Z scale modelling

[Ian Morgan]

You might need to lay some thin card beneath the track (corn flake packets), or you will lose lots of ballast down the gaps in the formers (been there, done that).

 

[DenysW]

Once again (this is a life-style choice) I'm going to ignore the positive and focus on the places where I think you might get your fingers burnt.

 

- Have a look at the Noch layouts (search Noch Baden Baden, then look at all of them, including the extensions) to get ideas,  and stuff to criticise. Particularly look at complexity versus layout size to see if you are trying to squeeze so much in there will be no scenery. I have no confidence that one would survive the trip to Australia intact - this is just a trawl for ideas.

- I think you're omitting the electrickery from your thinking/planning. My pictures show the nifty Marklin intermittent-contact switch-block (for points, relays) with its red-green coding to operate the two solenoids. Although they do up to four accessories, I think your layout looks like you'll need two or more. Where do they go and how do you get (a) the wires to them and (b) the wires from and back to the controller? Summary: there needs to be a decent air-gap under the layout for of the stuff that's going there, as well as extra space on (at least) one edge

- I've put an 8945 relay (blue) in the photo. Needed for the colored-light signals and the level crossing. Has to be horizontal. I think I'm going to end up with 5, all needing to be hidden under the layout. I've decided to have all trains automatically stop at all stations, and then be manually re-started. Sounds simple, but it also needs the system to know when the departing train has left the station the reset the signal to stop (and cut the power from that block)

- Finally for the pictures, I've put a 72090 junction strip next to them. The second photo of the underside of a Noch layout shows that you need several/many of these even if you are willing to put up with rats-nest wiring (I am). At least one per roundy-roundy. It is another widget that needs 15-25 mm of air-gap under the base of the layout. I expect to need some extra strips for the red DC wires, but not as many as for the yellow AC. The brown DC and the blue AC may not need any.

- Are you going to use Marklin decouplers to disconnect your locos from the carriages? If so, add 55 mm of straight track, and yet more AC wiring and switching.

-  The Marklin turntable requires 50 mm vertical space under its installation level,  plus an accurate 145 mm hole. It does come with TWO Marklin controllers, one specific to moving the turntable around in a controlled manner, the other for the track on the 'far' side of the turntable from the main layout.

- The semaphore signals require 16V AC and 65 mm under the layout, but include the relay to control the DC power to control block of track.

 

[47606odin]

5 hours ago, DenysW said:

Once again (this is a life-style choice) I'm going to ignore the positive and focus on the places where I think you might get your fingers burnt.

 

- Have a look at the Noch layouts (search Noch Baden Baden, then look at all of them, including the extensions) to get ideas,  and stuff to criticise. Particularly look at complexity versus layout size to see if you are trying to squeeze so much in there will be no scenery. I have no confidence that one would survive the trip to Australia intact - this is just a trawl for ideas.

- I think you're omitting the electrickery from your thinking/planning. My pictures show the nifty Marklin intermittent-contact switch-block (for points, relays) with its red-green coding to operate the two solenoids. Although they do up to four accessories, I think your layout looks like you'll need two or more. Where do they go and how do you get (a) the wires to them and (b) the wires from and back to the controller? Summary: there needs to be a decent air-gap under the layout for of the stuff that's going there, as well as extra space on (at least) one edge

- I've put an 8945 relay (blue) in the photo. Needed for the colored-light signals and the level crossing. Has to be horizontal. I think I'm going to end up with 5, all needing to be hidden under the layout. I've decided to have all trains automatically stop at all stations, and then be manually re-started. Sounds simple, but it also needs the system to know when the departing train has left the station the reset the signal to stop (and cut the power from that block)

- Finally for the pictures, I've put a 72090 junction strip next to them. The second photo of the underside of a Noch layout shows that you need several/many of these even if you are willing to put up with rats-nest wiring (I am). At least one per roundy-roundy. It is another widget that needs 15-25 mm of air-gap under the base of the layout. I expect to need some extra strips for the red DC wires, but not as many as for the yellow AC. The brown DC and the blue AC may not need any.

- Are you going to use Marklin decouplers to disconnect your locos from the carriages? If so, add 55 mm of straight track, and yet more AC wiring and switching.

