale do a wheel pack for the Hornby 73 with 13mm dia. wheels complete with gears fitted on two axles. Those wheels ought to be a direct fit to the Lima-style power bogie and its dummy power bogie on the motor coach. Here are some Ultrascale wheels on my scabby old class 73: Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadyneman Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I don't know if it's worth mentioning in your letter to Hornby about the number of post on this thread about the VEP. I'm sure Simon Kohler would be very interested to hear and see some of the problems encountered with this unit and from what I have seen from the posts on here a lot of it is self explanatory even to a layman that this thing is not fit for purpose! (I'm not suggesting that Simon Kohler is a layman either just in case anyone gets the wrong idea) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadyneman Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Thanks to John Upton too for his update on using the Class 33 wheels in the VEP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matloughe Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Someone tell me I am not crazy please? Despite the warnings on here and fully knowing the issues I've just bid on a 4-VEP on eBay and am currently in the lead - there is still some time to go so I expect to be out bid. (It was cheap basically) Never know... perhaps I will come to feel your pain. Cheers, ~ Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium zarniwhoop Posted October 13, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2011 Weight is definitely one option, but it would be easier to simply fix the running of the bogies on the other three coaches. Their improved running would give whatever motor mechanism the power coach has a lot less work to do to get it moving. Agreed - after happily running one of mine "forwards", I then tried it in "reverse" with 2.5 unpowered trailers leading (the half is because the motor is at the wrong end), only for it to derail at speed. After that, I tried adding some lead sheet to the end bogies (about 4gm in each). That just made it slow whenever the leading end arrived at one of the 18" corners on my test track, I then tried compensating for that by adding weight to the roof of the MBSO, over the motor (2p coins, 7 gm each, plus blutack). At 21gm I gave up because it wasn't helping - there is a limit to how much lead sheet will fit inside the MBSO around the motor bogie. Unfortunately, my stocks of motor bogies and Replica bogies are inadequate - I've got a pair of B4s sitting ready to try [ hmm, also with the tension locks on the wrong end ], and a B5 (kit, need to find some wheels for it) when I can find some M3.5 bolts, but only one 12mm Beetle (or alternatively, one SPUD) - previous tests with Bachmann MkI coaches suggest a single motor bogie won't be able to push a train around my tight curves. Hmm, perhaps I should try a pair of 14mm Beetles. More pressing, for me, are the fiddly couplings - my stock normally lives in boxes, and already I'm having difficulty coupling one of the DTCs so that its lights go on. Sad, because the internal ribbon connector is nearly small enough to use for coupling one coach to the next. All along, I've viewed this as "easier than building my MJT kit", but its turning out to be harder than I'd imagined. Also, it doesn't give me a lot of confidence about any of the magazine reviews. ĸen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2011 I may have missed the fact in the plethora of messages here, but I suggest that the letter be very clearly copied to the leading magazine editors - so Hornby is in no doubt that they are also aware of the problems RMWebbers have found. We can guess that those editors have an ear to the ground, and of course at least one senior member of a mag's staff regularly posts here in his own right, but it all helps to make Hornby aware that the news is being broadcast. Of course, there will not be a daring expose in any mag about "The Great Hornby VEP Scandal" but there may be the odd communication with Hornby, and certainly a few thoughts about their own test practices - but don't expect any of that to see the light of day! Just a thought. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Someone tell me I am not crazy please? Despite the warnings on here and fully knowing the issues I've just bid on a 4-VEP on eBay and am currently in the lead - there is still some time to go so I expect to be out bid. (It was cheap basically) Never know... perhaps I will come to feel your pain. Cheers, ~ Gary No, not crazy! If you can get it at a bargain price it becomes like any other modelling project. You are buying it fully aware of the work you may have to put in, so keep that in mind with your highest bidding price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I may have missed the fact in the plethora of messages here, but I suggest that the letter be very clearly copied to the leading magazine editors - so Hornby is in no doubt that they are also aware of the problems RMWebbers have found. We can guess that those editors have an ear to the ground, and of course at least one senior member of a mag's staff regularly posts here in his own right, but it all helps to make Hornby aware that the news is being broadcast. Of course, there will not be a daring expose in any mag about "The Great Hornby VEP Scandal" but there may be the odd communication with Hornby, and certainly a few thoughts about their own test practices - but don't expect any of that to see the light of day! Just a thought. You see, I'm wondering if my letter of complaint would be taken seriously by said magazine editors. One in particular, whose article I bought my 4VEP on the strength of its review, comes immediately to mind. Some of what has been written in the model railway press has been misleading, whether intentionally or not. The all wheel pickups comment by Ben Jones is one that flabbergasts me, as it simply isn't true. A simple glance under the model confirms that it doesn't have pickups on three out of the four coaches. Overall I don't know whether to feel cynical about the whole experience - Hornby had paid for advertisements in that issue of Model Rail, after all - but for the 4VEP which is fundamentally flawed at the basic level of performance, and more besides, to be given an 84% score in the same magazine that the Beattie Well Tank is also given an 84% score... