Lathes & M/C tools

[bertiedog]

Also you mentioned Popping out, this can be eliminated by using three add on tips, one set behind the jaw of the steady, one in front, and the third can either by the jaw without the tip or a tip fitted in a slit in the jaw. Each bolt on tip has a flat face to the work, sized to suit the diameter, and as you view from the tailstock there is no way for the work to "escape".

 

All these tips come from experience there are few books that cover these dodges with steadies, you learnt them in apprenticeship, on the shop floor.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

A small wooden lathe, yes, they will work, and work quite well, but it will take a bit of care to get the basics accurate.

 

There are articles on the net re-printing just pre-war and post war articles from Home Mechanic magazines that covered making simple lathes.

 

The minimum is a spindle, or motor tool, with a small chuck, then suitable mounted file work can be done in the style of a watchmakers lathe.

 

The next addition is a crosslide, these can be made with steel rods as runners, barely any machining, and then add a tailstock.

 

A possible simpler route may be Ebay and a cheap watchmakers lathe, these are basic frames that take extras like the tail stock and crosslide, and many makes are interchangeable, so it is possible to get a cheap frame, then add both bought and then home made(even on the lathe) extras.

 

Some Watchmakers lathes are expensive!!, but they are old un-branded types for sale, and a rusty old one can be restored. Size suits most model railway work.

 

The other type of small lathe to seek out is the Adept and it's cousins, a very simple post war UK made model engineer lathe, but can be brought up to date with care, they sometimes fetch good money, but old rusty examples do come up on ebay, usually unidentified make, but if you know what to look for, worth chasing.

 

 

The Picture shows a super Adept, the plainer ones have no leadscrew, but it can be added later, and lots of modern bits and pieces fit the Adept. Any motor will do, from DC heavy duty, up to fractional horsepower single phase, or a drill motor, sewing machine motor, or even from a washing machine,(they have been used)

 

The basic adept is quite accurate, its limit is the operator and whether you have the accessories to do the job. Basic adept types have gone for under £40 on Ebay, but a good super will be a lot more.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Item number: 290576458871 Adept super

Try the above on Ebay at the moment, bound to rise of course, but they appear quite regularly. It would need attention to a good overhaul, but the lathe itself can make further parts etc, and another lathe owner can often help out. It obviously needs a bit of Mechanical knowledge to use it but it is easy to pick up as you go along.

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Item number: 180677611587

 

Also at £30 with 11 hours to go, a very nice CAV Wade round bed lathe with screwcutting and change gears, I would be tempted myself, a fine quality lathe, that would out perform any modern FE lathe costing hundreds.

It may rocket on bids of course and there is postage, but you might be local for pickup!

 

Mentioned only as ideas, to show what's is around.

 

Stephen.

 

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

I'm thinking of buying one of the Proxxon drill sharpener's No.BSG220. Has any one any experience of using one of these? & are they worth the money?

 

OzzyO.

[bertiedog]

I have tried the Proxxon,and it works fine, but it was in a friends workshop not mine. Whether it is good value is up to you, it's just over £160.

 

There are other alternatives from the Picador type frame that goes on the side of any bench grinder, through Drill Doctor, and equivalent makers of cheaper models, and in the opposite direction pro-grinders from several makers.

 

The Proxxon works to DIN standard tip angles, and produces a tapering cone relief that falls away to the correct form. It most definitely produces the most vital requirement, the tip is exactly in the centre after grinding. It should still be examined and test drilled if the work is critical.

 

It does allow for some smaller than 3mm drills with adaptors, (I have forgotten the max it did). The grind finish produced is good, and the wheel can be re-dressed in situ to a good surface. The wheels are a medium grade, which leave a less smooth finish than factory, but more than good enough for most uses.

 

But like most grinding machines outside pro use it does have limits, as far as I can see it only does the DIN standard angle, so it cannot sharpen special drill like plastic long point, or shorter stub angles, as used with Carbide drills. It does take carbide type wheels.

 

There is no way it can flat dress the leading edge of the cutting point, and it cannot do 4 facet drill sharpening or split point tips. but do you need these?, as they are specialist.