-  The Marklin turntable requires 50 mm vertical space under its installation level,  plus an accurate 145 mm hole. It does come with TWO Marklin controllers, one specific to moving the turntable around in a controlled manner, the other for the track on the 'far' side of the turntable from the main layout.

- The semaphore signals require 16V AC and 65 mm under the layout, but include the relay to control the DC power to control block of track.

 

Thanks for the info 

 

I have built several layouts in the past, both analogue and DCC. I’m also an electrical mechanical fitter,so that side of things doesn’t phase me. I won’t be using the Marklin controller, and I’m not sure I’ll be using the points either, this is just planning.

 

any signals in this scale will just be lit in a proceed aspect and will be just there for aesthetics. I don’t understand German signals well enough for prototypical operation 

 

this is purely a thing to run trains on

[Brian Harrap]

On 23/06/2022 at 10:36, Ian Morgan said:

@Brian Harrap brought Minizob (Zobhafen?) to the Basingstoke show in 2003:

 

By the way, in passing, did you know that the track and stock on this layout is all to Proto Z standards. The equivalent of P4 and the like. 0.2mm flangeways - even a bit of narrow gauge. Thanks for posting Ian.

Brian

Edited July 7, 2022 by Brian Harrap

[Re6/6]

14 hours ago, Brian Harrap said:

By the way, in passing, did you know that the track and stock on this layout is all to Proto Z standards. The equivalent of P4 and the like. 0.2mm flangeways - even a bit of narrow gauge. Thanks for posting Ian.

Brian

 

And what's more, it's great fun to play with drive!

[47606odin]

Well, I’ve got the basics, and another loco. And the trains go up the 3% grade

 

[justin1985]

Only just discovered this thread - I'm very much bought in to Z myself these days!

 

@DenysW if you're buying into the Märklin miniClub system as the holistic system, in terms of electronics (and some of the automation can be very impressive - especially when you remember most of it is 1970s tech!) - then you'd probably find answers to most questions in the Märklin Track Plan Book (0296) which is now available as a free PDF: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.maerklin.de/fileadmin/media/produkte/SpurZ/0296_Gleisanlagen-Buch_Spur_Z_komplett.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjJ6Pe49Oz4AhVzm1wKHVyuC4UQFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3-EXjjd2NrMrR1OIU1d9_w

 

As well as some fun track plans, there are full (tri-lingual) explanations of all of the electrical accessories, and how they're intended to be combined. Much more of a manual to the entire system than just a track plan book!

 

That said, in this day and age, I'd heartily recommend using Rokuhan track and accessories (with Märklin rolling stock). The Rokuhan track is ready ballasted, like KATO Unitrack in N or HO, has integrated point motors nearly hidden in the track bases, AND is much cheaper than new stock Märklin track! You can get Rokuhan turnouts from PlazaJapan for less than £15 each (plus import taxes, alas), or buy a bit more expensively from importers (Noch in the EU or Gaugemaster in the UK). Seems like no contest now, really! 

 

Rokuhan also make nice controllers and accessory switches etc, but not anything like the whole classic 1970s Märklin system. But then there's no reason to feel constrained to a "system". Viessmann make nice signals you can control independently, and frankly the Rokuhan cosmetic plastic catenary masts look better than the functional Märklin metal system - in 1:220 the actual wires really would be next to invisible - better represented with EZ-line, if anything at all.

 

Don't be afraid to mix and match, and adapt! 

 

 

 

 

 

[DenysW]

Yes @justin1985, I'd found that pdf, and it was quite helpful - although, as noted above, some of the sketches did not note that the little coloured blocks shown were resistors(?) included in the product. Most helpful probably was the explanation of how to wire up 'distant' signals, which convinced me that it might to possible but it would be wallet-emptying for the number of relays required. It also helped me avoid some unforced errors - I'm thinking of the instructions on close-coupled points that are on different controllers.

 

It's just sad that Marklin have not re-engineered some of the clunky-looking bits of their track system into the 2020s, and that they didn't start with all the accessories at 16V AC instead of 10V.

