Brick building at Battledown Flyover

[Doolish]

I am building a OO  gauge layout based on Battledown Flyover. Have now got all the trackwork down and am looking to building the flyover and the adjoining area.

 

I have found a photograph that shows a brick building built into the embankment. Other photos I have show that this was demolished some time ago but it looks as though the 'cutout' area of the embankment is still there. It would appear, from other photographs, that it was a two story building. I cannot find anything that indicates what the purpose of this building was. A suggestion that it was a Plate Layers store seems to fit but I would be interested to hear exactly what it was. Even better would be a photograph showing the front of it!

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[keefer]

Is shown on 1909 OS 25-inch map

 

[Wickham Green too]

5 hours ago, Doolish said:

....  A suggestion that it was a Plate Layers store seems to fit ....

But - whatever it is - why go to the expense and complication of building it into the embankment when there's no shortage of flat land available ?

[Nearholmer]

To me it says “pump house” or “wellhead”, but I can’t see anything on the pre-flyover OS map that would suggest that there might have been such a thing before the flyover was built. Maybe a spring that had to be dealt with to avoid it washing away the bank?

 

All surmise.

[bécasse]

It didn't exist before Worting Flyover was built, so it is probably a compressor house for the electro-pneumatic signalling installed in the early 1900s. I have (very) vague recollections of a similar building being located near Salisbury East signal box when I visited it in the early 1960s.

[Michael Hodgson]

On 09/06/2022 at 09:59, Doolish said:

I am building a OO  gauge layout based on Battledown Flyover. Have now got all the trackwork down and am looking to building the flyover and the adjoining area.

 

I have found a photograph that shows a brick building built into the embankment. Other photos I have show that this was demolished some time ago but it looks as though the 'cutout' area of the embankment is still there. It would appear, from other photographs, that it was a two story building. I cannot find anything that indicates what the purpose of this building was. A suggestion that it was a Plate Layers store seems to fit but I would be interested to hear exactly what it was. Even better would be a photograph showing the front of it!

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

That bloke in the foreground by the wing wall seems to have his hand by his fly ... is he relieving himself?🤨

[Wickham Green too]

13 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

... Maybe a spring that had to be dealt with to avoid it washing away the bank?...

Probably unlikely on chalk ! ................ though the proximity to Well's Copse might suggest otherwise ?

[Doolish]

OK have a new theory given to me by someone whos knowledge I highly respect.

He believes that it is part of the original signal box that controlled the junction when it was flat ie no flyover. I have seen a photograph of a signal box that was installed directly next to the flyover when the flyover was built.

It would seem logical that they would have to build round the original box so it could maintain the junction until the flyover was finished.

To prove this I suppose I need an OS map at the time it was a flat junction ie pre 1897 but don't know if these are available or how you view them.

[Nearholmer]

They are available, and I looked yesterday, 

 

Nuffink!

[Wickham Green too]

The 40' plan should explain what this was ........ but does it still exist ? ( I don't think it's in the S.R.G Library )

[bécasse]

15 hours ago, Doolish said:

 

To prove this I suppose I need an OS map at the time it was a flat junction ie pre 1897 but don't know if these are available or how you view them.

I have already looked at the appropriate 25" OS map and posted above that the building did not exist prior to the building of the flyover.

[Doolish]

3 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

The 40' plan should explain what this was ........ but does it still exist ? ( I don't think it's in the S.R.G Library )

Thanks but exactly what is the 40' plan?

[Wickham Green too]

Ground plans of most - if not all - stations and other features were drawn by B.R. ( and presumably all predecessors ) at a scale of 40 foot to an inch.

[keefer]

On 10/06/2022 at 21:08, Doolish said:

To prove this I suppose I need an OS map at the time it was a flat junction ie pre 1897 but don't know if these are available or how you view them

Click for 1894 OS 25-inch map

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by keefer

[Nearholmer]

There is a symbol on there that I overlooked when I checked it the other day.

 

 

Anyone know what it means? A trig point?

[Adam88]

11 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

A trig point?

 

Yes.  IIRC there were primary, secondary and tertiary with slightly different symbology for each.  The OS resurveyed the country in the mid-20C partly because the locations of quite a few of the originals had been lost.  This seems an unusual place for a trig point but perhaps the location pre-dates the railway.

[keefer]

The key on the old OS map sheet only says 'Trigonometrical Station'.

Nothing nearby on the current OS 1:25000 (or even 1:50000) Map:

 

Current OS map at Streetmap

Edited June 12, 2022 by keefer

[RFS]

Here's a clearer picture of it from Flickr photographer Colin Garratt- 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Looks even more like a pump house or well head to me than it did before.

 

im probably just biased!

[Nick C]

Looks like the base of an LSWR Type 4 box to me - this diagram: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/srm/T1023.htm suggests one in that position, so maybe it was later moved into the 'v' of the junction?

[keefer]

So it was originally a signalbox but the 'below floor' part of the structure was retained (with added roof) for re-use as Bécasse suggested previously, once the new signalbox was built 'inside' the junction.

[Doolish]

On 12/06/2022 at 21:49, RFS said:

Here's a clearer picture of it from Flickr photographer Colin Garratt- 

 

 

Fantastic photo - many thanks. Still don't know what it is!

[Doolish]

Thanks everyone for all the information. Will try and find drawings for the signal box.

Again many thanks

[Doolish]

OK have now found the final evidence in a photo. Comes from the Irwell book Mainline to the West. In the first few pages it shows a 'new' box situated alongside the junction itself. One interesting point here is the additional down track.

Much later in the book is a chapter on the building of the flyover and in one of the photo's you can just make out a signal box. Interestingly the Southampton Up was still in place.

 

Only question left I suppose is why did they move the box - blind spot perhaps) but more importantly why was the old box not totally knocked down. Did the pneumatic signalling come down this far - if so perhaps it was easier to leave the pumping apparatus where it was but controlled from the new box.

 

Nor being familiar with old signal boxes is it possible to tell what type this is or where I may find drawings of one.

 

Again many thanks for all the suggestions and am glad we got there in the end.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Doolish

[Nearholmer]

They probably left the base because it was integral with a retaining wall, although it must also have contained something important, otherwise there would have no point putting a roof on it, it could have simply been taken down to slope level and the walls capped.