A.E.C. 'Monarch' Tanker Lorry (Modelcraft/Lineside Lorries)

[aloniuk]

Here is my recently-completed model, based on the 1947 paper/card kit.

 

Thanks to Roger F for sending the plan for comparison 😀

 

The full build log is here (with more photos):

https://www.kartonbau.de/forum/thema/44831-a-e-c-monarch-petrol-tanker-modelcraft-ltd-1-72-a-1947-kit/

 

[phil_sutters]

Curiously I was looking at the Coopercraft Monarch yesterday, but realized that it was too late a model for my period. These card kits do have a period charm. I have a Riko Lyons Tea Scammell artic. card kit, which I offered to someone, on RMweb, living in France. I am still waiting for him to give me details of how he wants it sent to him. If he fails to do that soon, I would be happy to part with it.

[aloniuk]

14 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

Curiously I was looking at the Coopercraft Monarch yesterday, but realized that it was too late a model for my period. These card kits do have a period charm. I have a Riko Lyons Tea Scammell artic. card kit, which I offered to someone, on RMweb, living in France. I am still waiting for him to give me details of how he wants it sent to him. If he fails to do that soon, I would be happy to part with it.

Thanks, Phil. I like the character of the old kits. I've made a couple of Micromodels locomotives as well - will post photos when I find out which section of the forum is best 

 

I've never heard of Riko kits - just looked them up..... Very interesting!! Yes, I'd be interested in the Scammell...... 😄👍🏻

[BernardTPM]

I think I might still have a Riko DMS kit somewhere. Card suited the 'cereal box' design of that particular bus!

[PhilJ W]

There are several models in the range including a Sentinel steam waggon. I have several stashed away somewhere together with some Modelcraft balsa/card building kits.

Riko also produced an RAF type Leyland and a Leyland TD1 bus. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by PhilJ W

[Steamport Southport]

I remember those still being available in the 1970s.

 

We definitely had the Chivers Jelly van that ISTR we got from saving vouchers from the packets of jelly.

 

This is the real van.

 

https://flickr.com/photos/homer----simpson/7203457978

 

 

Jason

[phil_sutters]

5 hours ago, aloniuk said:

I've never heard of Riko kits - just looked them up..... Very interesting!! Yes, I'd be interested in the Scammell...... 😄👍🏻

I'll see if I can identify who was interested in it and check what they want to do about it. If it isn't wanted now, I will PM you. I think he had a layout with some connection to a Lyons factory - West London??

[aloniuk]

3 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

I'll see if I can identify who was interested in it and check what they want to do about it. If it isn't wanted now, I will PM you. I think he had a layout with some connection to a Lyons factory - West London??

That's interesting..... I'll look for the RAF vehicle (my daughter is in the RAF) 👍🏻

[PhilJ W]

5 minutes ago, aloniuk said:

That's interesting..... I'll look for the RAF vehicle (my daughter is in the RAF) 👍🏻

The Chivers van is the 'RAF Leyland'. They got the name because most of them went to the RAF in WW1. After the war finished Leyland realising that the war surplus vehicles would affect their sales purchased as many of them as they could and refurbished them. At the time Leyland was a relatively small manufacturer and it was the only way they could stay in business. 

[PhilJ W]

I do also recall a series of card kits, possibly Riko the included a Greenline bus and a Wallis-Stevens road roller. They were produced about 30-40 years ago.

[phil_sutters]

23 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

I do also recall a series of card kits, possibly Riko the included a Greenline bus and a Wallis-Stevens road roller. They were produced about 30-40 years ago.

The copyright notice on the Scammell says 1973.

[fodenway]

23 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

The Chivers van is the 'RAF Leyland'. They got the name because most of them went to the RAF in WW1. After the war finished Leyland realising that the war surplus vehicles would affect their sales purchased as many of them as they could and refurbished them. At the time Leyland was a relatively small manufacturer and it was the only way they could stay in business. 

 I always wondered why the term  "RAF Subsidy" was used  from the early days of the First World War to identify 3-ton lorries purchased on the understanding that they could be requisitioned by the military if necessary. The odd thing being that the RAF (Royal Air Force) as such didn't come into being until 1918 - up to then it had been known as the Royal Flying Corps, or RFC, organised from volunteers from private flying clubs. The vast majority of lorries were requisitioned by the Army, not the RFC.