 

Myself, I do off hand grinding by examination, but I have forty years experience to fall back on, I do not use curved relief, but flat, and usually grind to 4 facet, which gives a firmer cut without the snatch that conventionally sharpened drills give. A continuous falling curve is not actually needed for a drill to work, it is done by makers to make manufacture easy as the grinding is done in one pass, rather than the main grind and then the clearance of the trailing edge. The Proxxon duplicates what the makers do in manufacture.

 

I use diamond disks, 400 grit at 20,000RPM by a motor to do the grinding, they don't wear, and are thin enough to do the relief angle and split point, and can flat grind the front face of the cutting edge, even on smaller 2mm drills.

 

The jig is a Picador, the simplest and most basic, if a quick re-dress to standard is needed, used on a bench grinder fitted with a cup faced diamond wheel, this is 200 grit.

 

For very fine finish the 20,000RPM motor tool driven disks are made in 500 and 1000 grit., and handle both HSS and Carbide low angle points. The 1000 grit diamond leaves a mirror surface.

 

So it's up to the user, for straight forward grinding , then the Proxxon does exactly that, and accurately.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

The picture shows the two main types of grind, the conical, which is the manufacturers type, easy to grind in one sweep each side that trails away for clearance. Nothing but the leading edge and the Chisel point does any cutting work, the conical trailing area is out of contact with the metal, and can be flat if needed on hand grinding.

The Proxxon produces the exact match to the makers grind.

 

 

The other popular grind, the four facet, needs a special grinder like The Quorn , or a lathe with a tool post grinder, to produce, and as you can see has an actual point, this guides the drill better, and the clearance area angle is different to the major relief angle, giving a stronger edge to the cutting area. The Proxxon does not grind this type.

I have to say that 4 facet are a joy to use, they run true, and drill to size naturally, but are specialist. to grind.

 

Grinding the front of the cutting edge flat (used to prevent snatch) is not possible on the Proxxon. but could be added by hand to a Proxxon sharpened drill.

 

Split point drills are similar to the 4 facet, but are ground in one pass, then face relieved for the cutting face to cross at the tip. The trailing relief is ground away at the back separately. They drill fast and self centre, but are more difficult to grind except on the Quorn machine or equivalent. as the grind must leave the cutting edge passing through the centre exactly.

 

It would be possible to alter the holder on the Proxxon to grind thes points, but it would need a separate grinder to relieve the back edge, but it does not have to be done that accurately, as it is clearance only.

 

 

Hope this helps outline what requirements a machine needs, and the Proxxon meets the standard needs accurately, but at a price.

 

Stephen..

[brian_lnwrfan]

Hi All,

 

Apologies for resurrecting this thread, but I am seriously thinking of buying a lathe and have come across these two items, has anyone used either one of them, or has any comments about them (good or bad) ?

 

Do you think they are a good buy ?

 

See the following links:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-33893-Variable-Speed-Metalworking/dp/B005OJ9HSS/ref=pd_sim_sbs_diy_3

 

 

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cl300m-metal-lathe

 

Or does anyone have any better recommendations for a different make of lathe at around the same price range ?.

 

Many thanks in anticipation.

 

All the best,

 

Brian

[buffalo]

These both look to be variations on the Chinese-made Sieg tools that are available in different sizes and from several sources, though in a range of different specifications. Whilst they are all worth looking at, I believe this one from Arc Euro Trade (usual happy customer disclaimer) has the best spec, especially the 500w Brushless DC motor.

 

Nick

 

ps. I'm not sure whether the two in your links are the C2 or C3 model (main difference is distance between centres) but the source mentioned above offers their version of the C3 at significanly lower price than in either of your links.

Edited April 28, 2012 by buffalo

[bertiedog]

The lathes shown are both Chinese from the same maker Sieg, although different plants make them and some come from Tiawan. Each importer specifies the details, but the basic lathe is the same, but may vary in bed length, the classics being 7x10, and 7x14.

 

The big difference is the motor, earlier, and current cheaper versions, have an AC mains motor, with electronic control, but the latest and more expensive have a version with a brushless DC motor, which is very superior at lower speeds, with more power. Similar speed range over all.

 

Most of these lathes share the same spares and a multitude of accessories.