[47606odin]

New (to me) locos. They run well
 

[47606odin]

Well, I have started to assemble the Faller station kit, but the colours are a bit boring to say the least. I will be painting the entire structure, but can anybody suggest a decent colour for a grand regional station in mountainous terrain for my holiday visitors to enjoy before starting their skiing holiday? 
most station roofs i can find on Flickr appear to be silver or grey

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

1 hour ago, 47606odin said:

Well, I have started to assemble the Faller station kit, but the colours are a bit boring to say the least. I will be painting the entire structure, but can anybody suggest a decent colour for a grand regional station in mountainous terrain for my holiday visitors to enjoy before starting their skiing holiday? 
most station roofs i can find on Flickr appear to be silver or grey

 

A nice looking kit - not one I’ve seen before.  As with all things Z-Scale, could I ask what size it is?
 

In my experience - albeit in larger scales (I’m currently modelling in 1:120 TT) it’s been worth painting the grey plastic components, as even when I paint them the same grey colour they seem to look better.  I note you plan to paint the entire structure, so while it might sound boring, a range of greys may work quite well?  Just a thought, Keith.

[47606odin]

1 hour ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

A nice looking kit - not one I’ve seen before.  As with all things Z-Scale, could I ask what size it is?
 

In my experience - albeit in larger scales (I’m currently modelling in 1:120 TT) it’s been worth painting the grey plastic components, as even when I paint them the same grey colour they seem to look better.  I note you plan to paint the entire structure, so while it might sound boring, a range of greys may work quite well?  Just a thought, Keith.

the train shed section is 167mm long and covers 2 tracks

[47606odin]

This is what I’m looking at. Mainline station by the waters edge with grand roof to protect skiers in the winter months with the museum running above

 

 

 

 

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Inspired by this thread, I’ve done more research into Z.  Is it something to pursue alongside my other interests (H0e / HOn30 and TT:120)?  I’ve not been able to see Z in person, but there are some good videos online.  I have two questions, which the collective wisdom here may be able to help with if that’s OK:

 

1.  Something I like from a model is ‘presence.’  It’s subjective, but as I’ve moved down the scales to save space I’ve been particularly impressed with H0m and Continental TT.  Trains have ‘presence’ in a way that N-Scale doesn’t seem to for me.  Why am I looking at Z?  I also want to be able to run longer trains in a setting that can breathe despite my space constraint.  Are there any hints, tips or traps to be aware of (for example, voltage drop has been mentioned).  Can I get a sense of ‘layout presence’ from a small train in a ‘big’ setting?

 

2.  Close-up video can disguise the physical size of Z, but I think I’m finding the trains seem to run quite fast.  I’ve often seen trains on layouts in museums running fast, presumably to avoid stalling, so is that a reason?  Is there a mechanical limitation, or is the standard Marklin controller perhaps more suited for ‘train set’ speeds?  I have seen slow running Z, so what should I aim for?  If my calculations are correct, this is what I think - I’ve used European scales for consistency with Marklin Z Scale:

 

In Z-scale 1:220 a mile is 24’ so an express train running at 60mph should take a minute to cover 24’.  Is that realistic?  Peco Flextrack for Z comes in 2’ lengths, so each 24” piece should take 5 seconds.  That actually sounds slow (I haven’t scaled time).

 

If I apply the same logic as the scales get bigger, in N at 1:160 the mile is 33’ so the train should cover the same 24’ in about 44 seconds, it needs to run around a third faster.  I don’t have any N-Scale to test this.

 

In TT at 1:120 the mile is now 44’ and the train needs to cover 24’ in 33 seconds if it is to maintain pace, nearly twice as fast as Z.  I haven’t built my TT layout yet, but I’ll be able to test this in due course.

 

In HO at 1:87 a mile is 60.7’ so the same train only has 24 seconds to cover the first 24’ (it is running at almost 1 foot per second, so a 2’ piece of track takes just 2 seconds, two and a half times faster than Z).  I run Narrow Gauge trains, so 30mph might be more reasonable than 60mph - I do run trains at about that speed.

 

Is that how to run Z-Scale trains?  Am I on the right lines when looking at Z or am I missing something?  Just wondered.  Thanks, Keith.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke
(Clarification)

[DenysW]

Opinions, as requested. And recognise that I'm coming at this to have a layout that interests grandchildren and SWMBO as well as myself, and this is definitely NOT the same as protoype compliance or 'presence'. For example, I have an 0-4-0 crimson lake OO tank engine that does (scale) 200 mph. The 8-year-old loves it. It's old, Hornby, and seems indestructible, and so I don't care when he plays crashes-due-to-speed. I just don't get out the more precious Bavarian-outline HO when he wants to play trains.

