Schooner's (Mostly Maritime) Layouts

[The Johnster]

🎶 Whoa, I'm going to...🎵

 

Bloody marvelous!

Edited February 18 by The Johnster

[Schooner]

Juuuusssst in case I get up tomorrow thinking that it's a good idea buy a pretty little ship boat barque model in what looks to be 1:80 at the outside...

 

 

 

Thoughts and feeback, please!

 

 

 

 

As per with my little tabletop schemes, designed to turned around and viewed played from both sides to give a change of scene from time to time. 

 

 

Figure A bottom left is seen as the primary headstick spot*, as I've assumed the straight line to the top left corner is aesthetic only, to make life simple. However, if made functional, Fig B would be good for an alternative connection when the layout is rotated, giving quite a different set of shunting challenges to swear at  manage.

 

*Intentio 1' cassettes, which I know can take 5 of my assorted little old wagons/loco and three 'normal' RCH lads.

 

By way of inspiration, I was recently looking at some before during/after pics of No. 4 Dock at Falmouth, and probs had those in mind more than anything:

 

https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/EPW009875

 

https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/EPW009876

 

https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW023171

 

https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW023357

 

Uh oh... :)

Edited March 7 by Schooner
Update

[Mikkel]

Oooh, that is very nice. Some interesting views to be had from all sides.

 

I like "Shed, misc." which of course is quite different from "Old stores" 🙂

[Schooner]

17 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

"Old stores" 🙂

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1270141

 

Like Where's Wally, but with Victorian industrial architecture... :)

 

21 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

"Shed, misc."

An embarrassment of riches to choose from in those aerial shots!

[Mikkel]

Ah, very nice! 

 

Something elevated would look grand. This is Alexandra Docks at Newport.

 

 

[drduncan]

@Schooner What barque model?

D

[magmouse]

I like this very much - especially (as with your other schemes) the use of strong diagonals to create visual interest.
 

One thought - can you extend the Engineering Out building so you can fit a wagon into it? The more wagons can seem to arrive at purposeful destinations on the layout, the more satisfying shunting will be, I suspect. Even a ‘lean to’ extension or covered area would do it.

 

Nick.

[Annie]

5 hours ago, Schooner said:

Juuuusssst in case I get up tomorrow thinking that it's a good idea buy a pretty little ship boat barque model in what looks to be 1:80 at the outside...

Ooooo a shunting puzzle type nautical layout, - I like it.  This could lend itself very well to a Trainz Model Railway format layout.

 

3 hours ago, Schooner said:

4 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1270141

'Old stores', - I definitely approve of that.

[Schooner]

While investigating Sheds (misc.), just stumbled upon this:

 

Locomotive shed of William Doxford & Sons Ltd, Pallion, c1928.

 

Sunderland has a remarkable history of innovation in shipbuilding and marine engineering. From the development of turret ships in the 1890s and the production of Doxford opposed piston engines after the First World War through to the designs for Liberty ships in the 1940s and SD14s in the 1960s. Sunderland has much to be proud of.Tyne & Wear Archives cares for tens of thousands of photographs in its shipbuilding collections. Most of these focus on the ships – in particular their construction, launch and sea trials. This set looks to redress the balance and to celebrate the work of the men and women who have played such a vital part in the region’s history. The images show the human side of this great story, with many relating to the world famous shipbuilding and engineering firm William Doxford & Sons Ltd.

 

While I'm scattering layout inspiration about, who's to say the clay chutes aren't being fed from a railway wagon?

:)

Edited March 7 by Schooner

[St Enodoc]

13 minutes ago, Schooner said:

While investigating Sheds (misc.), just stumbled upon this:

 

Locomotive shed of William Doxford & Sons Ltd, Pallion, c1928.

 

Sunderland has a remarkable history of innovation in shipbuilding and marine engineering. From the development of turret ships in the 1890s and the production of Doxford opposed piston engines after the First World War through to the designs for Liberty ships in the 1940s and SD14s in the 1960s. Sunderland has much to be proud of.Tyne & Wear Archives cares for tens of thousands of photographs in its shipbuilding collections. Most of these focus on the ships – in particular their construction, launch and sea trials. This set looks to redress the balance and to celebrate the work of the men and women who have played such a vital part in the region’s history. The images show the human side of this great story, with many relating to the world famous shipbuilding and engineering firm William Doxford & Sons Ltd.

