Where did the Gas Turbine GT3 run in the early 1960s?

[Tallpaul69]

Hi All,

I have seen a photo of the GT3 hauling a parcels train through Wendover in the early 1960s.

 

Was this a regular run, and if so what duty was the return?

 

Did this loco also run on the GW&GC through High Wycombe in the same period?

 

Where else and on what duties was it used during 1960-3?

 

Many thanks

Paul

[BrushVeteran]

I only ever saw it emerging from Finchley Road tunnel when I was temporally living back in London during 1961/2 period. I saw it on at least four occasions on parcels workings.

[johnb]

Can't help much but I once saw it running through Pinner station on the Metropolitan. Looked very strange in that brown livery

[cctransuk]

4 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Hi All,

I have seen a photo of the GT3 hauling a parcels train through Wendover in the early 1960s.

 

Was this a regular run, and if so what duty was the return?

 

Did this loco also run on the GW&GC through High Wycombe in the same period?

 

Where else and on what duties was it used during 1960-3?

 

Many thanks

Paul

 

Not sure that the ' parcels train' was exactly that - far more likely to have been a test train composed of spare NPCCS stock.

 

I'm not sure, after all this time, if GT3 ever ran in revenue service  - I think not.

 

CJI.

[The Stationmaster]

55 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Not sure that the ' parcels train' was exactly that - far more likely to have been a test train composed of spare NPCCS stock.

 

I'm not sure, after all this time, if GT3 ever ran in revenue service  - I think not.

 

CJI.

I don't think that ever would have run in revenue service.  it was not owned by BR although they provided a railway for it to run on and things for it to haul on trials and test workings but that would have been it.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

I don't think that ever would have run in revenue service.  it was not owned by BR although they provided a railway for it to run on and things for it to haul on trials and test workings but that would have been it.

There are quite a few photos of it with passenger coaches

One had the reporting mark 1Z79 and it had express passenger disc code. Another with ECS for Marylebone also with XP discs.

 

If ECS shouldn't 1Z79 be 5Z79? Or was it different back then?

[hexagon789]

5 hours ago, melmerby said:

There are quite a few photos of it with passenger coaches

One had the reporting mark 1Z79 and it had express passenger disc code. Another with ECS for Marylebone also with XP discs.

 

If ECS shouldn't 1Z79 be 5Z79? Or was it different back then?

"3" was ECS back when the Train Reporting Number was first implemented and, IIRC, into the 1980s.

 

The first digit is more about according a train priority at the necessary points along its route than a hard and fast means of identifying the train type.

 

"Z" denotes a special working, regardless of train class. Railtours are frequently coded 1Zxx.

[pH]

Some information on the routes GT3 ran on, including a picture of it on Dillicar troughs:
 

https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/english-electric-gt3-gas-turbine-history

[cctransuk]

10 hours ago, melmerby said:

There are quite a few photos of it with passenger coaches

 

Agreed - but I've never seen a shred of evidence that GT3 hauled a revenue train.

 

CJI.

[The Stationmaster]

11 hours ago, melmerby said:

There are quite a few photos of it with passenger coaches

One had the reporting mark 1Z79 and it had express passenger disc code. Another with ECS for Marylebone also with XP discs.

 

If ECS shouldn't 1Z79 be 5Z79? Or was it different back then?

Yes but with masses of spare coaches lying around all over the place back then it was simple matter to put together a train of empties for test runs.  The fact that a train is conveying coaches doesn't mean that it's a passenger train.  Class 1 would have just about seen part of the loco's final year on test running and it would have sometimes run as a Class 1 for regulating reasons on certain test runs - Class 1 did not necessarily mean that it was a passenger train.

[rodent279]

On 27/07/2022 at 18:18, BrushVeteran said:

I only ever saw it emerging from Finchley Road tunnel when I was temporally living back in London during 1961/2 period. I saw it on at least four occasions on parcels workings.

 

22 hours ago, johnb said:

Can't help much but I once saw it running through Pinner station on the Metropolitan. Looked very strange in that brown livery

I'm fascinated to know what it sounded like?

[TheSignalEngineer]

20 hours ago, melmerby said:

 

If ECS shouldn't 1Z79 be 5Z79? Or was it different back then?

When I was working around Crewe in the Crewe Works test train, usually for EE locos from Vulcan Foundry, was 1T60. It was normally booked to run in express passenger timings and regulated accordingly.  A link to Rail-online for a picture someone took outside our window when I worked there.

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p642814889/h14210285

[TravisM]

2 hours ago, rodent279 said:

 

I'm fascinated to know what it sounded like?

Stand close to a early jet liner at full bore, such as a B707, VC10, DH Trident and prepare to have the wax removed from your ears.  Now you have some idea.

[KeithMacdonald]

One of a kind...

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Stand close to a early jet liner at full bore, such as a B707, VC10, DH Trident and prepare to have the wax removed from your ears.  Now you have some idea.

But GT3 didn't have jet pipe at the back end of the turbines so it wouldn't sound the same as a jet aircraft turbine.

 

Probably more akin to something like this -

 

 

 

or this

 

[Tallpaul69]

Hi Everyone,

Lacking any firm information that will go contrary to this idea, I plan to run my GT3 (when it arrives!) on my GW & GC Layout with two or three grubby NPC vehicles and an odd BSK passenger brake as a test train in any slot in my timetable that takes my fancy. I might even as a talking point run it tender first!

Best regards

Paul

Edited July 29, 2022 by Tallpaul69
mistype!!

[johnb]

23 hours ago, rodent279 said:

 

I'm fascinated to know what it sounded like?

Cannot recall how it sounded unfortunately. I was at street level and the loco up on the bridge immedaitely to the north of Pinner station, it wasn't moving all that fast.

[MyRule1]

23 hours ago, rodent279 said:

 

I'm fascinated to know what it sounded like?

Just a wild idea but would it have sounded like the APT-E? That had gas turbine engines.

[TravisM]

8 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

But GT3 didn't have jet pipe at the back end of the turbines so it wouldn't sound the same as a jet aircraft turbine.

It may have done but from some of my ex LT Neasden depot mates who were there in the early 60’s, it was LOUD 

[TravisM]

24 minutes ago, MyRule1 said:

Just a wild idea but would it have sounded like the APT-E? That had gas turbine engines.

It had four smaller gas turbines in each power car and I believe BR was aware of the impact of noise, so tried to keep it out of the built up environment’s.

 

Remember that Union Pacific we’re huge advocate’s of gas turbine technology but kept them out in the barren wasteland’s of the mid-west because of the noise.  Another reason they ran with 2-3 diesel units behind, was as they approached big cities, they shut the turbine down and ran in on the diesel to avoid a fine for breaking that city’s noise abatement limits.