 

Overall I feel that Z has the same potential for presence as bigger gauges but it still will need a big space in the house or shed. Look on the internet for videos of Noch's Baden Baden layout in N and, separately in Z. The N looks stupidly small - the carriages are all at big angles to each other on the curves. The Z appreciably less so.  But it's still telling you that 2.4 m (with the left extension) by 1.0 m is only just about big enough to get a station, a turntable, and some nice roundy-roundies with the workings concealed by tunnels. To get presence I think you're going to have to go (at least) 5 m to get long straight sections, as some of the pictures posted to this thread. The presence challenge then is to make the surrounding landscape and scenery models accurately in the tiny scale, and, probably, not get your track from Marklin - too clunky and with too much of the electrickery on full public display.

 

I found my Marklin 0-6-0 tank engine would do about the fast end of prototype speed (45 mph scale) with the controller at about 75%. It's my only new loco, and I haven't bothered to measure the other two. I've not properly run it in yet, and it often requires the hand-of-god technique to get it to start light-engine. I'm not convinced that prototype speed will keep the attention of children - especially shunting and at stations.

 

Odin's layout looks like fun, but it also looks like it would take a lot of work concealing the ramps to give it 'presence'.

 

 

[justin1985]

A few thoughts ...

 

16 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

1.  Something I like from a model is ‘presence.’  It’s subjective, but as I’ve moved down the scales to save space I’ve been particularly impressed with H0m and Continental TT.  Trains have ‘presence’ in a way that N-Scale doesn’t seem to for me.  Why am I looking at Z?  I also want to be able to run longer trains in a setting that can breathe despite my space constraint.  Are there any hints, tips or traps to be aware of (for example, voltage drop has been mentioned).  Can I get a sense of ‘layout presence’ from a small train in a ‘big’ setting?

 

 

I think this is definitely possible - but perhaps not often seen - because the temptation is too often (understandably) to use the small scale to make a small layout. But if you keep the layout size you had in mind for a larger scale, and model a more generous landscape in Z, you can definitely get presence. @Kiwibonds 's Wassen in Z project really seems to achieve this for me - http://zwassen.blogspot.com/2020/03/model-modeling.html 

 

Also, very different approach, but I enjoy the "presence" that YouTuber "smoulderz" gives to Z models (with fancy camera work and editing).

 

 

16 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

2.  Close-up video can disguise the physical size of Z, but I think I’m finding the trains seem to run quite fast.  I’ve often seen trains on layouts in museums running fast, presumably to avoid stalling, so is that a reason?  Is there a mechanical limitation, or is the standard Marklin controller perhaps more suited for ‘train set’ speeds?  I have seen slow running Z, so what should I aim for?  If my calculations are correct, this is what I think - I’ve used European scales for consistency with Marklin Z Scale:

 

 

The original Märklin Z locos with 3 pole motors usually seemed to have pretty awful slow speed running, and I suspect the Märklin controllers were designed around this. Therefore you do tend to see layouts operating with fast running, which doesn't really best show off the scale. Especially so when modellers are using the signal based automation using the original Märklin parts - which can be very stop-zoom - if you want to be sure it will start again successfully when the signal changes.

 

There is no need to stick to the official Märklin controllers - you can get great control with battery controllers from Medvend in Hungary (also sold by Z-Track in the US, and the 2mm Scale Association) and also from just pairing a generic eBay voltage regulator/"motor controller" with a 9v power supply.

 

If you stick to more recent Märklin models, with 5 pole or coreless motors, you'll get MUCH better slow running. As a rule of thumb, if a Märklin model has factory blackened wheels, it will have a 5-pole (or coreless) motor. So just avoid the original ones with shiny wheels - unless you're willing to fit them with 5 pole or coreless upgrade kits (not always easy). Sometimes you do get lucky with a good low speed runner with a 3 pole motor though ...