 

While I'm scattering layout inspiration about, who's to say the clay chutes aren't being fed from a railway wagon?

:)

That's a great shot of Charlestown, probably between the wars judging by the lorries.

 

There was never a rail connection to Charlestown in real life, but there could have been. If and when I build my exhibition layout of a small china-clay port, it will be inspired by Charlestown as we stayed there on holiday for a few summers in the mid-1960s.

[Pete Haitch]

This building at Charlestown is on my build list.

 

 

Photographed it in 2006 when I took my late Father-in-law to see some of the ports he had sailed from as a cadet in the 1940s (mostly tankers out of Falmouth). The amazing thing was that despite having limited communication skills following a stroke, on a visit to the Maritime Museum he was given a couple of lengths of rope and could still tie pretty much every knot he was asked to. I guess once a seaman, always a seaman.

[Pete Haitch]

After catching up with this thread, I read one about the issues around taking a layout to exhibit on the continent.  A business opportunity for the vessel owners on this forum perhaps. Now I know why @KNP has never included any revenuemen at Little Muddle. 

 

I look at the rigging in the picture and to me it looks sophisticated and fast for an age without computers, tri-radial stress load modelling, fluid dynamic modelling etc. etc. etc. It would be so awesome to have just a fraction of the innate knowledge that those shipwrights, sail-makers, riggers and etc. must have had.

[Schooner]

They should've offered a higher reward: she's still going strong!

 

 

I jest, of course: Boadicea CK213 was only launched in 1808...! See here for more, or Google of course :)

 

The Bank of England suggests that £500 in 1782 is about £70,000 nowadays, although another online calculator gives almost double that for the modern value. Seems an awful lot, and in fact I'm pretty sure that the poster is not entirely pukka, so perhaps we shouldn't read too much into it...but... :)

 

You're right that the sailplan shown (what we'd call a cutter today) would've been at the front end of tech in the late C18, but certainly not improbably so. I suspect it's an East coast boat, as in the West Country greater use was made of what were essentially nippy fishing boats, which were typically lug rigged in the period. Shown below is Alert a 'replica' built to the ethos of these boats c.1835:

 

The revenue service used luggers also, in the 1780s something like the replica Grayhound

 

but were better known for developing the cutter rig for their counter-smuggling patrol vessels, something like the French replica Renard

which were cutting-edge tech in their day!

 

However, there's a bit of a trap in looking at these and waxing lyrical about the wonders of traditional knowledge. You're right that powerful predictive tools were lacking, so everything depended on the learned practice of some very smart and skilled characters. However development was slow, piecemeal and undirected...there had already a been about 5,000 years of continuous activity in an incredibly taxing and high-risk domain, which helps! Did the Norsemen set out to use what we'd now call an Air Lubrication System (cutting edge stuff to increase the fuel efficiency of big cargo ships today)? No, but their designs drew air bubbles under the hull to drastically improve performance, and still work rather well:

 

If failures result in death of a swathe the community, or their entire fortune, you can see why conservative but consistent progress was desired!

 

 

 

 

 

So, I wrote the above earlier this afternoon, but thought better of posting it. However, I've just seen a brief bit of second-hand interview about these early cutters with a square topsail. The argument, which I find persuasive, is that although an archaic feature for normal working, a square topsail is an invaluable tool in close-quarters manoevering, including giving the ability to reverse, in an era before engines. Later cutters (like the famous Bristol Channel pilot boats) could do without it by being exceptionally fine and light by earlier standards and so were generally handier vessels, but it's a nice little reminder that there was nothing extraneous on these nature-harnessing man-machine interfaces. If it's there, it has a use. If it has a use, your life may well depend on knowing about it in depth.

 

Right, anyway...trains...

 

:)

[RobinofLoxley]

That kind of Ketch is still faster on a reach than most modern Bermuda rigs of the same hull length. I should know because I sailed one regularly up the Essex coast. 

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Schooner said:

I'm pretty sure that the poster is not entirely pukka

My inbuilt BS detector, finely tuned on LinkedIn, made me think the same.