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, fodenway said:

 I always wondered why the term  "RAF Subsidy" was used  from the early days of the First World War to identify 3-ton lorries purchased on the understanding that they could be requisitioned by the military if necessary. The odd thing being that the RAF (Royal Air Force) as such didn't come into being until 1918 - up to then it had been known as the Royal Flying Corps, or RFC, organised from volunteers from private flying clubs. The vast majority of lorries were requisitioned by the Army, not the RFC.

The light Crossley tenders were also referred to as 'RAF Crossley's' although they pre-dated the formation of the RAF. That was because often a single make of vehicle was allocated to a specific army corps and the Crossley's were allocated to the RFC so in the same way the Leylands were also allocated to the RFC. I can't lay my hands on the information at present but Leyland and AEC provided the majority of trucks used by British forces in WW1 with AEC slightly ahead.

[phil_sutters]

Other makes were also available ..........Dennis, Thorneycroft & LGOC ............. and can be had in 1/76th from WD Models of Bangor ..................... http://www.wdmodels.com/page5.html 

No connection, but a very satisfied customer.

Edited July 17, 2022 by phil_sutters

[fodenway]

.....none of which explains why "RAF", when no such organisation existed at the time - "WO" (for War Office") or "WD"  perhaps would have been more obvious choices of terminology.

[PhilJ W]

It may well have been a sales gimmick, describing them or associating them with the newest branch of the armed forces to imply that they are the latest technology.

[fodenway]

4 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

It may well have been a sales gimmick, describing them or associating them with the newest branch of the armed forces to imply that they are the latest technology.

My point being that the RAF didn't come into being until at least three years after the RAF subsidy scheme started!

[PhilJ W]

20 minutes ago, fodenway said:

My point being that the RAF didn't come into being until at least three years after the RAF subsidy scheme started!

But the vehicles concerned were not subsidy scheme vehicles. They and many other vehicles were built to military specifications after war commenced and were never civilian vehicles until they were demobbed after the war.

[phil_sutters]

It seems that the term 'RAF Leyland' was used as a marketing reference, when, after the war, Leyland bought back large numbers of  ‘WO Subsidy Class A Type 5000’ , refurbished them and sold them over the next ten years or so. In that way they reduced the potential glut of ex-military trucks which could have flooded the market and reduced the sales of their newer models. See this article for more info. https://www.keymilitary.com/article/worthwhile-subsidy

Nicknames and shorthand versions of product names often only come into use well after the product first appears. Often they are created by users rather than manufacturers.

Edited July 18, 2022 by phil_sutters

[fodenway]

Stirred on by this debate, I've been researching the subject in more depth - which perhaps I should have done earlier!. Various sources give differing accounts, but it seems that some kind of subsidy scheme was suggested as early as 1903, following the War Office Trials of 1901. According to most sources, the specifications for various classes of vehicle had been laid down by 1911, the idea being that if a civilian operator bought these vehicles, they would be paid a sum of money at intervals providing that the vehicles were maintained to a specified schedule and standard, and would be handed over to the military if needed. It seems that the term "RAF Subsidy" was never an official term, being applied either by Leyland (referring to their own reconditioned ex-military lorries), or by others unknown in later years - again, accounts differ depending on source.

[Barclay]

Only slightly off-thread, the Wild Swan book 'The Slough Estates Railway' tells how a gigantic facility was created to recover damaged trucks from the battlefields and refurbish them for sale. This continued until about 1924 when the supply finally dried up and the industrial estate was developed. As @PhilJ W says all of this must have had a significant impact on the sale of new lorries in the early 20's.

[Fat Controller]

58 minutes ago, Barclay said:

Only slightly off-thread, the Wild Swan book 'The Slough Estates Railway' tells how a gigantic facility was created to recover damaged trucks from the battlefields and refurbish them for sale. This continued until about 1924 when the supply finally dried up and the industrial estate was developed. As @PhilJ W says all of this must have had a significant impact on the sale of new lorries in the early 20's.

My grand-father was a lorry-driver during WW!. He used to tell of a comrade of his, who bought a lorry from Slough, and converted it to a 'charabanc' to run a bus service around the Forest of Dean; this was to become 'Red and White'. Grandad took another route, and worked as a chauffeur until the 1950s.