Lathes & M/C tools

[bertiedog]

Locked movements are a basic of single pass cuts!!!

The CVA miller was a vertical Keiney and Trecker (KT) miller made under licensce by the Hove, Brighton, in Sussex, UK based Engineering group CVA, very well known machine tool makers. Very nice machines, solid and no vibration, huge castings for stability. They were made from 1948 in the UK under the Marshall plan to re-equip UK firms after the war, CVA made lathes, Mills and grinders of all types.

The mill had 4 foot x 2 foot table movements plus 2 vertical, not enormous, handy for 5 inch locomotive model engineering sizes though......and a very large range of speeds and auto feeds, all mechanical programmable..Much more robust than a Bridgeport.

Similar KT model, but smaller than the CVA version, same outline.

Stephen.

[ozzyo]

Hello Birtiedog / All,

 

so nothing exotic then just a bog standard knee type of milling M/C.

 

OzzyO.

[PhilEakins]

Now for something non-controversial (I hope!).

 

When I bought my Unimat Classic SL : this one -

 

 

I also bought the automatic long feed, which ends up in a big red plastic thingy which includes a shear pin, thus -

 

 

I'm adding the pictures as Emco rather economically re-used names.

 

Thinking ahead, I also got the spares pack including belts and several shear pins.

 

Now, I am renowned for my ham fistedness and I am sure to use the remaining shear pins sooner or later so I need a supplier to replace them. You knowledgeable folks might be able to point me in the right direction as there is no-one on the net I can readily identify selling the part?

 

Thanks.

 

Phil

 

PS Sorry for the fuzzy focus.

 

PPS The collet cluch/mandrill converter has arrived and is a very nicely finished bit of kit. It does exactly as it was described. Now I need some collets, luckily they are at the cheaper end of the market!

[-missy-]

Hello.

 

I forgot about this thread and seeing it again reminded me about something....

 

I am on the look out for a small boring bar for my lathe. Something that can bore out holes sub-4mm ish so it has to be small. The ones I have seen so far are either tipped tools for CNC machines or for larger holes.

 

Has anyone come across anything?

 

Thanks

 

Missy

[PhilEakins]

Hello.

 

I forgot about this thread and seeing it again reminded me about something....

 

I am on the look out for a small boring bar for my lathe. Something that can bore out holes sub-4mm ish so it has to be small. The ones I have seen so far are either tipped tools for CNC machines or for larger holes.

 

Has anyone come across anything?

 

Thanks

 

Missy

 

What is the lathe?

 

Phil

 

PS And I should have said - are you boring with a tool between centres or from the tool post?

[bertiedog]

For very small bored holes, then use an end mill,.... sound crazy?.....no, mount in lathe tool post and set one tooth to centre height, and set the tool tip towards you, so the side of the mill does not cut, only the tip and face end of the mill. Centre drill the hole and drill out the centre, then use the mill to micro bore the hole.

 

It works for as small as the mills or slot drills you can obtain, 1.5 are obtainable which will bore 1.7 upwards.

 

Obviously the limit is the depth of the slightly angled mill, small HSS mills are surprisingly rigid, and the finish is excellent.

 

The whole idea works at any size milling cutter and I use 8mm cutters for larger boring, which reach 35mm into the bore.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

On the shear pins, Identify if it is steel, with a magnet, and if steel use mild steel and make new ones in the lathe.

If non magnetic it may be brass or phosphor bronze, try brass first, and if it breaks move to bronze, then mild steel.

It cannot be very strong, my 1620 Warco uses 2mm steel pins, or nails or anything handy in an emergency, and this takes the drive to a saddle that weighs more than the whole unimat, for both screw cutting and auto feeds on both motions.

 

Small mild steel steel nails may well be the best spares to keep in stock!!

 

Stephen.

[Adrian]

I am on the look out for a small boring bar for my lathe. Something that can bore out holes sub-4mm ish so it has to be small. The ones I have seen so far are either tipped tools for CNC machines or for larger holes.

Has anyone come across anything?

For something that small you could try making your own. What material are you boring and to what depth?

 

For boring out some 7mm axleboxes I made my own D-bit. This is basically a bit of silver steel bar, with a flat filed on it and then hardened and tempered.

As posted here with axlebox boring

 

 

 

 

[Horsetan]

...CVA miller was a vertical Keiney and Trecker (KT) miller made under licensce by the Hove, Brighton, in Sussex, UK based Engineering group CVA, very well known machine tool makers. Very nice machines, solid and no vibration, huge castings for stability.....The mill had 4 foot x 2 foot table movements plus 2 vertical, not enormous, handy for 5 inch locomotive model engineering sizes though......and a very large range of speeds and auto feeds, all mechanical programmable..Much more robust than a Bridgeport.

Similar KT model, but smaller than the CVA version, same outline.

 

Impressive, but slightly unrealistic size for most people's homes!

[bertiedog]

The CVA mill was fairly old by the 1990's but worked accurately, and had too, as it was used for optical test equipment manufacture.

 

The power movements could be programmed to an extent, on turret mounted limiters, which if set correctly gave good repeat cuts. Very solid and quiet, vibration free even for fly cutting, and excellent slow speed feeds. It's bulk required a strengthened reinforced concrete floor, and the size was far beyond home uses.