 

So investigate the motor, for instance Warco and Axminster offer the DC version, but you may be able to source a cheaper mains motor type, they still work OK. In theory the motor can be changed later on, dependant on supply of spares and cost.

Arc Euro Tools, Chester, Warco, Clarks, Axminster, Draper, and others supply these small lathes.

 

The net has lots of user sites for these machines, usually refered to as 7x10 in the US. The advice and articles apply to all models within reason. Some like Harbour in the States are cheap basic spec, some, unlike Warco and Axminster in the UK which are top spec.

 

Chester promote theirs with "better" control boards, although this does not apply to latest DC brushless types, where a different electronic control board is used.

 

Early Chinese made boards were considered poorly made, current are now thought quite OK.

The engineering on these is good, finish reasonable, accuracy high. Convenience may be improved by the user, like the release for the tailstock.

Stephen.

Edited April 28, 2012 by bertiedog

[brian_lnwrfan]

These both look to be variations on the Chinese-made Sieg tools that are available in different sizes and from several sources, though in a range of different specifications. Whilst they are all worth looking at, I believe this one from Arc Euro Trade (usual happy customer disclaimer) has the best spec, especially the 500w Brushless DC motor.

 

Nick

 

ps. I'm not sure whether the two in your links are the C2 or C3 model (main difference is distance between centres) but the source mentioned above offers their version of the C3 at significanly lower price than in either of your links.

 

Hi Nick (buffalo),

 

Many thanks for the very quick response, must have been waiting for my post.

 

I take your point about the Sieg machines, not too sure about them.

 

However, have had a quick look at your suggested link, and agree the spec looks reasonably good, especially the extra distance between centres of 400 mm as opposed to 300 mm on the CL300.

 

One point though, I notice the machines come in either Metric or Imperial, presumably this is the screw lead, do you know if this can be interchangeable by purchasing the other screw lead ?

 

Thanks again for your reply.

 

All the best,

 

Brian.

[brian_lnwrfan]

The lathes shown are both Chinese from the same maker Sieg, although different plants make them and some come from Tiawan. Each importer specifies the details, but the basic lathe is the same, but may vary in bed length, the classics being 7x10, and 7x14.

 

The big difference is the motor, earlier, and current cheaper versions, have an AC mains motor, with electronic control, but the latest and more expensive have a version with a brushless DC motor, which is very superior at lower speeds, with more power. Similar speed range over all.

 

Most of these lathes share the same spares and a multitude of accessories.

 

So investigate the motor, for instance Warco and Axminster offer the DC version, but you may be able to source a cheaper mains motor type, they still work OK. In theory the motor can be changed later on, dependant on supply of spares and cost.

Arc Euro Tools, Chester, Warco, Clarks, Axminster, Draper, and others supply these small lathes.

 

The net has lots of user sites for these machines, usually refered to as 7x10 in the US. The advice and articles apply to all models within reason. Some like Harbour in the States are cheap basic spec, some, unlike Warco and Axminster in the UK which are top spec.

 

Chester promote theirs with "better" control boards, although this does not apply to latest DC brushless types, where a different electronic control board is used.

 

Early Chinese made boards were considered poorly made, current are now thought quite OK.

The engineering on these is good, finish reasonable, accuracy high. Convenience may be improved by the user, like the release for the tailstock.

Stephen.

 

 

Hi Stephen (bertiedog),

 

Also, many thanks for your speedy reply.

 

I must say what you have written, is a wealth of information and just the sort needed for me to make the right choice.

 

I will certainly take on board all you have written, (Nick as well), and shop around.

 

I’m just about to severely bend the wallet and re-equip my small workshop, so positively need to make the right choices, hopefully gained, from more experienced fellows like yourself.

 

Stephen, this is exactly the type of information I needed, and is very helpful.

 

Thank you, and Nick (previous reply) for what you have both written, it is very much appreciated.

 

All the best,

 

Brian.

[bertiedog]

The lathes are basically a metric unit, but the leadscrew is interchangeable, (as an extra), on all units, (but check with your supplier to make absolutely sure.) The change gear set for the scewcutting is the same for each, it includes the vital 127 tooth gear for convertion.