 

With the latest generation coreless motor models, you can expect absolutely exemplary crawling slow running, pretty well as good as in any other scale. The V100 diesels, as far as I know, always had coreless motors, and I'm very happy with the running of mine:

 

 

Worth saying that Rokuhan's Japanese (and one German) locos have beautifully smooth and slow running, as do basically all of the American prototype models from Microtrains and American Z Line. Only the Microtrains F7 (their earliest model) sounds like it has a reputation as a dud - their other older models like the GP-9 and GP-40 tended to have genuine Maxon coreless motors, and I think all AZL locos have amazing mechanisms. Some nice showcasing of them here:

 

 

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Thank you for these really helpful responses - much appreciated.  A couple of thoughts as follow-up if that’s OK:

 

5 hours ago, DenysW said:

Opinions, as requested. And recognise that I'm coming at this to have a layout that interests grandchildren and SWMBO as well as myself, and this is definitely NOT the same as protoype compliance or 'presence'. For example, I have an 0-4-0 crimson lake OO tank engine that does (scale) 200 mph. The 8-year-old loves it. It's old, Hornby, and seems indestructible, and so I don't care when he plays crashes-due-to-speed. I just don't get out the more precious Bavarian-outline HO when he wants to play trains.

 

Overall I feel that Z has the same potential for presence as bigger gauges but it still will need a big space in the house or shed. Look on the internet for videos of Noch's Baden Baden layout in N and, separately in Z. The N looks stupidly small - the carriages are all at big angles to each other on the curves. The Z appreciably less so.  But it's still telling you that 2.4 m (with the left extension) by 1.0 m is only just about big enough to get a station, a turntable, and some nice roundy-roundies with the workings concealed by tunnels. To get presence I think you're going to have to go (at least) 5 m to get long straight sections, as some of the pictures posted to this thread. The presence challenge then is to make the surrounding landscape and scenery models accurately in the tiny scale, and, probably, not get your track from Marklin - too clunky and with too much of the electrickery on full public display.

 

I found my Marklin 0-6-0 tank engine would do about the fast end of prototype speed (45 mph scale) with the controller at about 75%. It's my only new loco, and I haven't bothered to measure the other two. I've not properly run it in yet, and it often requires the hand-of-god technique to get it to start light-engine. I'm not convinced that prototype speed will keep the attention of children - especially shunting and at stations.

 

Odin's layout looks like fun, but it also looks like it would take a lot of work concealing the ramps to give it 'presence'.

 

 

 

Comparing online videos of Noch’s pre-formed Baden-Baden layout in N and Z was really useful, thank you:  it gave me a very effective comparison between two scales on an identical layout base.  

 

My verdict: an easy win for Z-Scale.  

 

My reasons: as @DenysW notes above, the trains look better on curves (some of the curves look much better too - and in the same space).  Also, the smaller trains do a better job of fitting ‘into’ the scene, not dominating it.  But at the same time, they’re not so small as to disappear.  A very informative exercise.

 

My key thought: something I’ve also found in larger scales - even on a simple layout transition curves can make a difference.  I have them on my simple H0e test circuit layout and they do make watching trains much more enjoyable.

 

2 hours ago, justin1985 said:

A few thoughts ...

 

 

I think this is definitely possible - but perhaps not often seen - because the temptation is too often (understandably) to use the small scale to make a small layout. But if you keep the layout size you had in mind for a larger scale, and model a more generous landscape in Z, you can definitely get presence. @Kiwibonds 's Wassen in Z project really seems to achieve this for me - http://zwassen.blogspot.com/2020/03/model-modeling.html 

 

Also, very different approach, but I enjoy the "presence" that YouTuber "smoulderz" gives to Z models (with fancy camera work and editing).

 

 

 

The original Märklin Z locos with 3 pole motors usually seemed to have pretty awful slow speed running, and I suspect the Märklin controllers were designed around this. Therefore you do tend to see layouts operating with fast running, which doesn't really best show off the scale. Especially so when modellers are using the signal based automation using the original Märklin parts - which can be very stop-zoom - if you want to be sure it will start again successfully when the signal changes.

 

There is no need to stick to the official Märklin controllers - you can get great control with battery controllers from Medvend in Hungary (also sold by Z-Track in the US, and the 2mm Scale Association) and also from just pairing a generic eBay voltage regulator/"motor controller" with a 9v power supply.