 

My own milling machine at home is a modified Hobbymat on the proper co-ordinate base they used to make. The reason for using the Hobbymat is the ability to raise and lower the main motor unit accurately, despite having a round column. The column has a gib stripped rail up the back of the column that maintains a very good accuracy as it is re-set at a new level or for repeat long depth stokes.

 

Most Korean and Chinese round column mills do not maintain the co-ordinates when the head is moved up or down, they rely purely on the quill, or use a rectangular or square column for this action to be accurate

 

Also the milling head on the Hobbymat can operate horizontally, and the mill can act as a lathe, as the nose can take chucks. This allows large diameter items to be turned, especially in wood.My Warco lathe can swing 13 inches anyway, but occasionally larger items are needed

 

The co-ordinate base was not accurate as delivered, it had the gib strips edges fouling the flat machined surfaces, and required a careful re-build to get free running accurate cuts. The basic machining was OK, but assembly let them down on details.

 

The current mill, and the Hobbymat lathe, have been simplified to keep cost down, but I believe that Sieg in mainland China are taking over the Prazi Suppe brand soon anyway. Sieg are the makers of the Austrian Unimat range already.

[polybear]

Hi all,

 

This website is also excellent for posting questions (Wanted - Information) regarding machine tools etc. Also for buying & selling machinery & related items (anything from a nut to a lathe). All completely free (even For Sale Ads.) and recommended (I've bought & sold tooling there):

 

http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/

 

This link is also very useful if you are thinking of purchasing a lathe/milling machine and would like to know more about particular makes and models:

 

http://www.lathes.co.uk/

 

No connections other than a happy user.

 

HTH

 

Brian

[ozzyo]

Hello All,

 

a couple of photos to show why you should where safety specs.

 

This brush was brand new when I started cleaning up two castings. The bristles came of with such force that they stuck in my tee shirt and jeans. So think what could happen it one went into your eye!

 

OzzyO.

[bertiedog]

Looks like a Dremel fit type, yes, they are lethal to eyes, but tameable if the speed is lowered right down. Bigger workshop brush types are only run at about 800 rpm, but most of the motor tools run at 10,000 plus, unless the electronic versions, even then they run at 2/3000 rpm, really too fast for any brush.

 

With the cheaper FE wire brushes, steel or brass wire, I run them at speed for a few moments, to spread the wires out, then put a few drops of medium superglue on the base of the brush wires, letting it soak into the brush base where it is clamped. Let it set, and then repeat till the wires are solid with the clamping disc.

 

This helps retain the wires in place and trebles the life of the brushes, and does not affect the brushes cleaning action, and always use glasses!!

 

Stephen.

[richard_t]

Just to show that I can make "stuff", here is a picture of a fine height adjuster for my Trend T4 router. The Trend fine height adjuster is solid which limits how shallow a cut one can take and still use the adjuster. "My" version is hollow allowing a full range of adjustment. The only change I'd make would be to harden the bottom bit which is gripped in the router by a screw to lock it into position. It was really a test bit of turning, knurling and tapping with the idea of getting something useable at the end.

 

 

The next job is to fit a DRO onto the spindle of my mill. I have the DRO and fittings kit, but I need a couple of stand-offs as the body of the DRO is a couple of mm away from the body of the mill. Right I thought, I'll use the fixed steady so I don't waste a load of rod, something I'd read in the writings of Harold Hall. Also I'd not used a fixed steady before. So I fix it to the lathe bed, chuck up some steel, and start fiddling with the arms of the steady, once done, I stand back, take a look and thing there's something not right here.

 

 

Although this picture is staged, the steady is right up to the chuck, and the material, 1/2" bar, is a lot bigger than I was going to use. The top arm is way out of the centre line. My initial thoughts would be to mill the slot for the arm wider elongate the hole for the screw, and then epoxy/screw a replacement strip of metal into the left hand side of the, now, widened slot. Does anyone else have any thoughts on the best way forward? It's still under warranty, so I could just contact the manufacturer. Or perhaps it's something I've done/not done.

 

Cheers.

[sagaguy]

No,It`s nothing you`ve done,Its the casting of the body thats been machined wrongly,the bottom RH support dosen`t look to happy either.If its not a problem,get in touch with the supplier,this really is a bad piece of manufacture.

 

Best of luck,Ray.

[richard_t]

Thanks I think I will get in touch with supplier. Warco, where I got the lathe/steadies/etc from, have been pretty good so far.

 

I think I'll try the traveling steady as well, whilst I'm at it.

 

Thanks - glad it's not me (for once!)

[bertiedog]

Back for replacement, but you may not realise it does not really matter at all where the steady points touch the work that much, it is always on the surface pitch, and will still guide the work just fine.

 

It is more critical on a two point travelling steady to have the point passing through the centre line accurately, but again it does not matter critically.

 

I expect it is the arms badly made, the slots are probably in line, or should be!

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Just been studying the picture, is the whole thing down to the steady not being on the centre line? this puts the vertical out, and the left hand one is extended , with the right hand less so........