 

The handwheeels are marked for metric in the UK, some have imperial, but this makes no difference, such markings are for guidance, not measurement. Some models have built in digital style readouts, but although these work, again you should not really be using them!!!

 

The main internal gear in the headstock was once suspect, it is plastic, but there are cheap replacements and even metal ones from Euro Arc if it goes. The main reason they go, is over enthusiastic very deep cuts in steel.

 

If you are new to lathes in general don't forget most screwcutting will actually be done by dies or dieheads etc, so the gearcutting may be quite minor in real use. Also some BA threads are impossible due to the odd pitches.

 

All metric threads can be cut, as can most Imperial Whitworth and US threads.

 

If you are intending to screw cut a lot, then make sure you get the brushless motor, it is superior at the low cutting speeds that screwcutting demands.

 

Chucks are freely available, as are good collet holders in smaller sizes. The most usefull addition is a toolholder that has interchangeable inserts, they are made, or you can build them. It allows centre height adjustment, and allows instant swaps.But the lathe as standard can be run with packing under the tools for the moment.

 

The Sieg is quite good as a horizontal mill, they make a right angle plate to mount a vice on the tool post. There are quite a few videos on youtube about the 7x10 family of lathes.

 

Stephen. (Buffalo's reply was posted during my reply, did not mean to duplicate anything).

Edited April 28, 2012 by bertiedog

[buffalo]

Hi Brian,

 

Firstly, thanks to Stephen for adding the extra information; he knows more about machine tools than I ever will.

 

One thought on prices concerns the extent of any preparation work included in the price. I know that Arc Euro supply machines in the condition they arrive from the factory. This means they are covered in protective grease and it is up to you to strip, clean and prepare the machine. They do provide detailed instructions that you can download to see what is involved. Other suppliers may do some or all of this work for you and this may justify a higher price. It's probably best to ask the suppliers about this before buying, unless others can provide more info about particular suppliers.

 

I notice that the Warco version has a 550W motor and a speed range of "50-2500 rpm (infinitely variable)", so this may also be a brushless DC motor, though you'd need to check. Their price appears very competitive.

 

Nick

[brian_lnwrfan]

Hi Stephen, Nick,

 

Many thanks for the extra information, I am overwhelmed by the support you are giving me.

 

However, it does need the right info before one can make a sensible decision on what to get for one’s money, I would hate to buy something quickly, then to find it is not suitable for purpose and may not be of the right quality for doing the work, so time taken considering my options is well worth it in the end.

Also getting the right information from people such as yourselves is paramount (many thanks for that).

 

One thing that did surprise me is that you mention the head stock on these Chinese lathes is plastic (although perhaps not so surprised, since most things these days are made of some form of plastic or other)

 

I even spent yesterday evening looking at second hand Myford lathes, but all the re-conditioned ones were too expensive, and those around my price bracket seemed to just about worn out and need considerable attention, so will pursue another avenue.

 

Thank you both for putting up with my ignorance, and helping to unravel the minefield of the modellers lathe and which to buy.

 

All your efforts are very much appreciated.

 

All the best,

 

Brian.

[buffalo]

Hi Brian,

 

I think you've misunderstood what Stephen was getting at. It is the gears inside the headstock that are made of plastic. You can see them in the preparation guide pdf from Arch Euro -- worth looking at even if you get one from elsewhere or never strip one down.

 

Nick

[bertiedog]

I was just about to reply, it is the gear that is plastic, and Euro Arc do a metal version should you wish, they are tougher. The metal gear fits all the various types and actual factories variants.

 

The inside is worth a look in preparation for use, clean any excess factory grease and add more top quality grease and a spot of oil on all the moving parts. The lathe shoud be check that the headstock spindle is not actual loose, (blindingly obvious), and the bearings adjusted, if you are experieced, although all I have worked on were OK. The lathe shoud be run in, about an hour at medium/lower speed, and on both ranges, and the reverse will do, it settles the bearings and any problems that appear can be adjusted out. It will quieten down a lot after running in and a good grease job. The brushless motors are quieter any way, especially at low speeds.

