A decent, quality mini bench vice???

[billtee]

I do most of my modelling in 1/43.5 scale these days, but my bench vice in my garage workshop is far too large to hold tiny items firmly while I work on them.

I usually finish up holding the item while trying to cut it or file it, and when the item is as small as the superb Springside O gauge lamp castings (GWR or BR ones, specifically!), the outcome is not good at all.

I thought I would try a large machinery and tool store in Bury St Edmunds as they would have what I wanted, but their smallest vice was suitable for holding a full-size slide bar of a GWR King class locomotive, not something about 2mm x 5mm!

I tried all the tool stores in the area, and the best(!) I could find was a £22 Czech vice which had crooked jaws which were not even vertical to the sliding axis, with a ‘swivelling base’ which was so badly made that it almost needed to be dismantled for it to work. And the jaws, very roughly serrated to ‘grip’ the workpiece, would never hold tiny items like I am working on.

So I am asking you people where I can find a really good modeller’s vice, preferably with adjustable slides for the moving jaw, and if it has a swivelling base, this needs to slide smoothly and be absolutely rigid when in the required position.

I don’t mind paying a higher price for a REALLY good, smooth-acting, and rigid moving jaw of a vice with a jaw width of about 50-60mm, but anything larger would become awkward to clamp onto my study desk.

Here is a close-up photo just taken of my current workpiece - an O scale Springside GWR tail lamp in which I filed a slot to fit a flickering LED to make it illuminate like an oil lamp. The casting is very small and fragile (the handle is also cast!), and holding it in my fingers while filing the slot with needle files is not easy!

 

 

The LED will be glued into the slot with the tiny lens poking through the hole in the outer face of the lamp, and all of the faces which might ‘leak’ red light will be painted matt black before painting the whole lamp casting white.

I looked at the internet and found dozens of seemingly suitable vices with jaws that might hold steady workpieces of about 25mm thickness, but I am working with items at least one-tenth that size! None of the vices on show looked like proper QUALITY items - indeed most would be worse than a pair of pliers! And yes, I have used pliers sometimes, but not with any real success.

Thank you for any advice,

Bill

[47137]

A Record 'Imp' might suit. These were well-made and an ancient and secondhand one might be just right.

 

- Richard.

[Tim V]

I have one of these:

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/screw-down-1-45mm-jaw-watchmakers?code=V9692

or you could go for the Bergeon, a tad more expensive (£229).

 

[H2O]

Perhaps not quite what you describe but,  from the same website as above, how about a machine vice as they have the advantage of being able to move around as you work on a small item. I'm not sure if you can get one you could clamp into a bigger vice too.  It can also be used for its original purpose.

 

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/foredom-machine-vice

 

 

[Miss Prism]

£10

[melmerby]

9 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

£10

Got one of those.

Nice and small but crappy jaws that don't grip well.

 

My Record Imp must be 50 years old by now and apart from a corner which broke off when I was abusing it by trying to unscrew a nut held by plumber's mate it's fine. (The nut was on a bath waste plug and I used a crow bar to lever the vice 🙁- not recommended for the health of Imps!)

 

I've also got a couple of machine vices, one is cast steel and the other Zinc (Mazak) as well as a couple of these:

https://www.aldi.co.uk/workzone-table-vice/p/810662596681400

 

Horses for courses, each works best with certain work pieces.

 

How about parallel jaw pliers?

https://www.toolsntoolsuk.co.uk/shop/parallel-action-pliers-adjustable-screw-flat-nose-smooth-jaws-jewellery-crafts/

 

 

 

[micklner]

Lidl were doing some for £5 recently . Good quality, register on their webpage and you will get a weekly email . Look at the Middle of Lidl button. They repeat items so you maybe lucky also other tools as well.

[Crosland]

Eileens's have a range of holding tools. They include the crappy Modelcraft one (or a lookalike) but also some that look better.

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Got one of those.

Nice and small but crappy jaws that don't grip well.

 

Mine has nice jaws that do grip. But then I bought it in god knows when, and it was £2.50, and I think the machining has changed since then.

 

Caveat emptor, I think, when it comes to vices.

 

 

 

[melmerby]

45 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Mine has nice jaws that do grip. But then I bought it in god knows when, and it was £2.50, and I think the machining has changed since then.

 

Caveat emptor, I think, when it comes to vices.

 

 

 

The one I have has a lot of play so that if you grip something near the end of the jaw, the other end closes leaving effectively a point contact grip which is useless

 

The adjustable parallel pliers are excellent, as well as the jaws staying parallel and gripping over a large area, they can be screwed together to act as a vice and are easy to hold.