 

If you stick to more recent Märklin models, with 5 pole or coreless motors, you'll get MUCH better slow running. As a rule of thumb, if a Märklin model has factory blackened wheels, it will have a 5-pole (or coreless) motor. So just avoid the original ones with shiny wheels - unless you're willing to fit them with 5 pole or coreless upgrade kits (not always easy). Sometimes you do get lucky with a good low speed runner with a 3 pole motor though ...

 

With the latest generation coreless motor models, you can expect absolutely exemplary crawling slow running, pretty well as good as in any other scale. The V100 diesels, as far as I know, always had coreless motors, and I'm very happy with the running of mine:

 

 

Worth saying that Rokuhan's Japanese (and one German) locos have beautifully smooth and slow running, as do basically all of the American prototype models from Microtrains and American Z Line. Only the Microtrains F7 (their earliest model) sounds like it has a reputation as a dud - their other older models like the GP-9 and GP-40 tended to have genuine Maxon coreless motors, and I think all AZL locos have amazing mechanisms. Some nice showcasing of them here:

 

 

 

 

Thank you - a very comprehensive response and some very useful links (Wassen is a fascinating place for train-watching).

 

It may be worth highlighting American Z products generally use Micro-Trains knuckle couplers (or equivalent), rather than the Marklin Z coupler (although Marklin’s US outline Z-scale products use their coupler too).  There is not a universal standard.

 

The point about ‘stop-zoom’ automatic or signal-controlled operation is very relevant: one of the Baden-Baden videos I found was being operated in precisely that manner by a highly competent youngster.  All the trains ran at a set speed - but the enjoyment came from being in control.  I’ve read somewhere about the difference between layouts operated by “Gods” (with central control and signals - which it suggests is more popular in Europe) or “Heroes” (where an Engineer drives a train - a typical approach to operating large American layouts).  Personally I’d rather be a train driver, so that determines my own operating aim / expectation.

 

My verdict: the case for Z-Scale is stronger than I thought.  If I see a second-hand building kit that’d be worth trying (I enjoy making buildings), and I’ve ordered one of the static Atlas models of a favourite train so I can see the size close-up.    Modelling in Z-Scale perhaps benefits from more understanding of the caveats and more patience to work through them than a mainstream scale might.  I’m not at all technical, so how I’d fare if a locomotive needed repairs, or if I had to sort out one with Hardened Oil Syndrome remains to be seen.  On the other hand, since selling my UK OO collection I’ve explored quite a portfolio of non-mainstream railway modelling interests, so I’d like to try Z when my budget (time and money) allows.  I’ll keep following, Keith.

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Allegheny1600]

1 hour ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 I’ll keep following,

So will I!

Sorry to add a “me too” post but Keith’s queries and the responses given, are of considerable interest to me also.

As I said before, if I got into Z scale, it would have to be American outline. A while back, a colleague on another forum, did an extensive spotting trip and I think it was somewhere in California - where you could see the rail lines swooping and sweeping around as they gained elevation climbing a mountain pass. There was a picture taken from the head of this pass and I felt the only way, one could realistically model this scene, was in Z!

One would certainly need a large space even then. I’ll try and find the picture I’m thinking of and ask permission to repost here, or at least, link to it.

By the way, my research has also indicated that US mechanisms do work really well!

[justin1985]

2 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 I’m not at all technical, so how I’d fare if a locomotive needed repairs, or if I had to sort out one with Hardened Oil Syndrome remains to be seen.  

 

 

The "Do it Yourself in Z Scale" website ( http://www.zscale.org/articles/revival.html ) has been absolutely invaluable to me when I first started collecting some Z, including several old "non-runner" locos. This is all about Märklin, and the troubleshooting guide is crystal clear. 

 

There are definitely some inherent problems with older production models - "hardened oil syndrome" seems to be Märklin's equivalent of old Graham Farish's split gears - BUT I would say that practically every Märklin Z loco I've had apart has actually been beautifully, and logically, engineered, which made stripping it down and fixing it actually quite a joy. With the exception of the 0-6-0 locos, the mechanisms really feel designed to be taken apart and reassembled (robust contact strips, screws or robust clips, ingenious arrangements of all metal gears etc.) - a total contrast to e.g. modern Dapol in N, where it often feels like assembly was intended to be a one way process (flimsy wires and connectors, glued in parts etc.). 