 

The transit grease, if still there, is easily removed with white spirit, or low odour lamp fuel, lots of rags, and an old towel or two, and then a wipe over with paraffin and oil mix, which is the best storage oil, easy to store, no mess. Use ordinary car oil on the bed and screws, or a medium shop oil.

 

To start the grease removal, use a hot air paint stripper, or hair dryer to warm,( only warm! ), the lathe, or a room heater etc., to warm the lot.

 

The internal gears can be lubricated with a "loaded" grease, PTFE or molyslip, it is a bit lower friction.

 

One issue is the hole where the leads screw shaft goes into the head stock, grit and swarf can enter, so cut a disc of felt to fit the hole, and grease it, it will block the swarf, but allow the shaft to turn.

 

The electrics are quite sound and safe on these lathes, however , with experience and for the users own convenience, you may wish to remove the plastic guards (and the interlocks), full details are on the net. The main power switch must be left as is, it is a safety lock with zero switching, power off, and it shuts down. It will not re-start on it's own.

 

Stephen.

Edited April 29, 2012 by bertiedog

[brian_lnwrfan]

Hi Stephen, Nick,

 

Gentlemen, first apologies for not responding sooner, but had to go out almost immediately after my last message yesterday, and have been out all morning today, in fact have only just switch my PC on and read your messages.

 

You are quite right, I did get the wrong end of the stick in thinking that the whole head stock casing may have been plastic, hence the query.

However, it’s an easy mistake, since they now make large airliners out of plastic ( the Boeing 777) I wonder if that’s made in China.

 

I also just managed to download Nicks link from Arc Euro Trade about the preparation of a C3 lathe, and I now see exactly what you mean, there seems to be quite a few plastic bits in those lathes.

 

I think it would be prudent to replace them with the metal counterparts right from the start and not wait till they break or fail.

 

I have also been looking at some other forums regarding the Chinese lathes, and it seems that they should be used very gently, i.e. not try to cut too much off in one go, certainly less than 0.050†as this was considered too much.

 

Also in some cases, there appeared to be a question of accuracy, though nothing specific was mentioned.

 

Still I shall have to dig a little further before I finally commit to buy.

 

Thank you again both for putting up with my ignorance, and helping to better understand these Chinese lathes.

 

All your further information is very much appreciated.

 

All the best,

 

Brian.

[bertiedog]

In practice these Chinese small lathes are quite accurate, but you have to define accuracy and what other people mean by accurate. Don't forget a lot of users are non-professional, and may never have had the experience or training on lathes. The bed, headstock, bearings, cross slide and tool post and tailstock are quite accurate, as good as any other lathe in the class. The morse tapers are exact and well finished.

 

However there are adjustments to make and allow for, that really apply to all lathes.

 

Issues like backlash and adjustment of gib strips don't bother experieneced turners, but can really annoy a newcomer who does not realise the importance or complete unimportance.

 

Backlash in leadscrews, (movement not fully controlled by the screw movement), is un-important, it is taken up naturally if you take operations in the correct order, and do not use the dials as measurement devices!! All lathes bar CNC have backlash. (The Seig can be converted to full CNC operation, with anti-back lash leadscrews).

 

The bigger issue with all small lathes is the tightness of the gib strips on the movements, they must be adjusted very, very, carefully, and are worth initial attention by you, by stripping them out, when the lathe is new, check the strips are polished and fully deburred, and the adjustment screws bear on them evenly. ( The scew tips can be burred etc).

 

Adjust, and adjust, again, and again, till you see how it works, the end screws first, (unless a pair!), and then the middle screws. The strips can be coated with moly grease, or PTFE grease, to advantage.

 

When adjusted the movements should be free, but not loose, with silky operation, no tight spots.

 

Too loose, and the tools chatter, ruining the finish.

To tight and you can't move the tooling smoothly.

 

Don't forget for the very best cut, the out of use movement should be locked off, by tightening the middle screw, which seems a lot of extra work to reset by a newcomer, but is worth it for the best finishes.

 

The Seig has a "major" design flaw, there is no main saddle lock, but this is quite vital for parting off, and fortunately is curable in an afternoon, there are quick projects on the net with designs to add simple saddle locks, and can be made on the new lathe!!