[melmerby]

Another possibility are miniature mole grips, I have a set of 3 different types of those as well

Edited July 13, 2022 by melmerby

[billtee]

Thank you, everyone!

I will have a look at the Record vice first, as it seems to have the best ‘record’ (sorry!).

Some of the vices sold as being useful for modellers are anything but! I have seen several where the jaws don’t even meet, either horizontally across the jaw face, or vertically between the jaw faces!

It is very dispiriting, and living in East Anglia which is NOT exactly an industrial area doesn’t help. I used to live in Harbury, not far from the centre of the Midlands, and with Birmingham being just 35 miles away, I had a fair choice of engineering and machinery suppliers, but now that part of Britain is over a 2.5-hour drive away, something I did not consider when I retired and moved to Suffolk.

I may try the Great Eastern Railway Models store up in Norwich, which might be able to supply a reasonable vice, though Eileen’s could possibly help. I know the vice sold by Hobbycraft - it is the same one as that sold by B&Q, and it is only good for holding down sheets of paper, absolutely useless as a ‘holding instrument’!

I have a machine vice which I used quite often when I had a Naerok milling machine, and a small two-axis vice which I use with my pillar drill, but both are for holding much larger workpieces which can be clamped very securely. Tiny 1/43 scale whitemetal castings are anything but sturdy - they would be crushed if trying to hold them with vices of these sizes.

I could, perhaps, consider jeweller’s vices which possibly would be much more suitable, though I have not actually seen one except in a museum!

Anyway, I’ll keep looking - someone must produce a decent vice suitable for modellers.

Thank you again, everyone, for your help in this matter.

Bill

[melmerby]

37 minutes ago, billtee said:

Thank you, everyone!

I will have a look at the Record vice first, as it seems to have the best ‘record’ (sorry!).

Some of the vices sold as being useful for modellers are anything but! I have seen several where the jaws don’t even meet, either horizontally across the jaw face, or vertically between the jaw faces!

It is very dispiriting, and living in East Anglia which is NOT exactly an industrial area doesn’t help. I used to live in Harbury, not far from the centre of the Midlands, and with Birmingham being just 35 miles away, I had a fair choice of engineering and machinery suppliers, but now that part of Britain is over a 2.5-hour drive away, something I did not consider when I retired and moved to Suffolk.

I may try the Great Eastern Railway Models store up in Norwich, which might be able to supply a reasonable vice, though Eileen’s could possibly help. I know the vice sold by Hobbycraft - it is the same one as that sold by B&Q, and it is only good for holding down sheets of paper, absolutely useless as a ‘holding instrument’!

I have a machine vice which I used quite often when I had a Naerok milling machine, and a small two-axis vice which I use with my pillar drill, but both are for holding much larger workpieces which can be clamped very securely. Tiny 1/43 scale whitemetal castings are anything but sturdy - they would be crushed if trying to hold them with vices of these sizes.

I could, perhaps, consider jeweller’s vices which possibly would be much more suitable, though I have not actually seen one except in a museum!

Anyway, I’ll keep looking - someone must produce a decent vice suitable for modellers.

Thank you again, everyone, for your help in this matter.

Bill

Look for the optional fibre jaws (drop in) they protect soft surfaces from the machine cut jaw faces.

 

I found this place that sells jewellery tools (Essex)

https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/vices-bench-vice-jaws

 

 

[KingEdwardII]

14 hours ago, melmerby said:

How about parallel jaw pliers?

I can thoroughly recommend these beauties from Maun:

 

https://www.maunindustries.com/pliers-tools/parallel-pliers/

 

They also do other items such as clamps.

 

In general, I think you need to look at stuff made for Jewellers, like the site that @melmerby picked out on the previous message. I've used Proops Brothers in the past:

 

https://www.proopsbrothers.com/workholding-27-c.asp

 

Yours, Mike.

[melmerby]

The parallel pliers I have are intended for jewellery, they're made by Prestige Tools Limited (They use the old Prestige cutlery script!)

Bit cheaper than the Maun ones but still reasonable quality.

 

We used to have Maun tools when I worked at GPO/PO/BT might still have some amongst my collection. Top quality maker.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

My experience with Maun I'm afraid is less than l had expected.

I bought a pair of el cheapo parallel smooth jaw pliers, and, perhaps unsurprisingly, found them to be less than accurate. A strip down, smoothing the Jaws on a sheet of emery cloth, cleaning and freeing the linkages and finding some better quality nuts and bolts improved things a tad, but, still only OK.