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2011 The point of the "copy to" is to let Hornby know that everyone knows what you've found, and potentially to stimulate debate in private channels of communication, between Hornby and its business press. As I said, don't expect sackcloth and ashes from the mags over inaccurate reviews of this or any other product. They sell copies on the basis that - like RMWeb - what you read can be trusted, and generally that's probably true. They continue to receive review samples from manufacturers on the basis that the review will probably not be entirely unfavourable - and thus the product comes to be "acceptable" within the literate (not everyone bothers to actually buy the mag - see W H Smith at lunchtime!) part of the hobby. We do not know if some products are found to be so bad that they get sent back without a published review, of course. As I said, just a thought! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted October 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2011 There's a letter in this month's Hornby mag urging all you 4-VEP fans to stop picking fault with the model - in case it puts Hornby off from doing other EMUs such as a 4-CIG etc the parting shot is so I ask fellow readers and Southern modellers to think positive and to be grateful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted October 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2011 There's a letter in this month's Hornby mag urging all you 4-VEP fans to stop picking fault with the model - in case it puts Hornby off from doing other EMUs such as a 4-CIG etc That's fine. I'd like Bachmann to produce the 4CIG, TC etc. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted October 13, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) Quote so I ask fellow readers and Southern modellers to think positive and to be grateful! Positive thinking : "If Hornby dip their toes in the SR EMU waters again after this I hope they do a much better job." Being grateful : "I am very grateful that Bachmann has produced two extremely competent types of SR EMU which run well out of the box and closely resemble their prototypes" Positive thinking : "I am positive I am not prepared to buy a Hornby Vep based upon the lengthy and mostly unfavourable discussions here and elsewhere and considering the price" Being grateful : "I am very grateful that I didn't pre-order a Vep and that I waited until some had been assessed by competent and experienced modellers first". Edited October 13, 2011 by Gwiwer 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I don't know about experienced and competent in my case...! Just finished printing them up, putting them in envelopes and will be sending them off shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted October 13, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2011 I don't know about experienced and competent in my case...! Pretty much anyone here would be in that category. As opposed to the glass-case collectors or toy-train-round-the-table-top customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2011 I don't know about experienced and competent in my case...! Just finished printing them up, putting them in envelopes and will be sending them off shortly. Whatever the outcome, Simon, congrats on actually doing something about a problem, rather than just posting misery on here, which we all find a lot easier! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCAR6015 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) ADMIN EDIT - irrelevant text removed Sorry!! i dont wish to turn this thread into a wish list. Whenever someone says that it means they are about to. Let's stick to the 4VEP please. Edited October 13, 2011 by Mod6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) There's a letter in this month's Hornby mag urging all you 4-VEP fans to stop picking fault with the model - in case it puts Hornby off from doing other EMUs such as a 4-CIG etc the parting shot is "...so I ask fellow readers and Southern modellers to think positive and to be grateful!" On the basis of what I have read in this forum and elsewhere concerning the performance of the 4 VEP and Hornby's lack of response to those who are struggling with it, I sincerely hope Hornby are put off from ever making anymore Southern EMUs, thus leaving the territory open for others to step in! Edited October 13, 2011 by Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 At this point I would only be grateful if someone gave me a VEP. When I am spending my hard earned I don't have to be grateful, thank you very much !! and remember the old adage, if something is worth doing it's worth doing right or not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 To be fair chaps, this will be the first time I have directly contacted Hornby over it - and I'm pretty sure that is true of everyone else. No doubt some members of Hornby do read RMweb from time to time but we can't depend on it to get the message across. Going up the post office when I've stopped sneezing! Having a cold/man flu/black death/sniffle isn't very fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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