 

Also you may wish the make the gib strip screws better by fitting allen headed screws. These can also have the tip rounded off in the lathe to bear better on the strips, again a short afternoon project.

 

If you are into high precision IC engine work etc, then fit repacement bronze gib strips, home made to match the steel ones, they make adjustment very smooth at higher tightness. High precision collet chucks are made to suit the lathe.

 

The tailstock is locked by a spanner nut, this is easily change to a lever cam lock, kits are made, or an afternoon project with instructions on the net!!!

 

If you are new to lathes try to understand the setting of the tailstock, the centre line is adjustable, and this foxes newcomer, it must be in line with the headstock, do not trust markings, it has to be tested.

Put a morse tip in the tailstock and the head stock , or turn a tip in the chuck. bring the tailstock forward and trap a coin size disk of brass or similar in the gap. turn the lathe by hand and the disk will wobble if the tailstock is out of line.

Adjust the tailstock, till the disk stops woobling, and do a test drilled hole into some scrap to see clean drilling, then mark the tailstock with your own test position for guidance in future. Once set, best left, but it will be moved for taper turning, and should be checked before important work.

 

 

Most other complaints and comments are about comparison with other makes, types of knobs, (replaceable to taste), non British style operation, like knob rotation, the Seig are based on US South Bend practices.

 

The "cheap finish" varies with the spec set by the Supplier and has constantly improved.

 

Depth of cut is the same as any other small lathe of these dimentions, it depends more on the setup and the standard of the tools. The Seig will cut 1/8th off free cut steel, with a sharp HSS Tool, slighly less with insert carbide tools or carbide ended tools. They will take heavier cuts than the Sherline lathe for instance.

 

It cuts brass to any reasonable cut, the sharpness of the tool is vital, and a small bench grinder to do tool sharpening is an absolute must to grind tools to match the job. Get a fine grit wheel on one side and course grit on the other, with a spare green grit wheel for the carbide tools.(or a diamond cup wheel).

 

To start with, insert tools can be used, they work straight from the box, but do have limits, a rounded tip for a start, making sharp internal corners impossible. So some general purpose HSS tools will be need as well, and these will be home produced.

 

The other investment for the Seig is an interchangeable tool post, this makes getting centre height very easy, and allows tool swapping.

 

Apart from the above points the lathe is pretty much standard and a good machine. It cannot compare to a Myford or Colchester, mainly on capacity, but with care will produce the same results.

 

hope this helps,

Stephen.

Edited April 30, 2012 by bertiedog

[Pannier Tank]

You can see them in the preparation guide pdffrom Arch Euro -- worth looking at even if you get one from elsewhere or never strip one down.

 

Nick

 

Is it really essential to strip the machine down to this level just to get a working machine?

[brian_lnwrfan]

In practice these Chinese small lathes are quite accurate, but you have to define accuracy and what other people mean by accurate. Don't forget a lot of users are non-professional, and may never have had the experience or training on lathes. The bed, headstock, bearings, cross slide and tool post and tailstock are quite accurate, as good as any other lathe in the class. The morse tapers are exact and well finished.

 

However there are adjustments to make and allow for, that really apply to all lathes.

 

Issues like backlash and adjustment of gib strips don't bother experieneced turners, but can really annoy a newcomer who does not realise the importance or complete unimportance.

 

Backlash in leadscrews, (movement not fully controlled by the screw movement), is un-important, it is taken up naturally if you take operations in the correct order, and do not use the dials as measurement devices!! All lathes bar CNC have backlash. (The Seig can be converted to full CNC operation, with anti-back lash leadscrews).

 

The bigger issue with all small lathes is the tightness of the gib strips on the movements, they must be adjusted very, very, carefully, and are worth initial attention by you, by stripping them out, when the lathe is new, check the strips are polished and fully deburred, and the adjustment screws bear on them evenly. ( The scew tips can be burred etc).

 

Adjust, and adjust, again, and again, till you see how it works, the end screws first, (unless a pair!), and then the middle screws. The strips can be coated with moly grease, or PTFE grease, to advantage.

 

When adjusted the movements should be free, but not loose, with silky operation, no tight spots.