I happent to have a Warco 1324, which the steady somewhat resembles, and it can fit wrongly on the bed on my version, it may just be set on the bed wrong, or indeed has a fault in the machining that contacts the bed, which is double vee's on mine.

My version may be bigger as it has a hinge for the whole top rather than the open face entry, but it will fit in reverse which puts it out of line.

Have you a photo further back to show the fitting on the bed?

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Is this one of the Sieg Type mini lathes ? the small Warco, if so then the steady can be fitted wrongly, according to an owner who is a friend. I have not got the lathe here to check his statement, as the entry would appear to have to be at the front, as the top does not hinge in the same way as the bigger lathes.

As so much of the output of these makers is CNC machining they are not often far out on machining, and it may be down to the fitting in some way, it is certain it is that fact it is off the lathe centre line that is behind it.

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

if it is this type, which is from a Sieg Mini lathe,(yours looks the next lathe size up), then the centre line is determined and fixed by the V grove on the left, and if faulty machining must be replaced. This type cannot fit in reverse, despite what my friend says, although details may vary on these lathes.

Worth checking the centre guide point lines up with the lathe centre line, but if out the correction must be with the V groove.

Stephen.

[richard_t]

Hello

 

Yes that's the type, and it can only be fitted one way around, as my lathe, WM280, has a double vee bed, with the vee on the left and the flat on the right in both cases. It looks like the travelling steady is out as well, will post another photograph later (after mowing the lawn.) I'll see what Warco say tomorrow, oh humm...

 

Richard

[bertiedog]

The Warco is based on the C6 Sieg, usually very accurately made machines. Most Chinese made lathes are accurate, their best feature, if a little cruder in appearance and unimportant surfaces finish. They are well set up, within reason, and all issues ever raised are completely curable.(see the massive net support, blogs, and even clubs for owners).

 

The C6 and variants are much larger than the Mini lathes, and the bed is double pristmatic, so if the centre is grossly out, then it must be the machining of the base V ways.

 

It's odd the travelling rest being out as well, that indicates checks made that the whole headstock is bolted down correctly to the bed, a very unlikely fault indeed, but never dismiss anything.

 

As mentioned the whole thing can be used as is, the points of the steady do not have to be in line, just touch the work.

 

I assume Mr Warren still runs Warco, he, and the company, have always been very helpful with my own lathe, the W1324 which came from Taiwan, rather than mainland China.

 

Stephen.

[relaxinghobby]

Hi

 

Occasional I read this tread with a sense of awe, envy and frustration.

 

I have not used a lathe since my school days and then only briefly.

To own one or have access to the use of such a versatile tool would improve any ones modeling and bring it one step closer to proper engineering.

 

Does anyone have any success with using a handdrill or powerdrill as a crude lathe or is this a myth, it does not work for me.

 

And then there is the next step up, I think I saw it on the 2mm fine-scale web site, an article on how to make a wooden cradle for a

hobby drill, to hold it horizontally and a traveling tool/bit holder made from nuts, bolts and some studding and so make a basic hobby lathe.

 

Even with the influx of cheap builder's power tools from the Far East, miniature hobby lathes are very expensive i.e. compared to say a hefty

pillar drill in Wicks' builders and D.I.Y. supplies shop costing a mere £50, which is only about about 20 beer tokens these days.

 

The 2mm D.I.Y. wooden lathe seems an attractive proposition, but it requires the ability to make square cuts to bits of wood, an other ability I lack, I

should stop moaning and have a go at making one, if it does not work only you and the dustman need know about it.

 

RH

[richard_t]

Hello

 

I must have been in a hurry yesterday when checking the travelling steady, as another test after mowing the lawn shows that it's not that bad at all:

 

 

There is a little side to side play on the bolts to the saddle and I had them right over to the right when I took this shot. It looks a little high, but I'd already checked there wasn't any swarf between the bottom of the steady and the top of the saddle to get in the way. I've not actually tested it, but my gut feel is that it would be OK like this. Perhaps I'll have time later to check, but any opinions either way would be good before I call Warco.

 

The biggest problem with the fixed steady is that it's useless for smaller work, around 1/4" or less, as the work just pops out top-right, don't ask how I know

 

Thanks

[bertiedog]

On the sizes that a steady will work with, the jaw tips may have to be machined of filed to suit small work, or auxiliary tips bolted on the existing tips, this is the best plan as they can then be adjusted to exactly the centre line of the lathe.

 

Using say 1/4 brass , cut three plates of about 3/4 by 1 inch(smaller if the mini version, size to suit the machine, and the drill the arms of the steady about 6 to 8 mm from the existing tip, through with a tapping drill for 6mm or 0BA or 1/4 whitworth.

 

Tap the hole, and find Allan cap bolts to fit, and drill the blank tips with a clearance hole. The new end will bolt on, beast with a washer under the screw head t spread the load.

The end can be shaped for the job, left flat ended, or pointed with a minute flat , for smaller work

 

Also a single plate could be made to drill to a particular size to allow bolt tuning etc, where the stock is feed through a fixed hole before the tool reduces it to size, commonly used the make bolt blanks.