running industrial locos over BR? would they need anything to display .

[Clan Mcadder]

Hi guys ,

 

I've got  a smallish layout and id like to run my Hornby Ruston's on the factory sidings but this would mean they run on BR metals ,circa 1970s-80s

 

would they need to have anything on them to say they could run or was it all red tape and paperwork ? 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Clan Mcadder

[Mark Saunders]

Depends what yo call BR metals, some exchange sidings were BR and the locomotives were registered and carried a registration plate.

 

Oxwellmains Blue Circle swapped between up and down side as the East Coast Main Line was between and the crew were passed in BR rules.

 

Ashington to Lynemouth, the section from Ashington to Woodhorn was BR and as above but we’re running trains with brake vans.

[Clan Mcadder]

its a small branch terminus , so they don't cross a mainline but  the use the loop and the sidings are at either end of the station .

[doilum]

I'm sure this has been asked before. Many collieries had local agreements to use sections of BR lines. These would have been under the control of the local signal box. Wheldale used the first section of the stump of the Garforth branch to cross the river Aire to the tipping grounds on the other side. Exchanges of locomotives between local collieries and visits to the area workshops also used the main line network. There is a name for the permission required but I cannot remember it.

[Ruston]

British Transport Commission registration plates. RT Models do them. Second item down on this page.
https://www.rtmodels.co.uk/rt_models_038.htm

[The Johnster]

Some confusion in the remains of what was, they tell me, once a finely calibrated scientific instrument, i.e. Johnster's brain, about how this worked in practice.  I understand the situation as being 'yes, industrials permitted on BR metals with BTC Registration Plates, which I assume ensured that the locomotives adhered to BR standards of wheel profile and such, and conform to the loading gauge (the big Bagnalls at Tata Port Talbot don't).  But there is a difference between a BTC Registered loco running over BR metals in exchange or other sidings and movements that involve them working on to running lines, the latter being a fairly unusual situation that I cannot recall happening anywhere in 'my area', South Wales.

 

Running lines, by which I mean BR lines under the control of a signal box and operated under permissive or full block regulations, would certainly include the platform road and run around loop at Cwmdimbath, and it would be useful if I could run the NCB's loco out on to the platform road during the traffic exchange movements; I just don't know of anywhere this happened in real life.  It would involve the NCB loco being allowed to run up to the buffers in the platform road when exchanging loaded wagons.  The NCB crew would need to be conversant and passed out on BR rules and regulations.  I can't bring myself to do it; Rule 1 would provide authority but IMV Rule 1 must be used with a degree of circumspection.  With great freedom comes great responsibility. 

 

 

[Ruston]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The NCB crew would need to be conversant and passed out on BR rules and regulations. 

Would it not be more likely that BR would provide one of their men, who is obviously going to know the rules, regs and road, to be on the footplate as a pilot? Perhaps pick him up at the point where BR metals begin and then drop him off after they are back on their own metals.

[doilum]

This has got me thinking about Ledston station and the Allerton Bywater colliery in the days when the Garforth branch was complete and running. The passing loop in the station was also the colliery entrance and extended into the parallel line that ran under the A656 to the tipping grounds on the north bank of the river Aire. The access to the area workshops came directly off the BR running line. These manoeuvres would have been under the control of the signal box on the station platform.

Edited June 29, 2022 by doilum

[Neil]

This photo of Carron station should provide the precedent required for industrial locos to wander about a branch station, use the loop etc. More images of operations there on this page, about half way down.

[david65061]

The NCB trains on the Lambton system in county Durham worked about five miles along the british Railways  main line from Penshaw to Sunderland to access the staithes so the coal could be loaded into ships. This was allowed because of running rights.

[nigb55009]

Bickershaw Colliery, near Wigan used two GE diesel locos. I think they were built at Vulcan Foundry, about 1979. They were named Western King and Western and Western Queen. 

After the Rapid Loading Bunker came into use, around 1988, the locos were transferred to Littleton Colliery in Staffordshire. They were moved via BR metals and

under their own power. A Springs Branch Driver acted as route conductor as far as Crewe. The move happened during daylight hours, IIRC. I`m sure there would have been a lot

of restrictions regarding speed and which lines the two were allowed to operate. Of course in those days there wasn`t the same access to the internet and social media, so the

working seems to have gone unnoticed. I haven`t been able to find any photos on line of the locos on BR metals, although I have seen photos of Western King at work after it`s

at Littleton. I wonder what Network Rails reaction if someone were to propose such a working today?

 

[doilum]

17 hours ago, nigb55009 said:

Bickershaw Colliery, near Wigan used two GE diesel locos. I think they were built at Vulcan Foundry, about 1979. They were named Western King and Western and Western Queen. 

After the Rapid Loading Bunker came into use, around 1988, the locos were transferred to Littleton Colliery in Staffordshire. They were moved via BR metals and

under their own power. A Springs Branch Driver acted as route conductor as far as Crewe. The move happened during daylight hours, IIRC. I`m sure there would have been a lot

of restrictions regarding speed and which lines the two were allowed to operate. Of course in those days there wasn`t the same access to the internet and social media, so the

working seems to have gone unnoticed. I haven`t been able to find any photos on line of the locos on BR metals, although I have seen photos of Western King at work after it`s

at Littleton. I wonder what Network Rails reaction if someone were to propose such a working today?

 

An estimate for a six figure sum?

[nigb55009]

Only six?

[Artless Bodger]

Around the early 80s, Reeds diesel shunter was moved from west Mill to East Mill via New Hythe and Snodland stations, crossing from up to down at Snodland. I saw it as it arrived back at New Hythe before entering the Reeds siding. From what the OMED engineer told me it was inspected before by BR, driven by our driver with a BR driver or inspector on the footplate. It was fitted in between the half hourly Maidstone West to Strood shuttle. With a top speed of about 15mph it must have been a bit of a close run thing.