 

Too loose, and the tools chatter, ruining the finish.

To tight and you can't move the tooling smoothly.

 

Don't forget for the very best cut, the out of use movement should be locked off, by tightening the middle screw, which seems a lot of extra work to reset by a newcomer, but is worth it for the best finishes.

 

The Seig has a "major" design flaw, there is no main saddle lock, but this is quite vital for parting off, and fortunately is curable in an afternoon, there are quick projects on the net with designs to add simple saddle locks, and can be made on the new lathe!!

 

Also you may wish the make the gib strip screws better by fitting allen headed screws. These can also have the tip rounded off in the lathe to bear better on the strips, again a short afternoon project.

 

If you are into high precision IC engine work etc, then fit repacement bronze gib strips, home made to match the steel ones, they make adjustment very smooth at higher tightness. High precision collet chucks are made to suit the lathe.

 

The tailstock is locked by a spanner nut, this is easily change to a lever cam lock, kits are made, or an afternoon project with instructions on the net!!!

 

If you are new to lathes try to understand the setting of the tailstock, the centre line is adjustable, and this foxes newcomer, it must be in line with the headstock, do not trust markings, it has to be tested.

Put a morse tip in the tailstock and the head stock , or turn a tip in the chuck. bring the tailstock forward and trap a coin size disk of brass or similar in the gap. turn the lathe by hand and the disk will wobble if the tailstock is out of line.

Adjust the tailstock, till the disk stops woobling, and do a test drilled hole into some scrap to see clean drilling, then mark the tailstock with your own test position for guidance in future. Once set, best left, but it will be moved for taper turning, and should be checked before important work.

 

 

Most other complaints and comments are about comparison with other makes, types of knobs, (replaceable to taste), non British style operation, like knob rotation, the Seig are based on US South Bend practices.

 

The "cheap finish" varies with the spec set by the Supplier and has constantly improved.

 

Depth of cut is the same as any other small lathe of these dimentions, it depends more on the setup and the standard of the tools. The Seig will cut 1/8th off free cut steel, with a sharp HSS Tool, slighly less with insert carbide tools or carbide ended tools. They will take heavier cuts than the Sherline lathe for instance.

 

It cuts brass to any reasonable cut, the sharpness of the tool is vital, and a small bench grinder to do tool sharpening is an absolute must to grind tools to match the job. Get a fine grit wheel on one side and course grit on the other, with a spare green grit wheel for the carbide tools.(or a diamond cup wheel).

 

To start with, insert tools can be used, they work straight from the box, but do have limits, a rounded tip for a start, making sharp internal corners impossible. So some general purpose HSS tools will be need as well, and these will be home produced.

 

The other investment for the Seig is an interchangeable tool post, this makes getting centre height very easy, and allows tool swapping.

 

Apart from the above points the lathe is pretty much standard and a good machine. It cannot compare to a Myford or Colchester, mainly on capacity, but with care will produce the same results.

 

hope this helps,

Stephen.

 

Hi Stephen,

 

Again you have overwhelmed me by you superb and honest advice about the C3 mini lathe.

 

This is far more than I had dared hope for and gives me much food for thought.

 

It has also given me the courage to take that leap into the dark regarding which mini lathe to buy, so I suppose now it’s a question of when and where to buy.

 

My only worry now is that I don’t get too addicted to the lathe when I get it.

 

Many thanks again Stephen, it’s been a pleasure communicating with you.

 

I will try and keep you posted as and when I get the lathe, and my first experience using it.

 

All the best,

 

Brian.

[bertiedog]

Posted Today, 17:54

 

buffalo, on 29 April 2012 - 14:36 , said:

 

You can see them in the preparation guide pdffrom Arch Euro -- worth looking at even if you get one from elsewhere or never strip one down.

 

Nick

 

Is it really essential to strip the machine down to this level just to get a working machine?

 

 

No..... and..... Yes... I think they are over egging what needs to be done quite frankly, but if EuroArc genuinely offer all of this work as a prep package and fully g/tee the work, then it may be worth the extra.