 

Hardened oil is undoubtedly common on older Märklin Z (i.e. anything with non-blackened wheels). So if I do buy anything of that era, especially if it looks like it hasn't been actively used for a while, I'll just routinely pop it apart and soak the metal gears in IPA to clean off all the old oil. The only gotcha is the fact the driven wheels of a steam loco are fully geared, so if you take them out, you'll need to make sure they're quartered when they go back in (so easier to leave the keeper plate on and leave them be, unless they're clearly gummed up). 

 

My limited experience of taking apart Microtrains Z locos has been a little more fiddly (tiny springs as electrical contacts etc.), but in general I think there is a bit less need to take them apart ...

[47606odin]

I agree with the quality of the mechanisms in the Marklin locos. My only issue with 2 old locos I have bought is 2 of them appear to get an open circuit armature winding. If it stops in the wrong place it won’t restart, but if it starts it runs lovely. Ironically, both locos there are no replacement motors anymore 

[47606odin]

Well, this arrived today. My first brand new Z scale. It worked out the most economical way of getting the BR89 loco

 

[Allegheny1600]

On 19/07/2022 at 19:04, Allegheny1600 said:

A while back, a colleague on another forum, did an extensive spotting trip and I think it was somewhere in California - where you could see the rail lines swooping and sweeping around as they gained elevation climbing a mountain pass.

Here are two of the pictures I was thinking about;

https://westernthunder.co.uk/attachments/img_5887-jpg.104443/
I believe this is “Sullivan’s Curve” on Cajon Pass, California in 2019

and

https://westernthunder.co.uk/attachments/bnsf-7731-jpg.102818/
I believe this is is much the same place from a different viewpoint, only 2018.

Used with permission from Mickoo, on WT - thanks again, Mick!

[DenysW]

Sullivan's Curve.

 

Looking at the pictures in northamericanrails.com I can see why you'd want to model this (it is indeed magnificent), but with the trains having 2-8 massive deisels dragging them and with maybe a mile of wagons behind them I think your ambition exceeds the possible on any scale. I believe there's also video of the remaining operational Big Boy on these tracks making the climb look effortless, pulling a modest 20 coaches.

 

As a detail - the photos do also show the US closer spacing of the sleepers, so No to Marklin for US outline. German seems to have been similar to UK, and built for 'only' 20-22 tonnes/axle.

[DenysW]

Marklin starter kits. Agreed these are the best way, having chosen Marklin, to expand your capabilities. For the price of a discounted locomotive you get a 'free' controller plus some 'free' track and a couple of 'free' wagons. The expansion packs are also a good deal, once you make you mind up whether you are going to automate the points (both options available, but no possibility of retrofitting point motors to manual points).

 

When I lived in the USA I learned that nothing is free, only 'included in the price'.

 

 

[DenysW]

More layout electrickery stuff, in the hopes that it'll be seen and improved upon.

 

Barely visible in the layout are two semaphore signals, requiring a 16V AC pulse to activate their built-in ON/OFF relay, which is used to switch DC power to one DC leg only of the track in one control block each. They will be operated by the left of the two switch boxes, with resets to Danger from Marklin detector tracks once the locomotive is out of the block. The other one is the first of 3 (probably) 10V AC boxes for roundy-roundy track-circuit 4, which also will do all the shunting, so will have lots of points. The relay (which I may yet hide under the layout) does the red/green light signals for the platforms for roundy-round 4, which has a choice of 2  - the active one will have a green light, but nothing will happen until the semaphore also shows safe.

 

This is my cunning plan for an intermediate stage between God and Hero control. In Hero mode you drive the train to suit yourself. However, all trains stop at all stations, so you need God mode lite with the semaphores to enable Hero mode as the train moves off. Reversing will be enabled by the traditional method of putting a diode across the block isolator track, which Marklin's isolation-track makes robust.

 

YouTube videos seem embarassed by this type of detail and try to avoid showing it. Two things I want to get across are the shelf to attach the switches to, and the open slot behind it to feed wires through - some from the lights are visible. This design also lifts the layout by enough for the 65 mm clearance below the layout for the semaphores not to be an issue. The light signals only need about 15 mm.