So, plan b was implemented, a pair of "proper" Maun pliers, or so I thought were purchased. Whilst these were an improvement on the first set they were nowhere near enough to be considered the dogs danglies as I'd expected, and were worse in some areas, such as a slight serration on the Jaws. A strip down in a similar fashion to the first pair ensued, but they still don't close with 100% accuracy, which is annoying as I need them to grip etchings securely whilst I file them, but due to the inaccuracy in both pairs this is not possible, my temporary bodge being to glue a couple of pieces of wood/plastic to the Jaws to allow filing to be done.

Caveat Emptor.

 

Mike.

[melmerby]

This is my pair of Prestige parallel jaw pliers, hanging on with the jaws part way on the edge of an etch which I am holding vertically, they are well tight.

The pliers weigh 200gm

 

If you look at the jaws from the side there is still a small gap along the rest of the length, so pretty well parallel.

 

Whether they will be anywhere near as good after plenty of use😄

 

[melmerby]

Something else for holding work is an engineering clamp where you can adjust the parallel jaws:

[DGO]

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

Something else for holding work is an engineering clamp where you can adjust the parallel jaws:

 

 

I've always called these toolmakers clamps, I even made  one 30 odd years ago doing a BTEC NC in Mech Eng, they are actually very effective, most of the time though you set the front screw to more or less the correct jaw width and use the rear screw to apply pressure to the jaw tips, I believe woodworkers have a similar but larger device, you can buy toolmakers clamps off amazon or flea bay, they come in a variety of sizes so if looking to hold something small don't buy the largest ones,  With access to a lathe, vice, hacksaw and a drill press plus some suitably sized taps and dies almost anyone could make one in a couple of hours or less, as I recall we finished them including oil bluing in less than two 2 hour lessons and that included delays because of having to share the marking out table and drill press, strangely everyone had their own lathe LOL

[Michael Hodgson]

On 13/07/2022 at 19:24, Miss Prism said:

 

Caveat emptor, I think, when it comes to vices.

 

And caveat vendor, it's called "living off immoral earnings" by the vice squad!

[204Antrim]

I fear that you have been misled, or missed the point. Also, greetings from Suffolk Coastal.

 

As I understand it, you want to grip small items while you work on them. So do we all from time to time.

 

The answer is not in a 'super' vice which is very stable but able to grip small and delicate items very firmly. It doesn't exist.

 

Start with the small and delicate item, and grip it with a medium - small clamp appropriate to its size.

 

Then put that clamp into a larger clamp or vice and carry on up the scale to bigger clamps or vices as appropriate.

 

Small and delicate things need smooth and not 'too' hard jaws to hold them, but such a clamp can be held in more robust jaws, and if need be that can be held in rougher jaws.........

 

Cooksongold will sell you 'Guillotine Clamps' from Knew Concepts in the US for upwards to £30. They are too small for most model railway needs; I have developed a bigger and better version that is easy to mount in a bigger clamp, and then in a bigger vice that strong and stable but won't damage the workpiece.

 

Start with the workpiece and find the best clamp. then find the best clamp to hold that clamp, then find the best clamp or vice to hold that. The first clamp needs to ne the best that you can get; the rest can be cheep and cheerful.

 

No rocket science needed.

[Paul_in_Ricky]

Seeing as this thread has been resurrected, I've looked back and there's one major omission; The Eclipse 180 instrument vice.
These are fantastic tools. Small and will fit on a table edge, but will hold small parts very securely in just about any orientation.

The only problem is that they're no longer made and rather collectable, so it's keeping a close watch on eBay and being prepared to pay some decent money, but you won't regret it, they're brilliant.

[Enterprisingwestern]

11 hours ago, Paul_in_Ricky said:

Seeing as this thread has been resurrected, I've looked back and there's one major omission; The Eclipse 180 instrument vice.
These are fantastic tools. Small and will fit on a table edge, but will hold small parts very securely in just about any orientation.

The only problem is that they're no longer made and rather collectable, so it's keeping a close watch on eBay and being prepared to pay some decent money, but you won't regret it, they're brilliant.

 

As a plan b, these seem decent quality;

 

https://www.hemingwaykits.com/HK2460

 

Mike.

[Paul_in_Ricky]

35 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

As a plan b, these seem decent quality;

 

https://www.hemingwaykits.com/HK2460

 

Mike.

Looks good, but it is a kit that needs a lot of work and expertise to finish, not a vice ready to use.