[Schooner]

The space I had:

 

The house move is imminent, however, and so by way of daydreaming, a first go at:

 

The space I have:

 

...and an attempt to shift the balance away from the C&W works and loco facilities and more towards the little scenic run:

 

i won't bang on about what it's all meant to be for the umpteenth time - I'm sure you all recognise what's going on! This time, however, both hemispheres rely on Peco setrack curves of 1020mm radius (IIRC) which is probably fine for the intended services, but not ideal.

 

So, questions: the usual what-am-I-missings, what could be tidier etc...but I'd love to hear from those with more experience of 7mm about whether the whole '3 x train length' idea holds true for a scenic section. I've just about managed it above (max train length 1200mm, run from C&W to bridge in the top left corner 3600mm)...but not entirely sure it's worth it!

 

Wotcha reckon, you lovely learned lot?

[Chimer]

No experience of 7mm (since circa 1960 😀) but the cassette/hoists in the bottom left corner look well out of reach, whatever the scale - or is there a cunning plan?

[Annie]

I think the C&W works and loco facilities being together in the first trackplan is more logical, but I do take your point about wanting more clear space over on the rural side of things.

[Schooner]

23 hours ago, Chimer said:

or is there a cunning plan?

Nope! Just duckunder access to that cutout triangle...which is why I'd rather hoist than cassette, as at least that can be managed from the middle.

 

The currently plan has a single 7'* siding curving (with an acceptably wide radius) round behind the carriage shed and line of trees (and backscene) for this reason - any shuffling of stock/shunting can take place, hands off, on a storage level of 2 sidings, loop and TT large enough for a tender loco (which the on-scene TT is not).

 

*Ideally, to take a summer excursion/special/rule 1 of smallish tender loco and 5ish short bogie carriages.

 

19 hours ago, Annie said:

I think the C&W works and loco facilities being together in the first trackplan is more logical, but I do take your point about wanting more clear space over on the rural side of things.

Yes, I really liked that the 'railway company infrastructure' had a proper scene of its own in the former...and if the scenic run isn't long enough to be worth it then is definitely the way to go :)

 

...but if it is long enough then I think it would make the layout feel larger, I think. 

[Schooner]

Better, or no?

 

 

Station view:

 

'Works' view:

[Annie]

2 hours ago, Schooner said:

Better, or no?

Better, - definitely better.  nice and compact, but still functional.

[Schooner]

Just a little inspiration, to show the sort of 'maximum winkie' train the above layout could/should handle:

 

An outside-cylnder 2-4-2T and a rake of three bogie coaches? Eat your heart out GWR Pannier-and-B-Set BLTs! All readily available as kits and prints in 7mm :)

 

...obvs there's a version of this in my mind headed by a Beyer Peacock 0-6-0 or SS 2-4-0...or two...

Edited March 25 by Schooner
Found some locos :)

[Schooner]

10 hours ago, Schooner said:

Just a little inspiration, to show the sort of 'maximum winkie' train the above layout could/should handle:

 

Or, indeed, below:

 

Just a little tickle the Twig Line Teminus...which now looks suspiciously like a through station! The yard poinwork hs been rearranged to take wasted siding length from the quayside road and giving it to the shed road; the loop has been altered for max length and a cheeky little crossing put in...because it's a formation I like :)

 

Keys to the new place on Thurs, and there is zero chance I'll be getting into this layout build! But there is some immediately accessable space in the loft...perhaps a layout of a series of linked scenes between the frames...have we come full circle and returned to the MER?!

 

 

:)

[Schooner]

Dunno if I'm qualified to call @Tricky a genius...

...but he's ruddy good!

Peekaboo!

 

Now, I must remember to pack the house up before the move on Thurs...

 

...ooooor I could just quickly get a controller hooked up... :)

[magmouse]

1 hour ago, Schooner said:

he's ruddy good!

Well, indeed - but you probably helped with a clear and detailed brief. Being a “good client” is more important than people sometimes realise.

 

This looks really great - and an excellent example of minimum space 7mm scale, with lots of play potential.

 

1 hour ago, Schooner said:

I could just quickly get a controller hooked up

Resistance is futile…

 

Nick.