 

At the least, the PDF explains fitting the parts as required, and they offer conversions for a metal gear and taper roller bearings. I would not strip so far as they do, but test and assess what's needed as you clean it up and grease things, ......priorities are adjustments to clean the fettled gib strips, no need to touch the headstock or the main spindle.

 

The front lead screw can be removed, and the rack checked as they describe, but it is not vital to the first lathe tryout. The same applies to tailstock.

 

I woud remove the chuck, carefully clean and re-fit to learn how to do it...............same with tool post etc..

 

Do not touch the electrics, un-needed unless a very full service is being done, changing bearings etc.

 

I believe you should speak to Mr Warren at Warco and point out what Euro Arc suggest and see his reaction. (same applies to all importers). I have no connections with anyone, but did purchase my 1427 from Mr Warren and found him helpful.( ....Yes, 14 inch centre and 27 cap., a bit bigger! )

 

As far as I am aware his lathes are fully checked out in the up front price. Same applies to Axminster, but even with Warco and Axminster costing more, I would silll adjust the gib strips, they are vital to quality work.

 

Mind you, these lathes are very easy to work on for service, and the work in the PDF would be within a capable home mechanic in about a days work. All that cannot be done easily is the slight machining to reduce backlash, but you can do that later on anyway, it does not stop the lathe being fully used in the meantime.

 

In effect you can use a Warco/Axminster/Clarke/Chester versions out of the box, but keep the service issues in mind, to get the best from the lathe. I suspect the Euro would be fine out of the box, but if they charge less for the unfettled machine, then, there is the explanation.

 

At the moment with slow sales, be very brutal, ask for the best price, cash discount, and expect extras to be thrown in!.... and try to budget for the Brushless motor if possible, and make it clear you expect proper prep within reason...and get free/ or included delivery, although small, they weigh a lot!!

 

Stephen.

Edited April 30, 2012 by bertiedog

[Pannier Tank]

Hello Stephen,

 

Thank you for your detailed reply. As you say,the PDF does provide some useful information, I just don't fancy stripping a new machine down to that level. I have a long ambition to build a 5" LMS 3F (Jinty) or a 57xx / 8750 Pannier maybe something to look forward to in retirement. I have most if not all of the Model Engineer articles on the Martin Evans Jinty.

 

I have been looking at the Chester Lathes, must get along to one of their shops and take a look someday.

 

I've enjoyed reading your postings, very informative.

[polybear]

I've been using a Chester DB10 at College (Model Engineering Class) and it seems pretty reasonable to me (from a novice point of view). Decent Myfords come at a price (there's plenty of abused junk out there I'm sure, though no doubt restorable to former glory). And Myford tooling (even secondhand) commands myford premiums it seems. So it's worth thinking not only about the basic lathe price but also about what tooling you'll want in the future (chucks etc.). Add the lot up then compare makes - the difference may surprise you. HTH

 

Brian

[bertiedog]

The DS10 is the next size up Chinese lathe, very much based on old Southbend style, and as capable as a Myford in terms of capacity, if not in off the shelf accessories, or quality.

 

It is pushing a 7x10 or the C3 to the limits with a five inch gauge loco, no trouble for the experienced, but might throw a newcomer.

 

The art is not to push too hard on the smaller lathe, take big castings slowly, it is not factory piece work, and spend time understanding making sure things are properly adjusted for such heavy work.

 

If you use a 7x10 or any small version, for a 5 inch loco then replacing the saddle gibs with brass or better still bronze, is utterly vital, the heavy work blows and wear may be too much for the Chinese steel originals, again a days work to replace them overall. The steel they use is hard and brittle. For a de-luxe replacement use gauge plate, heat softened at red heat, sawn, drilled and filed to shape, and then made glass hard with red heat and quenched, then heat tempered to medium hard.to soft.

 

The 7x10/14 lathe has good capacity for 5 inch, but the toolpost is stretched a bit at a 6 inch wheel!!!!

 

For live steam a better choice would be a 3.5 gauge loco as a first go, much more in keeping with the practical limits in size that the 7x10 can handle. Try an "LBSCR" design, (Curly Lawrence). his designs never expected much more than a basic Zyto or round bed Drummond etc., to be available to the builders.

 

Stephen

Edited May 1, 2012 by bertiedog