freightliner_bond_57007 Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 Evening all, I’ve been looking at some of my engineers train pictures from circa 2002-2004 in the North East. It looks like a light grey converted Salmon wagon was in frequent use as a “bale” wagon as I understood they were called. However, on checking some pictures it also appears that I captured a converted BDA / BEA wagon. Unfortunately this was on my first digital camera so the resolution is quite poor. Does anyone have details of the “bale” fleet please and can help identify these wagons? In particular I’m interested in knowing if I kept capturing the same light grey Salmon or there were multiple of these. Cheers in advance Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 (edited) No help on the Bale query, but some of the smaller Kirow cranes do still run with a Salmon as a runner. The larger ones have new build wagons with them. All universally known as "supports", as in Kirow plus support wagons. Jo Edited June 28, 2022 by Steadfast 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Davexoc Posted June 28, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 28, 2022 Just checked PB's site, and there is an older photo of a Salmon with a spreader bar here https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brsalmon8ft No reference to Bale, although it is a YMB as opposed to a YMA or YMP.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, Davexoc said: Just checked PB's site, and there is an older photo of a Salmon with a spreader bar here https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brsalmon8ft No reference to Bale, although it is a YMB as opposed to a YMA or YMP.... Is this it? https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brsalmon8ft/e28a0508c A YMP or this https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brsalmon8ft/e301a8342 A YMB A YMB is a YMA with a through vac pipe. Many B wagons became A wagons with no more than removing the end hose. Or this YMA https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brsalmon8ft/e25b4c6a3 It is a great deal easier for all of us if you link to the actual photo. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Davexoc Posted June 28, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, hmrspaul said: or this https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brsalmon8ft/e301a8342 A YMB A YMB is a YMA with a through vac pipe. Many B wagons became A wagons with no more than removing the end hose. This one, for some reason the link didn't show up properly at my end.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 28, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 28, 2022 Here's a later version YWA 996575 from 2010. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freightliner_bond_57007 Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 On 28/06/2022 at 23:35, newbryford said: Here's a later version YWA 996575 from 2010. Thanks. I did manage to capture a few pics of other Bales like this one at Corbridge on the Tyne Valley in Sept 2003 so I do know other wagons were used: The use of the BDA (to be confirmed) appeared unusual. Still not sure if that light grey wagon is the same one that I kept seeing or there were a number coloured similarly used for this purpose. Cheers Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 There are several former Long Welded carriers that are now used for carrying at spreader beams! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 45 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said: There are several former Long Welded carriers that are now used for carrying at spreader beams! Yep, the beam carriers that run with the tilting point carrier sets. Also runs with a bass normally, for carrying sundries for the pointwork. Jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freightliner_bond_57007 Posted July 2, 2022 Author Share Posted July 2, 2022 16 hours ago, Mark Saunders said: There are several former Long Welded carriers that are now used for carrying at spreader beams! Cheers Mark. Not seen that but not been out photting engineers trains for a long while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Those 'bales' are loose sleeper lifting beams which would usually be used with a TRM hence why they have two locations on them to which the TRM's lifting bales which were designed to lift panels of track by clamping themselves to the rail heads can be attached. The sleeper lifting beams are fitted with removable short chains with various fittings on them so sleepers with different rail clip housings can be lifted. There are multiple fixing points for the chains so the spacing and number of the chains and hence the sleepers hanging from them can be changed to suit the job being done. From 24 sleepers in 60'-0" for some rustic branch line (although 26 would be more likely} to 30 sleepers in 60'-0" for the WCML fasts. The sleepers would be delivered to site on salmon wagons in double spaced layers ie 48, 52, 56 or 60 sleepers to a layer depending on the spacing required on site, with every other sleeper being lifted at each pick. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freightliner_bond_57007 Posted July 3, 2022 Author Share Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) Thanks Trog. That helpfully clarifies the use of the term Bale wagons then. Looking at both the pics I’ve shared in this thread, and also Mick’s, there appears to be two different designs of lifting beam: a simple single metal beam from which the chains hang; and a more complex construction of I-beam. I’m guessing that the difference would be in relation to which TRMs this could be used with? Perhaps one is for a pair of YOB single jibs and the other for a YJB twin jib? Or were they interchangeable / another reason for the different types? Finally, and again this is supposition unless anyone can confirm / offer an alternative view but if there were different types and different combinations of chains that means there are a few lifting beams. It seem likely then that a beam would be stored and maintained somewhere and then lifted onto a wagon ahead of a planned track relay job rather than a number of wagons being tied up and unused with beams sitting on them awaiting their next use? This leads to the suggestion that the light grey Salmon in my opening post is the same wagon and part of a small number used specifically for carrying lifting beams? Interesting that Perch are now being used for carrying lifting beams. I wonder if the BDA (or derivative) picture was some kind of trial as an alternative to the ageing Salmon? Really interesting and thanks for all the comments so far. Cheers Alan Edited July 3, 2022 by freightliner_bond_57007 Removed quote 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 The area I worked on was busy so all the beams were used most week-ends so the beam would probably stay with its carrying wagon for quite a while. With the pair just travelling from job to job. The carrying wagons we used were just standard bolstered salmons. I suspect that the specially adapted grey wagon with the little end frames was just one of the H&S departments solutions looking for a problem. I don't remember us ever using two cranes in tandem, better things to do with them and if you do that you have to derate them by 50%, so twice the cost twice the staff to get a second rate TRM. There were however loose sleeper beams designed for use with cranes these were of the thinner type and about 30'-0" long. They carried the sleepers double spaced so on arrival at the installation point you unhooked every other sleeper, then moved up 30'-0" and unhooked the rest. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freightliner_bond_57007 Posted July 3, 2022 Author Share Posted July 3, 2022 Having re-found an old Wagon number Excel spreadsheet on my hard drive dated 04.11.2001 that used to be available on the web I think I might now have found the answer to the BDA question. Design code: BD006F is marked up as a beam carrier. 950197 is the only wagon listed with this design code Pool 7106 which is described as: Unassigned BBRP Ltd Various BalfourB unpowered vehicles D Medhurst However, further googling suggests other wagons to this design code: https://www.ltsv.com/rd/design_detail.php?id=DBWN-BD006F Can’t find a picture though. Cheers Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 First one I looked for 950412 - conventional BDA in 1985 and a very smartly painted Balfour Beatty rail lift beam in 2020 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/bdalever/ef41e1f8b and details I don't have any of the others on that list. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freightliner_bond_57007 Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 Hidden amongst a recent Mike Cubberley Flickr upload and almost missed were: 950294 Balfour Beatty 2006 And the aforementioned 950197 Balfour Beatty 2004 Noting there’s a lot of difference between these two conversions. Cheers Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freightliner_bond_57007 Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 Searching those numbers above is throwing up a few more pics. 950336 / 950412 from Ernie Puddick’s Flickr also Balfour Beatty in 2004 Cheers Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freightliner_bond_57007 Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 950496 Balfour Beatty 2004 950733 Balfour Beatty 2003 That’s pics of all of those listed as BD006F as shown here: https://www.ltsv.com/rd/design_detail.php?id=DBWN-BD006F Just to track down the non Balfour ones now as per the start of this thread. Cheers Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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